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Fifty years of progress (?)
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Sep 19, 2019 21:33:30   #
RichinSeattle
 
rehess wrote:
Before I moved from film to digital, I had a professional scan some of my Kodachrome 25 slides, and concluded that 6mp would give me as much sharpness as I had been getting, so I consider everything past that as being bonus.


Kodachrome was essentially grainless, and rich in dynamic range and color density. But, the drawback was shooting at ASA (ISO) 25, with all the dangers that low shutter speed and wide apertures bring to "sharpness."

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Sep 19, 2019 21:43:03   #
rehess Loc: South Bend, Indiana, USA
 
RichinSeattle wrote:
Kodachrome was essentially grainless, and rich in dynamic range and color density. But, the drawback was shooting at ASA (ISO) 25, with all the dangers that low shutter speed and wide apertures bring to "sharpness."

I was, and am, a very steady photographer. Most of these photos were things like railroad cars with lettering of varying sizes that allowed me to watch for any artifacts of motion. I am quite sure I was getting all the sharpness there was to be had from that film. Later, I used the same lens on my digital camera, and discovered how much additional sharpness was available from 16mp. We really have made progress in the past fifty years.

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Sep 19, 2019 21:45:38   #
dandi Loc: near Seattle, WA
 
RichinSeattle wrote:
It's on the east side of Lake City Way, just south of 125th st. (in the heart of Lake City). They do film processing, printing and/or scanning, as well. I just bought an immaculate, 50 year-old Nikkor 35-70 MM, f/3.5 macro lens there for $60.


Thank you, I don't go there often, usually I go to Kenmore Camera, it's another good store.

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Sep 20, 2019 06:38:19   #
chippy65 Loc: Cambridge
 
perhaps the most telling difference is that in the case of the film camera the captured image will be what the camera recorded, modified a little

by the photographer's skill,perhaps some use of filters. Darkroom manipulation in the case of prints........ "As Is" in the case of slides.

Digital images sometimes seem to have been "tweaked" to within an inch of their lives and can appear to be unrealistic

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Sep 20, 2019 08:10:05   #
jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY
 
captivecookie wrote:
Sooo.... are we going to see some side by side comparisons?


Unlike digital, film requires developing - and patience.

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Sep 20, 2019 08:12:27   #
jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY
 
RichinSeattle wrote:
...I shot this with an ancient Kodak "EasyShare" point-and-shoot, hence the low res.


I have an EasyShare around here somewhere. It was my wife's camera, and it's very good for what it does. I also have the little Kodak printer that uses colored film to make 4 x 6" prints.

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Sep 20, 2019 08:19:37   #
rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona
 
I still shoot film on a regular basis. It's very difficult to try to do a head to head comparison of digital and film. Though similar, they are two different genres.
--Bob

RichinSeattle wrote:
I bought my first "real" camera in 1969, when I entered the Air Force and suddenly had a bit of $$$. I just bought the D850 in May. I cleaned up my F (The light meter still works!), bought some film and batteries at a local shop that deals only in film cams (good luck with that), and am excited to do some comparison shooting.

Since these are my only two working "real" cameras, I shot this with an ancient Kodak "EasyShare" point-and-shoot, hence the low res.
I bought my first "real" camera in 1969,... (show quote)

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Sep 20, 2019 08:42:21   #
captivecookie Loc: Washington state
 
Yep, I know that film and digital are entirely different in almost every respect. Im one of those ancient chaps who discovered photography way back before digital showed up. When I think of a comparison, I guess my mind conceives not of identical images at same shutter speeds and aperture and other settings, but a couple pictures to show, in general, the best possible in each format given controlled efforts. It's more of a general interest comparison than a scientific comparison I was thinking of.

When digital came along, it was a big surprise for me. I wonder what other big surprises or paradigm shifts await us.

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Sep 20, 2019 08:46:55   #
rmorrison1116 Loc: Near Valley Forge, Pennsylvania
 
RichinSeattle wrote:
For God's sake, lighten up. I wasn't looking for an argument; that's why I put "real" in quotes. I love that little Kodak, and the Nikon Coolpix I also used when converting to digital. I was simply making an excuse for the absence of sharpness in the shot I posted.


I'm not the one who put real in quotes. I'm not the one who stated you have only two real cameras. I'm not looking for an argument either so why don't you lighten up yourself. I was simply adding to the conversation by establishing the reason for my question, then asking the question. As for the reason you state for putting real in quotes, really?! By putting real in quotes you put emphasis on real, as if your other camera is not a real camera, thus adding another dimension to the conversation. Obviously your little Kodak is a real camera albeit an older more technologically challenged one, but real none the less. You already offered a valid reason for the lack of sharpness; the much older digital camera.

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Sep 20, 2019 09:07:56   #
knoxworks Loc: Western Mass.
 
I love my digital Canon and f2.8 Canon lens, but I'm resurrecting my Minolta SRT-101 and 201 film cameras. Someone said "but you'll have to pay to have it developed." I replied that I had already invested in lenses. (Mainly Minolta primes, but a couple of Sigmas and one Vivitar zoom in the mix.) I'm fortunate that there's superb photo lab in a nearby city and a camera store close to me that picks up and delivers from there twice a week. Long live film!
P.S. The battery in the Minoltas only powers the meter, so if it dies I can still take photographs.

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Sep 20, 2019 09:15:08   #
rehess Loc: South Bend, Indiana, USA
 
captivecookie wrote:
Yep, I know that film and digital are entirely different in almost every respect. Im one of those ancient chaps who discovered photography way back before digital showed up. When I think of a comparison, I guess my mind conceives not of identical images at same shutter speeds and aperture and other settings, but a couple pictures to show, in general, the best possible in each format given controlled efforts. It's more of a general interest comparison than a scientific comparison I was thinking of.

When digital came along, it was a big surprise for me. I wonder what other big surprises or paradigm shifts await us.
Yep, I know that film and digital are entirely dif... (show quote)

To my way of thinking, most photography is the same. I use(d) same basic methods with my Kodak box cameras, my later film camers, my digital cameras, and my smart phone.

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Sep 20, 2019 10:15:51   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
bleirer wrote:
Maybe if you kept the whole process analog including the printing paper. It sounds romantic, but If you scan the film and publish a jpeg to be viewed on a screen, it's now the same 255 gradations of tone with the same curve as any other digital image.


The best digital output is done on high-end, 8- to 12-color inkjet printers, using pigment-based inks and specially coated archival inkjet papers. Printing with a direct connection to a computer running Lightroom, the operator can tweak the raw-file-to-print conversions on a 10-bit or better monitor, keeping everything in the ProPhoto RGB color space until the final conversion to the printer/paper/ink profile.

Using that setup, it's possible to create both black-and-white and color prints that surpass just about anything we can achieve with film. The learning curve IS substantial, and the experience curve is substantial, as well, just as it was with film. But the precision and repeatability and predictability of results are much improved.

To each his own. Film or digital, the preference boils down to experience, knowledge, end-use applications, and availability of equipment. In the end, what truly matters is the content of the image... its message, the emotion conveyed, the history recorded. Only we who are photographers "get off on" a particular technology's quality. Consumers of our images don't care what we used to produce them.

I, too, started in the late '60s. I gave up film in 2005. In the previous five years, I had just led the development of digital production departments in a major pro portrait lab, as we transferred all our processes from film/optical printing to full digital processes. The improvements in quality and consistency and waste reduction were palpable. But the FLEXIBILITY and SPEED and MULTI-TASKING natures of digital processes were the key features for us.

I agree with Nicholas Negroponte, at MIT Media Lab. The bits of computer data beat the atoms of film in so many ways, the switch is welcome. Of course, it has also been disruptive of many industries. The congruence of media technologies — radio, audio, and telephonics; video and photography; design, text, and graphics; plus the Internet and social media — has created a digital revolution centered around computers, tablets, and smartphones.

Left in its wake are newspapers, AM/FM radios, broadcast TVs, film cameras, landlines, vinyl records and cassette tapes, movie theaters... All of which are still around in dedicated physical forms, as small shadows of their former selves.

Progress? Yeah, but it is still photography (etc.). I still have my Nikon FTn and a few lenses, too. But the camera is in a drawer, and my son uses the primes on his mirrorless camera, via an adapter. I've moved on to mirrorless gear, too... plus an iPhone, of course.

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Sep 20, 2019 10:59:48   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
rmorrison1116 wrote:
So what you're saying is the Kodak isn't a real camera and the picture isn't a real photograph? Please explain what constitutes a real camera?!


Quit being a jerk.

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Sep 20, 2019 13:32:48   #
Carnpo Loc: North Carolina
 
Great! In another 50yrs that Nikon F will still work. It probably needs new light seals and mirror foam. Try Garry’s Camera Repair. Did a nice job on my Nikkormat.

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Sep 20, 2019 13:43:01   #
RichinSeattle
 
Carnpo wrote:
Great! In another 50yrs that Nikon F will still work. It probably needs new light seals and mirror foam. Try Garry’s Camera Repair. Did a nice job on my Nikkormat.


In 50 years, my grandkids (should I be fortunate enough to have any) will haul that thing off the shelf and laugh at what grandpa used to make pictures. Once I finish playing with it, it'll be a museum piece - or junk.

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