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Topaz Sharpen AI
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Sep 20, 2019 14:24:04   #
Doc Barry Loc: Huntsville, Alabama USA
 
rlv567 wrote:
I just received the email touting Topaz Sharpen AI, so again downloaded the trial. I have no direct comparison with previous iterations, but it still is grievously slow! Three trial photos were enough for me. All were CR2 at from 22 to 29 MB. I tried both manual and automatic adjustment with the first – manual gave slightly better results, but took 25 minutes to save, whereas automatic took 5 minutes to save. On the other two files I used only the automatic program suggested corrections, and both took just over 5 minutes to save (while a lot of processing was going on). All 4 were saved as highest quality jpeg files.

The program does sharpen a bit – BUT – it also changes the colors a lot and darkens (fog-like) the image considerably. In addition, and contrary to that which they claim, it introduces some noise – not a lot, but it’s visible in both very dark and very light areas at 100%.

My computer has a 3.6 MHz (at normal speed) processor, 16 GB RAM and a video card with 2 GB RAM – not their suggestion for optimum speed, but not at the low end, either.

In summation, I do not intend to waste any more time with Topaz!

Loren – in Beautiful Baguio City
I just received the email touting Topaz Sharpen AI... (show quote)


You have a problem somewhere in your system. I don’t observe any such behavior.

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Sep 20, 2019 14:52:24   #
DanielJDLM
 
I agree...have been using the software on a trial basis for several days, and it is not that slow, and does an amazing job in my humble opinion.

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Sep 20, 2019 15:25:23   #
cascoly Loc: seattle
 
jlg1000 wrote:


. technically, the entropy (chaos) of the resulting sampled data is higher. Because of the Second Law of Thermodynamics, any process can only *increase* the entropy of a closed system. A picture IS a closed system, so to reduce the entropy on some details, the process can only increase on the overall picture.

..


wrong application of 2nd law - it's not a closed system once you add the ai software - i ve been using it for several months and have not found it adding elements not in the originals

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Sep 20, 2019 15:47:21   #
Screamin Scott Loc: Marshfield Wi, Baltimore Md, now Dallas Ga
 
Download the trial and I’m not impressed. Granted, I only tried it on one image, but I saw no appreciable improvement that corresponds to the money asked for.

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Sep 20, 2019 18:55:37   #
Ednsb Loc: Santa Barbara
 
Topaz A I solutions all seem to be very graphics card dependent. I have a 2011 imac with graphics done by the main processor so im definitely at the bottom range. I tested the previous version of Topaz Sharpen and it was unusable on my computer. I downed the new version yesterday and while not fast it worked. But and this is the big one I ran the same images thru on1 (2019 and 2020 beta) and I couldn’t seen any specific advantage to Topaz so even at $50 I already own a solution that works as well.

I will give Topaz Labs a bit of a backhanded compliment - after releasing 11 updates to Topaz 2 (release not beta) it finally works for the most part. Compare that to on1 2020 BETA which worked right out of the box with no problems and 2 times faster on my computer with 2019. I like TS2 for the artistic presets it does but I've given up on the rest of their software until I buy my next super computer.

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Sep 20, 2019 20:23:57   #
tomcat
 
Howard5252 wrote:
The problem of "Slow" has been hashed out on this site. Topaz talks about the minimum requirements needed and the bottom line is, in non technical terms, you need a "Kick ass" computer to get results quickly.
Just look at the range of comments - mine included; some people "Tested" it and were disappointed to the point of never using Topaz products again. Others, myself included, think the program is really quite good. Perhaps, some day the program's speed will increase but until that time be aware that it's your computer that is setting the slow pace, not the program. As for results ... if SHARPEN doesn't appear to do very much, try STABILIZE. Also, don't push the sliders to their max, it isn't necessary.
The problem of "Slow" has been hashed ou... (show quote)


I mostly agree with Howard's points. My computer is a 2011 iMac desktop, maxed out with 32 gigs of RAM. I disable my video card for LR and whether it speeds up Topaz I don't know. But this I do know that Topaz runs great on my 8-year old Mac. The processor is a 3.4 GHz Intel Core i7. The video card (currently disabled) is an AMD Radeon HD 6970M 1024 MB. So is it "kick-ass"---not sure, but it is a Mac and it does run fast, even for it's age. So if you are having a problem with Topaz, don't blame the program--either upgrade or quit griping!!

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Sep 20, 2019 20:31:44   #
tomcat
 
mwsilvers wrote:
I tried it and It's very effective, but doesn't doesn't have a whole lot of functionality for that price. Still, there is a free download so you can see if it meets your needs. I don't need it because I shoot and process 100% in raw. If you are a JPEG shooter it might be worth it to you.


I shoot 100% in raw also, but I have not found raw to be an advantage with a slightly OOF image. However, Topaz Sharpen AI can restore the sharpness and the focus for those images. I never discard any images that are OOF now because a lot of them are rescuable. So I am puzzled somewhat by the way that you phrased your comment that when you shoot in raw you don't see the need to use Sharpen AI. Am I missing something about raw files?

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Sep 20, 2019 21:02:10   #
mwsilvers Loc: Central New Jersey
 
tomcat wrote:
I shoot 100% in raw also, but I have not found raw to be an advantage with a slightly OOF image. However, Topaz Sharpen AI can restore the sharpness and the focus for those images. I never discard any images that are OOF now because a lot of them are rescuable. So I am puzzled somewhat by the way that you phrased your comment that when you shoot in raw you don't see the need to use Sharpen AI. Am I missing something about raw files?

Based on my extensive use of it during the trial period I found it was very effective at fixing images that lacked significant sharpness and were even a bit OOF. However, for images that are shot with good lenses known for their sharpness and using proper technique when shooting, I found that for those images there was no advantage applying sharpening via topaz compared to the excellent built in sharpening of DXO Photolab Elite, my raw converter of choice.

For fixing very soft images resulting from mediocre lenses, poor technique, or the occasional bad shot when we mess up, Topaz was remarkably good at sharpening those images and rendering them usable. But, the number of images I shoot that are extremely OOF or are extremely soft that would be better served by Topaz are few and far between. As a result I can get equally good results with my images applying sharpening directly against my raw files in Photolab and cannot justify the high expense for this very limited functionality program.

For those who have a difficult time shooting images that are not soft, the tool is highly recommended. For the rest of us, not so much. I don't want or need software for a one in one hundred grossly out of focus shot. It won't turn a badly OOF image into a great one, it will just make it more useable.

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Sep 20, 2019 21:41:26   #
tomcat
 
mwsilvers wrote:
Based on my extensive use of it during the trial period I found it was very effective at fixing images that lacked significant sharpness and were even a bit OOF. However, for images that are shot with good lenses known for their sharpness and using proper technique when shooting, I found that for those images there was no advantage applying sharpening via topaz compared to the excellent built in sharpening of DXO Photolab Elite, my raw converter of choice.

For fixing very soft images resulting from mediocre lenses, poor technique, or the occasional bad shot when we all occasionally mess up, Topaz was remarkably good at sharpening those images and rendering them usable. But, the number of images I shoot that are extremely OOF or are extremely soft that would be better served by Topaz are few and far between. As a result I can get equally good results with my images applying sharpening directly against my raw files in Photolab.

For those who have a difficult time shooting images that are not soft, the tool is highly recommended. For the rest of us, not so much. I don't want or need software for a one in one hundred grossly out of focus shot. It won't turn a badly OOF image into a great one, it will just make it more useable.
Based on my extensive use of it during the trial p... (show quote)


Good explanation. I was wondering if you had some "magic" raw processor that fixed everything. I shoot a ton of high school sports. Outdoors I shoot a D500 with Nikon's 70-200mm VR II lens. Indoors, due to the really poor lighting, I have to shoot with a D3s with Sigma Art 135mm lens at f/1.8 and Nikon's 85mm f/1.8 lens. However, given the fact that there are constantly variable subject-to-camera distances and spastic athletic movements, I still get a few OOF images. And adding to this is my 71-year old body that is slowly losing the quickness and anticipation. Outdoors my keeper rate is very high. Indoors, the keeper rate is a lot less, just due to the quicker pace of volleyball and basketball movements. Topaz Sharpen AI has helped the keeper rate go up with adding a touch of sharpness back to those slightly OOF images.

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Sep 20, 2019 22:01:45   #
mwsilvers Loc: Central New Jersey
 
tomcat wrote:
Good explanation. I was wondering if you had some "magic" raw processor that fixed everything. I shoot a ton of high school sports. Outdoors I shoot a D500 with Nikon's 70-200mm VR II lens. Indoors, due to the really poor lighting, I have to shoot with a D3s with Sigma Art 135mm lens at f/1.8 and Nikon's 85mm f/1.8 lens. However, given the fact that there are constantly variable subject-to-camera distances and spastic athletic movements, I still get a few OOF images. And adding to this is my 71-year old body that is slowly losing the quickness and anticipation. Outdoors my keeper rate is very high. Indoors, the keeper rate is a lot less, just due to the quicker pace of volleyball and basketball movements. Topaz Sharpen AI has helped the keeper rate go up with adding a touch of sharpness back to those slightly OOF images.
Good explanation. I was wondering if you had som... (show quote)


Please don't misunderstand me, there's nothing wrong with Topaz. The only reason I downloaded it in the first place is because someone online on a different site posted a badly out-of-focus image and asked for assistance. Everyone who saw it indicated that image was not salvageable, so I decided to see what Topaz would do. It was remarkably capable at making an extremely unusable picture much more usable, which was the shooter's goal as this was a special shot and could not be recaptured. But the general IQ was still pretty mediocre. Topaz does one thing, and does it well, however it's fairly pricy based on its limited functionality. Given how infrequently I would need to use it, I can't justify the price.

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Sep 20, 2019 22:14:53   #
tomcat
 
mwsilvers wrote:
Please don't misunderstand me, there's nothing wrong with Topaz. The only reason I downloaded it in the first place is because someone online on a different site posted a badly out-of-focus image and asked for assistance. Everyone who saw it indicated that image was not salvageable, so I decided to see what Topaz would do. It was remarkably capable at making an extremely unusable picture much more usable, which was the shooter's goal as this was a special shot and could not be recaptured. But the general IQ was still pretty mediocre. Topaz does one thing, and does it well, however it's fairly pricy based on its limited functionality. Given how infrequently I would need to use it, I can't justify the price.
Please don't misunderstand me, there's nothing wro... (show quote)


Gotcha! I didn't mean to give you the impression that I was misunderstanding your point with Topaz. I find that I use it a lot more lately than before to add that extra sharpness for the sports shots. For those portraits that I occasionally take, I seldom use it because it adds too much sharpness to an already excellent image. It's another one of those tools that you have to be careful when not to use, especially with men. Take care, tomcat on the prowl......

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Sep 20, 2019 22:52:06   #
rlv567 Loc: Baguio City, Philippines
 
tomcat wrote:
I mostly agree with Howard's points. My computer is a 2011 iMac desktop, maxed out with 32 gigs of RAM. I disable my video card for LR and whether it speeds up Topaz I don't know. But this I do know that Topaz runs great on my 8-year old Mac. The processor is a 3.4 GHz Intel Core i7. The video card (currently disabled) is an AMD Radeon HD 6970M 1024 MB. So is it "kick-ass"---not sure, but it is a Mac and it does run fast, even for it's age. So if you are having a problem with Topaz, don't blame the program--either upgrade or quit griping!!
I mostly agree with Howard's points. My computer... (show quote)


My computer with 3.60 GH, Multi-core, Hyper-threaded processor; 480 GB SSD Drive; 16 GB RAM; NVIDIA Graphics Card w/2 GB RAM is not the most high-powered ever but has proven to be totally capable of running the dozen or more photo-processing programs I have tested in the last year – and at good speed. The computer is NOT responsible for changing colors, GREATLY darkening and introducing noise into processed photos as I and others have found with the Topaz AI product. There were no people in my test pictures, so I did not observe the noted phenomenon of faces being blotched, but what I did observe certainly does not make me doubt that. NO OTHER software I have tested/used makes these changes, and all run at quite acceptable speeds. Even though there was some slight improvement in sharpening (but not appreciably more than in other software), for me the negatives – and only occasional use – certainly are overwhelming.

On another subject, I am a user of ON1 Photo RAW, and find the new ON1 Photo RAW 2020 in all regards to be better than anything else I have used – or tried.

Loren – in Beautiful Baguio City

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Sep 21, 2019 00:47:43   #
JeffDavidson Loc: Originally Detroit Now Los Angeles
 
I have used it successfully many times.

It can be a little slow but seems to run faster as a standalone than it does inside of Photoshop.

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Sep 21, 2019 01:29:36   #
tomcat
 
rlv567 wrote:
My computer with 3.60 GH, Multi-core, Hyper-threaded processor; 480 GB SSD Drive; 16 GB RAM; NVIDIA Graphics Card w/2 GB RAM is not the most high-powered ever but has proven to be totally capable of running the dozen or more photo-processing programs I have tested in the last year – and at good speed. The computer is NOT responsible for changing colors, GREATLY darkening and introducing noise into processed photos as I and others have found with the Topaz AI product. There were no people in my test pictures, so I did not observe the noted phenomenon of faces being blotched, but what I did observe certainly does not make me doubt that. NO OTHER software I have tested/used makes these changes, and all run at quite acceptable speeds. Even though there was some slight improvement in sharpening (but not appreciably more than in other software), for me the negatives – and only occasional use – certainly are overwhelming.

On another subject, I am a user of ON1 Photo RAW, and find the new ON1 Photo RAW 2020 in all regards to be better than anything else I have used – or tried.

Loren – in Beautiful Baguio City
My computer with 3.60 GH, Multi-core, Hyper-thread... (show quote)


I've used Sharpen AI on hundreds of images and I've NEVER seen any darkening, noise added, or blotching of faces as you and others in this thread have described. So if I am NOT seeing it, then it can only be certain combinations of computer specs that are making these flawed results.

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Sep 21, 2019 02:15:32   #
rlv567 Loc: Baguio City, Philippines
 
tomcat wrote:
I've used Sharpen AI on hundreds of images and I've NEVER seen any darkening, noise added, or blotching of faces as you and others in this thread have described. So if I am NOT seeing it, then it can only be certain combinations of computer specs that are making these flawed results.


Even were that to be true, I still would not use it because of marginal/questionable performance vs other mainstream processing programs which work just fine for me. I have few problems; perhaps the program negatively affects only good images, while effecting some degree of correction for the bad ones!

Pick any subject you wish - there never is unanimity of views here!!! One may assess all the known pertinent factors - it seems that there are others of a lesser degree of obviousness - perhaps not recognized at all!!! And that which is of a high level of importance to one may be inconsequential to another!!!

Loren - in Beautiful Baguio City

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