srt101fan wrote:
Joe, I respect your knowledge and willingness to help. We've had an exchange of posts on this Affinity RAW issue and I gained valuable insights from it.
But this is not the first time someone misunderstood your comments regarding what Affinity does with your processed RAW file. I urge you to consider changing the words you use when discussing this issue.
You said: "And most importantly it does not save any of the work you do with a raw file. As soon as you do the raw conversion and transfer the RGB image to the raster editor (must do) all work you did in the Develop module is discarded."
It is too easy to conclude that you mean Affinity just doesn't save any of the adjustments you made in the Develop module ("all work...is discarded"). I think what you mean is that it doesn't save the INDIVIDUAL steps you took to get to the final, developed image that is saved. So the final image has incorporated all your work but you can't go back and tweak any of the individual adjustments.
Am I right?
Joe, I respect your knowledge and willingness to h... (
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Once you go to the Photo persona all the Develop persona settings are no longer available. You cannot go back to the Develop persona and continue where you left off. Most raw developers allow access to your raw edits into perpetuity. Affinity does not. If you go back to an already edited raw image in Affinity you are essentially starting from scratch unless something radical has changed in the current version.
mwsilvers wrote:
Once you go to the Photo persona all the Develop persona settings are no longer available. You cannot go back to the Develop persona and continue where you left off. Most raw developers allow access to your raw edits into perpetuity. Affinity does not. If you go back to an already edited raw image in Affinity you are essentially starting from scratch unless something radical has changed in the current version.
Thanks, we've been over this before and I understand the issue. I was just suggesting that Joe's wording of that issue could be misleading for some.
mffox wrote:
I find RAW processing in Affinity simple and effective. My only other experience is with PSE, which I don't find as effective.
Mark
There is nothing really "wrong" with Affinity's Develop persona! and it will meet the light raw editing needs of most people admirably. But, for many of us who shoot raw regularly, full featured raw editors are an absolute requirement. The raw processing limitations in the Develop persona are very significant compared to almost all other raw processors. A list and explanation of all it's deficits compared with the best available would be too numerous to attempt here.
Ysarex wrote:
My comments apply to Affinity's raw Develop Persona only. This is no Hue, Saturation, Luminance adjustment available in the Develop Persona -- by the time the RGB image is delivered to the Photo Persona it's too late. What's available in the Photo Persona can't make up for the loss prior to raw conversion.
If you open a raw file in Affinity you start in the Develop Persona. Changes you make there are not saved once the file is converted and moved to the Photo Persona. You can save the RGB image and you can reload the RGB image and work on it again but you can't re-open the raw file and pick up where you left off. Every time you re-open the raw file you start from scratch. If you want to test that open any raw file and access the White Balance control. Set a temp value of 5800 and a tint value of 5 (don't worry about what your photo looks like). Click Develop and move to the Photo Persona -- save if you want. Now go back and re-open the original raw file and access the White Balance control. If your work in the Develop module was saved then the values 5800 and 5 will display. If they don't your previous work was discarded.
Highlight reconstruction is a special case where a raw converter will take a raw file with one clipped channel (typically green) and rebuild the missing (clipped) data from data still present in the red and blue channels. Some raw converters do a better job of this than others but most at least attempt it. Affinity does not.
Joe
My comments apply to Affinity's raw Develop Person... (
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Do these comments apply to the recently released update to Affinity?
srt101fan wrote:
Thanks, we've been over this before and I understand the issue. I was just suggesting that Joe's wording of that issue could be misleading for some.
In my opinion his wording was absolutely right on the mark. Once the photo is transferred to the Photo persona the raw edits are discarded and are no longer available. What you are left with is the Photo persona formatted file with the raw edits permanent baked in.
Gene51 wrote:
Google is your friend. One is more likely to get a balanced, unbiased opinion with which to make a better informed decision by using forum responses AND google reviews and responses in other forums. What you "got" is not a full story.
The OP is expecting an essay or consultation or mentoring. What he's gonna get here is the executive summary. The manner in which he's presented his inquiry is what you present to a consultant and pay them to do the research that he obviously is relying on others to do for him. So, in this case, suggesting Google is completely appropriate.
Google is your friend. One is more likely to get a... (
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So, none of the information posted so far is any benefit to the op. Got it.
Wanderer2 wrote:
Do these comments apply to the recently released update to Affinity?
They do. I keep current with Affinity in order to be able to help my students. For someone who makes the choice to use a raster editor and doesn't want to invest in Adobe's licensing Affinity is the best bang for the buck. It's an excellent raster editor at an amazing price. Just use a different raw converter.
Joe
I appreciate everyone responses
I have read and researched and looked at tutorials on these products and more.
I would like to settle on one product and then get into the subtleties of that product. Thus I was looking for gotchas that might not be apparent until down the road.
The Affinity “baked in changes” would be an example.
Perhaps there are more.
Thanks to those who were helpful with their advice and time.
chevman
Loc: Matthews, North Carolina
Gene51 wrote:
Google is your friend. One is more likely to get a balanced, unbiased opinion with which to make a better informed decision by using forum responses AND google reviews and responses in other forums. What you "got" is not a full story.
The OP is expecting an essay or consultation or mentoring. What he's gonna get here is the executive summary. The manner in which he's presented his inquiry is what you present to a consultant and pay them to do the research that he obviously is relying on others to do for him. So, in this case, suggesting Google is completely appropriate.
Google is your friend. One is more likely to get a... (
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This is the best answer and should be observed by all. Thank you, Gene51
I use Image Data Converter because it came w/ my Sony a65 camera. Very satisfied w/the editing from this program but, I do only minimum tweaking.
mwsilvers wrote:
In my opinion his wording was absolutely right on the mark. Once the photo is transferred to the Photo persona the raw edits are discarded and are no longer available. What you are left with is the Photo persona formatted file with the raw edits permanent baked in.
The last thing we need is another semantics argument. But if his wording was "absolutely right on the mark", why has it been misunderstood? And for you to say "the raw edits are discarded" can also be misleading to learners. No, they are not discarded, they are applied to the image and carried forward into the Photo module. In any case, Joe has highlighted an issue that Affinity users should be aware off. But let's not overdo it. The fact that Affinity doesn't save the separate, individual development steps may be a big issue for some but a yawner for others. Many (most?) Affinity users, having completed RAW development, will have no need to go back and redo part of it.
iamimdoc wrote:
Could some of the experienced mavens contrast and compare RAW processing/processors of the following products (maybe just a paragraph or two - not gory detail) on the pros and cons of each (but mainly why a program might be totally unacceptable/unusable/too much trouble)
Nikon NxD
Affinity
Adobe Camera Raw
On1
Raw Therapee
Darktable
Thanks
This is kinda like asking us what's our favorite vegetable, and why.
There are folk here that will pick just one.
There are others that will pick one, then the next, then yet another to finish.
If you want something not too hard, will give you portable skills, and will do most all of what a newbie can think of, I'd suggest PS Elements. What you learn will carry on to Lightroom and Photoshop, if you wish to go that way. Both Nikon softwares and Adobe Camera Raw will work well with it.
Though I do use Elements and the Nikon products, I am gaining an affinity for Affinity ...
srt101fan wrote:
The fact that Affinity doesn't save the separate, individual development steps may be a big issue for some but a yawner for others. Many (most?) Affinity users, having completed RAW development, will have no need to go back and redo part of it.
I agree with your point. As I suggested above, there is nothing wrong with Affinity's Develop persona for most people, particularly those new to raw or who only have light raw editing requirements. But, advanced raw shooters expect more, and They require the power and flexibility of a full featured raw editor to get the best from their raw images. Affinity's inability to retain the edits made to raw images is only one of many very important features it lacks. The raw processing limitations in the Develop persona are very significant. As a raw processor the Develop persona falls well behind the capabilities of Lightroom, Adobe Camera Raw, Capture One Pro, PhotoLab Elite, ON1, and others. A list of all it's deficits compared with the better raw processors, and why they are important, would be extensive. Just because some inexperienced raw shooters may be satisfied with Affinity's Develop persona, despite its limitations, does not make it a competitive raw processor.
mwsilvers wrote:
I agree with your point. As I suggested above, there is nothing wrong with Affinity's Develop persona for most people, particularly those new to raw or who only have light raw editing requirements. But, advanced raw shooters expect more, and They require the power and flexibility of a full featured raw editor to get the best from their raw images. Affinity's inability to retain the edits made to raw images is only one of many very important features it lacks. The raw processing limitations in the Develop persona are very significant. As a raw processor the Develop persona falls well behind the capabilities of Lightroom, Adobe Camera Raw, Capture One Pro, PhotoLab Elite, ON1, and others. A list of all it's deficits compared with the better raw processors, and why they are important, would be extensive. Just because some inexperienced raw shooters may be satisfied with Affinity's Develop persona, despite its limitations, does not make it a competitive raw processor.
I agree with your point. As I suggested above, th... (
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My whole point is that, when we give supposedly helpful advice to learners, we should be clear and concise. We should also give that advice based on an understanding of their situation and needs. Granted, that may be hard to do, given the often sparse and unclear questions.
But we see too much of "you need to buy a Nikon 850", or "Photoshop is the only way to go", or "don't buy a crop sensor camera, you need full frame". There is no recognition that for some less is OK.
I think advice should go beyond an expression of personal preferences and include more "whys" so that learners can make an informed decision....
My 2 cents worth...
srt101fan wrote:
My whole point is that, when we give supposedly helpful advice to learners, we should be clear and concise. We should also give that advice based on an understanding of their situation and needs. Granted, that may be hard to do, given the often sparse and unclear questions.
But we see too much of "you need to buy a Nikon 850", or "Photoshop is the only way to go", or "don't buy a crop sensor camera, you need full frame". There is no recognition that for some less is OK.
I think advice should go beyond an expression of personal preferences and include more "whys" so that learners can make an informed decision....
My 2 cents worth...
My whole point is that, when we give supposedly he... (
show quote)
I agree. Unfortunately people often ask what they think are simple questions but which require complex answers. Simple answers very often are very incomplete, misleading and sometimes just plain wrong when they are dumbed down for the uninitiated.
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