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Evaluating Beginner DSLRs, and concern over their rumored demise
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Jul 14, 2019 18:35:09   #
Chris T Loc: from England across the pond to New England
 
Bill P wrote:
Some of us weld agree on cars, way way too much touchscreens now. Cell phones? As long as mine makes and receives calls and texts, I'm fine. Computers? Don't know, I used the same PC for somewhere between 25 and 20 tears, upgraded it to handle PS. TV? digital has it's advantages, but faults that we weren't warned about. Certainly all the subchannels are a total waste.


"Faults we weren't warned about", Bill?

Is this to do with digital cameras, or Digital TVs ?

Kinda lost on this one …

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Jul 14, 2019 18:44:47   #
ronpier Loc: Poland Ohio
 
Chris T wrote:
That's a big jump, Ron - from 6MP to 24MP … 4x at one go!!! … My first DSLR was the Canon EOS Rebel T3. Then, I doubled my Res from 12MP to 24MP when I bought my first Nikon - the D3200. Then, I went a little backwards, as I had bought some Tokina lenses on sale, which would not AF with the D3200, so I looked around for something I could afford, and picked up a used D90 (bought with the Battery Grip) and then, had to send it back after a month. Its replacement was a Refurb D7000 with just 16MP. But, that camera has performed flawlessly. However, I did find it a little on the heavy side. I miss that D90, tho' - it has an excellent and very bright and large VF. Neither the D7000, nor the later D7100 I added - seem to be as capable in that department. Anyway - so, I, too - also use different Res sensors - a full half of my dozen use 24MP sensors. Two have 18MP, two have 16MP (+K-50) and the other lone wolf is a 20MP.
And, yes - you're right! They are all very capable cameras, whether they're described as Entry-Level, Advanced/Intermediate or ProSumer. There's not a real lemon in the bunch. The fun is learning all the different ins and outs, and other idiosyncracies, as I keep using them all, side-by-side. Each and every one of them, produces excellent images, at the right time, in the right place, with everything "kosher" ....
That's a big jump, Ron - from 6MP to 24MP … 4x at ... (show quote)


Agreed Chris. If a camera was great years ago it is still great today and produces the same great images. It’s fun to experience a different photo shoot with each camera.

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Jul 14, 2019 18:57:25   #
Chris T Loc: from England across the pond to New England
 
ronpier wrote:
Agreed Chris. If a camera was great years ago it is still great today and produces the same great images. It’s fun to experience a different photo shoot with each camera.


Yes, it is, Ron. But - consistency goes to hell in a hand-basket!

However, I've pretty much narrowed it down to three as my Go-Tos - depending on type of shoot.

My first choice is the Sony a77 II … talk about consistency!!!!

After that, is the Canon EOS Rebel T4i. Not quite so consistent, but most results are pleasing.

Bringing up the rear is the Nikon D5500. Both this and the T4i have Touch-Screens. Maybe, that's why!!!

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Jul 14, 2019 19:06:23   #
Chris T Loc: from England across the pond to New England
 
ronpier wrote:
Agreed Chris. If a camera was great years ago it is still great today and produces the same great images. It’s fun to experience a different photo shoot with each camera.


Yes, you're right, Ron … but, of course - consistency goes to hell in a hand-basket!!!

But, I think I've narrowed it down to three - which are all my Go-Tos - depending on the situation.

First up - is the Sony alpha a77 II … talk about consistency!!!

Next - is my Canon EOS Rebel T4i … not quite so consistent, but the results are always pleasing …

Bringing up the rear - is the Nikon D5500 - both it, and the T4i - have Touch-Screens - why I like them so!

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Jul 14, 2019 19:34:57   #
Retina Loc: Near Charleston,SC
 
Chris T wrote:
That's a big jump, Ron - from 6MP to 24MP … 4x at one go!!! … My first DSLR was the Canon EOS Rebel T3. Then, I doubled my Res from 12MP to 24MP when I bought my first Nikon - the D3200. Then, I went a little backwards, as I had bought some Tokina lenses on sale, which would not AF with the D3200, so I looked around for something I could afford, and picked up a used D90 (bought with the Battery Grip) and then, had to send it back after a month. Its replacement was a Refurb D7000 with just 16MP. But, that camera has performed flawlessly. However, I did find it a little on the heavy side. I miss that D90, tho' - it has an excellent and very bright and large VF. Neither the D7000, nor the later D7100 I added - seem to be as capable in that department. Anyway - so, I, too - also use different Res sensors - a full half of my dozen use 24MP sensors. Two have 18MP, two have 16MP (+K-50) and the other lone wolf is a 20MP.
And, yes - you're right! They are all very capable cameras, whether they're described as Entry-Level, Advanced/Intermediate or ProSumer. There's not a real lemon in the bunch. The fun is learning all the different ins and outs, and other idiosyncracies, as I keep using them all, side-by-side. Each and every one of them, produces excellent images, at the right time, in the right place, with everything "kosher" ....
That's a big jump, Ron - from 6MP to 24MP … 4x at ... (show quote)

This is admittedly not what the OP was seeking, but allow me to ask a question. Is 6 to 24mp not as big a jump as it seems? I see it as 2x, not 4x. Someone else will supply the correct match approach, but I think of resolution in terms of the ability to resolve details, like lines, not the total number of pixels in a given area.

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Jul 14, 2019 19:36:49   #
dwmoar Loc: Oregon, Willamette Valley
 
James R wrote:
-------------------------------------

Being that I have had MANY MANY cameras in my years - (50+) And in the fact that my 5D Mark II just died from the years that I have used it - I would go "mirrorless". Less moving parts mechanically. And, too, there is always a problem with the electronic "stuff" to go wrong.
My old cameras (film) are still working after my 50+ years of use. Particularly this one (Ansco 1941) -- (Which, of course, IS a Mirrorless... :-)

-0-
------------------------------------- br br Being... (show quote)


An original mirror-less indeed

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Jul 14, 2019 19:38:16   #
dwmoar Loc: Oregon, Willamette Valley
 
bwana wrote:
A lot of Canon users in the wild who don't want to step out of their comfort zone to something better!


Something better is subjective. What is better for you might not be better for anyone else.

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Jul 14, 2019 19:39:12   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
rcarol wrote:
"If any manufacturer was foolish enough to exit that space........."

But isn't that exactly what Nikon is doing by dropping the D3XXX and D5XXX line while only retaining the more expensive D7500?


Could the D7500 be price reduced to 500 w/kit lens? It would be amortized by the time the others are dropped, no development costs etc. Just the one production line and parts are all in the production chain. Could easily be profitable if the S mount does not completely shut down the F mount which would be the biggest fear seeing as it is so old and primitive and likely to not be appealing to newcomers.

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Jul 14, 2019 19:55:23   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
Retina wrote:
This is admittedly not what the OP was seeking, but allow me to ask a question. Is 6 to 24mp not as big a jump as it seems? I see it as 2x, not 4x. Someone else will supply the correct match approach, but I think of resolution in terms of the ability to resolve details, like lines, not the total number of pixels in a given area.


I see a large difference between n my 10D (6MP) and my 7D (18MP). Mainly when cropping and then enlarging the 7D allows more cropping. Beyond that the 10D is very good for large enlargements as long as you don't pixel peep.
This (Attached) is with the 6MP 10D with a 20-35mm lens and will make a nice 16X20 and no falling apart at realistic viewing distances.

With 6MP 10D
With 6MP 10D...
(Download)

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Jul 14, 2019 20:17:49   #
Bryanw1
 
Nobody will agree with me, but my advice to someone who seriously wants to learn photography would be to find and old fully manual film camera. Of course studing to learn about how aperture, shutter, ISO, etc. work together is critical. A fully manual camera that is always with you, shooting B&W only for at least a year, and processing and printing it yourself would be really valuable. I think the value of the darkroom is to teach that getting the shot right in the camera saves a lot of time in the darkroom and just develops good habits.

I love technology and use it, but I'm grateful that the basics were all there were when I started. I'm afraid if I were doing it now I would jump into the high-tech stuff too.

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Jul 14, 2019 20:43:59   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
Bryanw1 wrote:
Nobody will agree with me, but my advice to someone who seriously wants to learn photography would be to find and old fully manual film camera. Of course studing to learn about how aperture, shutter, ISO, etc. work together is critical. A fully manual camera that is always with you, shooting B&W only for at least a year, and processing and printing it yourself would be really valuable. I think the value of the darkroom is to teach that getting the shot right in the camera saves a lot of time in the darkroom and just develops good habits.

I love technology and use it, but I'm grateful that the basics were all there were when I started. I'm afraid if I were doing it now I would jump into the high-tech stuff too.
Nobody will agree with me, but my advice to someon... (show quote)


PS most all current digital cameras/lenses have the magic setting called manual. And in that magic setting one sets shutter, aperture, ISO and focus. The most excellent thing about this magic setting on a digital camera is you don't have to blow a roll of film to see the effects of your settings and their relationships so the learning curve is speeded up and you don't have to remember what setting was what after the roll of film is developed and printed where the printer make adjustments to try to salvage under or over exposed photos.
This magic manual setting is absolutely amazing and I am sure if you look into the manual for your camera (Assuming it is a new fangled digital one) there should be directions on how to use it in manual mode you can try.

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Jul 14, 2019 20:47:44   #
Bryanw1
 
Just expressing an opinion, but I see how it is. I'll leave you all to your fun.

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Jul 14, 2019 20:52:32   #
Bill_de Loc: US
 
Bryanw1 wrote:
Just expressing an opinion, but I see how it is. I'll leave you all to your fun.


Now really, what did you expect when you started out with, "Nobody will agree with me ..."?

Architect was just expressing his opinion which fulfilled your prophecy.

---

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Jul 14, 2019 20:54:42   #
ronpier Loc: Poland Ohio
 
Retina wrote:
This is admittedly not what the OP was seeking, but allow me to ask a question. Is 6 to 24mp not as big a jump as it seems? I see it as 2x, not 4x. Someone else will supply the correct match approach, but I think of resolution in terms of the ability to resolve details, like lines, not the total number of pixels in a given area.


I also enjoy viewing the image differences between the old ccd sensor in the d50 and the cmos sensors in the D90 and d3400. They all create wonderful images all unique to themselves. Also shooting at 800 max IS0 compared to 6400 ISO presents challenges to overcome. All part of the fun of working within the limitations of each camera and producing the image desired.

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Jul 14, 2019 21:02:36   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
Bill_de wrote:
Now really, what did you expect when you started out with, "Nobody will agree with me ..."?

Architect was just expressing his opinion which fulfilled your prophecy.

---



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