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Aug 11, 2019 10:34:05   #
papakatz45 Loc: South Florida-West Palm Beach
 
bobmcculloch wrote:
I've used and been happy with Canon DPP and the Raw processing in PSP, Bob.



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Aug 11, 2019 10:43:22   #
mwsilvers Loc: Central New Jersey
 
iamimdoc wrote:
Could some of the experienced mavens contrast and compare RAW processing/processors of the following products (maybe just a paragraph or two - not gory detail) on the pros and cons of each (but mainly why a program might be totally unacceptable/unusable/too much trouble)

Nikon NxD
Affinity
Adobe Camera Raw
On1
Raw Therapee
Darktable

Thanks


There are at least several professional reviews for each of these post processing software packages online. I've have used or have demoed all of them except NxD. What you are asking for is pretty unreasonable. Just thinking about, and creating a post with the pros and cons for any one of them would take between 10 and 20 minutes or more. I don't have a couple of hours to do them all. perhaps somebody will be willing to take a stab at it but I doubt it would be very complete review. Since there are so many reviews online I suggest you look at them first and then ask us specific follow-up questions. You've also missed a couple of the better ones. Capture One Pro and DXO PhotoLab. And, you mention Adobe Camera Raw, but not Lightroom or Photoshop.

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Aug 11, 2019 10:44:41   #
chapjohn Loc: Tigard, Oregon
 
As several others have said, Capture One is the best choice. I know many photogs who have quit using Adobe and moved to Capture One.

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Aug 11, 2019 10:57:49   #
mwsilvers Loc: Central New Jersey
 
papakatz45 wrote:
So your suggestion is for people to not look for help on the forum, got it.


In this case it is not unreasonable since what the OP is expecting is over the top. It would take a paragraph or two for each and every one of those software solutions he's listed, not to mention all the ones he hasn't. There are far better and far more complete reviews online than we could ever give him. Adding camera raw really means additionally adding reviews of both Lightroom and Photoshop, in addition to the ones he's listed. And he's completely left out a couple of the best ones available if raw processing is high on this list, Capture One, and Photolab. If you want to do all the work to save him the very easy task of looking on line for this level of detail, feel free

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Aug 11, 2019 11:18:01   #
Wanderer2 Loc: Colorado Rocky Mountains
 
Of your list I have used Affinity, RawTherapee, and darktable, and also LR and PSE. However, my abilities are so limited that I probably shouldn't even comment on this subject, being an old guy who is struggling to learn to use these programs, finding much of it counter-intuitive. However, ignorance has often not prevented me from having an opinion of something. :o)

But FWIW, my preference is Affinity, finding it's learning curve the easiest and it does everything I need, at least up to this point. It doesn't have an organizer like LR does.

<<2. Affinity is "totally unacceptable/unusable" for raw processing. It's a great raster editor and a terrific price but it has multiple raw processing flaws that I consider show stoppers. It does no highlight reconstruction for raw files. It lacks an HSL adjustment option. And most importantly it does not save any of the work you do with a raw file. As soon as you do the raw conversion and transfer the RGB image to the raster editor (must do) all work you did in the Develop module is discarded.>>

I'm not qualified to to debate this view of Affinity and probably don't understand some of it. but I don't believe I have experienced the not saving the work done on a raw file. All I use it for is raw files and it certainly seems to me that it saves the work. I certainly adjust highlights but perhaps that isn't what is meant above by highlight reconstruction. Hue, saturation, and luminance commands are available, albeit as individual commands.

Affinity does have a two week free trial and a one time cost of $50, often on sale for $40, which includes future updates. The easy learning curve, at least compared to many processing programs, even free ones, makes it especially worth trying for someone not already skilled in this area, IMVHO.

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Aug 11, 2019 11:20:16   #
lamiaceae Loc: San Luis Obispo County, CA
 
iamimdoc wrote:
Could some of the experienced mavens contrast and compare RAW processing/processors of the following products (maybe just a paragraph or two - not gory detail) on the pros and cons of each (but mainly why a program might be totally unacceptable/unusable/too much trouble)

Nikon NxD
Affinity
Adobe Camera Raw
On1
Raw Therapee
Darktable

Thanks


I can't compare or contrast what I have not used. I'm only familiar with ACR (w/Ps CS6), and see no reason for me to look beyond ACR.

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Aug 11, 2019 11:34:45   #
photoman43
 
There is no way to answer your question without writing a book and that assumes the writer has indepth knowledge of each product listed. Other variables have to be disclosed: MAC or windows? One monitor or dual monitors; Monitor--high res (4K) or regular?; Price? ; compatible with plug ins like NIK , TOPAZ and other?

If all you want is a basic RAW processor, the free software from Nikon works great--NX-D. And it has Control points in it. And it works well with Nikon View . But it is not as capable as ACR or ON1 or Capture One Pro.

I would add DXO PhotoLabs to the list and Luminar and Topaz Studio, and Topaz Studio 2. .

Joe

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Aug 11, 2019 11:38:39   #
Ysarex Loc: St. Louis
 
Wanderer2 wrote:

I'm not qualified to to debate this view of Affinity and probably don't understand some of it. but I don't believe I have experienced the not saving the work done on a raw file. All I use it for is raw files and it certainly seems to me that it saves the work. I certainly adjust highlights but perhaps that isn't what is meant above by highlight reconstruction. Hue, saturation, and luminance commands are available, albeit as individual commands.


My comments apply to Affinity's raw Develop Persona only. This is no Hue, Saturation, Luminance adjustment available in the Develop Persona -- by the time the RGB image is delivered to the Photo Persona it's too late. What's available in the Photo Persona can't make up for the loss prior to raw conversion.

If you open a raw file in Affinity you start in the Develop Persona. Changes you make there are not saved once the file is converted and moved to the Photo Persona. You can save the RGB image and you can reload the RGB image and work on it again but you can't re-open the raw file and pick up where you left off. Every time you re-open the raw file you start from scratch. If you want to test that open any raw file and access the White Balance control. Set a temp value of 5800 and a tint value of 5 (don't worry about what your photo looks like). Click Develop and move to the Photo Persona -- save if you want. Now go back and re-open the original raw file and access the White Balance control. If your work in the Develop module was saved then the values 5800 and 5 will display. If they don't your previous work was discarded.

Highlight reconstruction is a special case where a raw converter will take a raw file with one clipped channel (typically green) and rebuild the missing (clipped) data from data still present in the red and blue channels. Some raw converters do a better job of this than others but most at least attempt it. Affinity does not.

Joe

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Aug 11, 2019 12:03:49   #
srt101fan
 
Ysarex wrote:
My comments apply to Affinity's raw Develop Persona only. This is no Hue, Saturation, Luminance adjustment available in the Develop Persona -- by the time the RGB image is delivered to the Photo Persona it's too late. What's available in the Photo Persona can't make up for the loss prior to raw conversion.

If you open a raw file in Affinity you start in the Develop Persona. Changes you make there are not saved once the file is converted and moved to the Photo Persona. You can save the RGB image and you can reload the RGB image and work on it again but you can't re-open the raw file and pick up where you left off. Every time you re-open the raw file you start from scratch. If you want to test that open any raw file and access the White Balance control. Set a temp value of 5800 and a tint value of 5 (don't worry about what your photo looks like). Click Develop and move to the Photo Persona -- save if you want. Now go back and re-open the original raw file and access the White Balance control. If your work in the Develop module was saved then the values 5800 and 5 will display. If they don't your previous work was discarded.

Highlight reconstruction is a special case where a raw converter will take a raw file with one clipped channel (typically green) and rebuild the missing (clipped) data from data still present in the red and blue channels. Some raw converters do a better job of this than others but most at least attempt it. Affinity does not.

Joe
My comments apply to Affinity's raw Develop Person... (show quote)


Joe, I respect your knowledge and willingness to help. We've had an exchange of posts on this Affinity RAW issue and I gained valuable insights from it.

But this is not the first time someone misunderstood your comments regarding what Affinity does with your processed RAW file. I urge you to consider changing the words you use when discussing this issue.

You said: "And most importantly it does not save any of the work you do with a raw file. As soon as you do the raw conversion and transfer the RGB image to the raster editor (must do) all work you did in the Develop module is discarded."

It is too easy to conclude that you mean Affinity just doesn't save any of the adjustments you made in the Develop module ("all work...is discarded"). I think what you mean is that it doesn't save the INDIVIDUAL steps you took to get to the final, developed image that is saved. So the final image has incorporated all your work but you can't go back and tweak any of the individual adjustments.

Am I right?

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Aug 11, 2019 12:35:30   #
mffox Loc: Avon, CT
 
I find RAW processing in Affinity simple and effective. My only other experience is with PSE, which I don't find as effective.

Mark

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Aug 11, 2019 12:47:30   #
DirtFarmer Loc: Escaped from the NYC area, back to MA
 
srt101fan wrote:
...It is too easy to conclude that you mean Affinity just doesn't save any of the adjustments you made in the Develop module ("all work...is discarded"). I think what you mean is that it doesn't save the INDIVIDUAL steps you took to get to the final, developed image that is saved. So the final image has incorporated all your work but you can't go back and tweak any of the individual adjustments...


Sounds like the difference between saving the work and saving the history.

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Aug 11, 2019 12:48:10   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
papakatz45 wrote:
So your suggestion is for people to not look for help on the forum, got it.


Google is your friend. One is more likely to get a balanced, unbiased opinion with which to make a better informed decision by using forum responses AND google reviews and responses in other forums. What you "got" is not a full story.

The OP is expecting an essay or consultation or mentoring. What he's gonna get here is the executive summary. The manner in which he's presented his inquiry is what you present to a consultant and pay them to do the research that he obviously is relying on others to do for him. So, in this case, suggesting Google is completely appropriate.

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Aug 11, 2019 12:54:33   #
Ysarex Loc: St. Louis
 
srt101fan wrote:
Joe, I respect your knowledge and willingness to help. We've had an exchange of posts on this Affinity RAW issue and I gained valuable insights from it.

But this is not the first time someone misunderstood your comments regarding what Affinity does with your processed RAW file. I urge you to consider changing the words you use when discussing this issue.

You said: "And most importantly it does not save any of the work you do with a raw file. As soon as you do the raw conversion and transfer the RGB image to the raster editor (must do) all work you did in the Develop module is discarded."

It is too easy to conclude that you mean Affinity just doesn't save any of the adjustments you made in the Develop module ("all work...is discarded"). I think what you mean is that it doesn't save the INDIVIDUAL steps you took to get to the final, developed image that is saved. So the final image has incorporated all your work but you can't go back and tweak any of the individual adjustments.

Am I right?
Joe, I respect your knowledge and willingness to h... (show quote)


You are right. Adjustments you make in the Develop module are incorporated into the creation of the RGB image as they should be. But at that very moment Affinity discards any record of what you just did. And so should you decide in the future to amend the way you did that raw file processing you can't return to a saved version of what you did previously but have to start over from scratch. This is incredibly unique as nearly all other raw conversion software does save your work.

Joe

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Aug 11, 2019 12:58:26   #
Ysarex Loc: St. Louis
 
DirtFarmer wrote:
Sounds like the difference between saving the work and saving the history.


Raw converters are all parametric editors. When you make an adjustment you're making an entry into a "recipe" list that will be applied at the time of conversion into an RGB image. Standard practice for a raw converter is to save that "recipe" list for future access so that you can pick up where you left off.

Joe

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Aug 11, 2019 13:20:25   #
srt101fan
 
Ysarex wrote:
You are right. Adjustments you make in the Develop module are incorporated into the creation of the RGB image as they should be. But at that very moment Affinity discards any record of what you just did. And so should you decide in the future to amend the way you did that raw file processing you can't return to a saved version of what you did previously but have to start over from scratch. This is incredibly unique as nearly all other raw conversion software does save your work.

Joe


Thank you for clarifying.

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