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Is Canon Making a Mistake with their Emphasis on the Development of the RF L lens line?
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Jul 2, 2019 20:45:06   #
Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.
 
amfoto1 wrote:
Taking your final question first, I am not too worried. The Canon DSLR line is pretty robust and full featured, so it can handle a year or so of neglect while Canon concentrates on getting the R-series camera and lens system "up and running".

However, personally I think Canon made a big mistake coming up with a whole different mount for the R-series. In my opinion, they'd have been better served simply using the EF mount for the mirrorless, so that buyers could use EF lenses they already had directly on the camera. Canon could have implemented all the other mirrorless features of the R-series (and maybe a few more), without changing the mount at all. Then they could have created great new lenses compatible with both the full frame mirrorless and their entire DSLR line. While Canon has done a brilliant job "adding value" to the EF to RF adapters by offering them with a control ring or drop in filters, it would have been so much better - they'd have had a huge, well established pool of potential buyer and would have sold a ton more R-series cameras - if they'd simply used the EF mount on them instead!

The EOS R and RP are wonderful cameras... but IMO would have been even better if they'd had an EF mount fully compatible with every existing EF lens (EF-S in crop-mode, too). The RF lenses are great, too... though wouldn't it be great if they could also be used on, say, a 5D Mark IV or 7D Mark II. Obviously, there would be less need, since most of the RF lenses to date are already represented in the approx. 90 lens EF/EF-S system. Perhaps new, improved versions of EF lenses instead... such as an EF 85mm f/1.2L "III" that could be used on both DSLR and mirrorless, instead of an RF 85mm f/1.2L that can only be used on R-series cameras.

What Canon is really neglecting now appears to be their M-series mirrorless system. They haven't done very well developing anyway, but now with the R-series it's gotten even less attention. It took them five years to make an M-series with a built in viewfinder and they've only developed a total of eight EF-M lenses... which are mostly "consumer grade" zooms, all of which use STM focus drive and are incompatible with both EOS/EF AND R-series/RF-mount cameras. There was so much potential for the APS-C mirrorless. Unlike the R-series, which will never be all that much smaller and lighter than DSLRs, the M-series and their lenses can be quite compact.

Now between the EOS/EF/EF-S, R/RF and M/EF-M Canon has three parallel systems with limited cross-compatibility. I have a nagging feeling something is going to have to give and suspect it's most likely that it will be the M-series/EF-M to get orphaned sometime in the future. I wish it were otherwise, because I still think that system has a ton of potential for someone who truly wants to "downsize" or is looking for a compact camera with great image quality for travel, hiking, etc.
Taking your final question first, I am not too wor... (show quote)


Very interesting Alan, your argument certainly opens a larger market for the RF lenses but aren't the mirrorless cameras supposed to be small? Not that I care about size but it seems that some people do, I bought a battery grip for my Fuji to intentionally make it larger because I felt it to be uncomfortably small. Even so size seems to matter in mirrorless.

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Jul 2, 2019 21:18:08   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
Blurryeyed wrote:
Very interesting Alan, your argument certainly opens a larger market for the RF lenses but aren't the mirrorless cameras supposed to be small? Not that I care about size but it seems that some people do, I bought a battery grip for my Fuji to intentionally make it larger because I felt it to be uncomfortably small. Even so size seems to matter in mirrorless.


I bought a grip for my Fuji too for the same reason...

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Jul 3, 2019 07:05:03   #
SonyBug
 
Blurryeyed wrote:


I guess my question is that with so much emphasis being placed on the RF lenses, where does that leave the Canon faithful who are dedicated to their DSLRs?


It leaves them going to Sony a7III or a9.

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Jul 3, 2019 07:45:39   #
Notorious T.O.D. Loc: Harrisburg, North Carolina
 
I tested the 300 f/2.8 II with and without my 2x Extender III about a week and a half ago. It is a very nice combination. Not all that heavy at a little ver 5 lbs.

Blurryeyed wrote:
The 300? I have the 300 MkII and it is good enough to make me give up my 500 f/4. In my opinion the 300 with a 2X TC is sharper than the 500mm MkI with or without the 1.4X extender.

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Jul 3, 2019 07:47:45   #
Notorious T.O.D. Loc: Harrisburg, North Carolina
 
Smaller is not always an advantage in my opinion... But having options is an advantage...

Blurryeyed wrote:
Very interesting Alan, your argument certainly opens a larger market for the RF lenses but aren't the mirrorless cameras supposed to be small? Not that I care about size but it seems that some people do, I bought a battery grip for my Fuji to intentionally make it larger because I felt it to be uncomfortably small. Even so size seems to matter in mirrorless.

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Jul 3, 2019 08:20:41   #
khorinek
 
Blurryeyed wrote:
Personally I have a Canon R, but I also own several Canon EF L lenses and Sigma EF Art lenses. What I have observed from Canon is that they are rolling out some significant RF lenses that are optically superior to their EF counterparts however at the same time the Canon R has not had near the success that the 5DMkIV has enjoyed, already Canon has dropped the price of the R in what I can only assume is an effort to attract more sales.

The problems I see are several, one is that many photographers are just not ready to make the move to mirrorless especially those who shoot sports action or action in nature because of the focus tracking and momentary loss of the EVF during shooting. The R is not considered to be a professional level camera because of a few missing features such as a second card slot and dials. And lastly the expense of the new RF line, so far only one lens has been produced in the $500 range, one in the $1000 range, and the others are between $2000 and $3000 and we are not even talking about their big Whites yet as they have not been yet produced and probably will be the last lenses they produce in that line because of the tracking problems.

I guess my question is that with so much emphasis being placed on the RF lenses, where does that leave the Canon faithful who are dedicated to their DSLRs?
Personally I have a Canon R, but I also own severa... (show quote)


I bought the RF 24-105 f/4 IS L lens for my EOS RP. I love it! I had the 24-105 f/4 IS L lens years ago that I used on my 5D Mark III, but was disappointed in it, as it was soft from 80mm to 105mm. This new lens is sharp throughout and it has a third programmable ring which I have programmed to change my ISO on the fly. I beieve the RF lenses will eventually come down in price as do all equipment after they have been out a while. In my opinion, I think Canon is trying to step up their game with the new RF lenses. From what I've seen in the reviews, these new lenses all have very good optics.

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Jul 3, 2019 08:38:14   #
Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.
 
khorinek wrote:
I bought the RF 24-105 f/4 IS L lens for my EOS RP. I love it! I had the 24-105 f/4 IS L lens years ago that I used on my 5D Mark III, but was disappointed in it, as it was soft from 80mm to 105mm. This new lens is sharp throughout and it has a third programmable ring which I have programmed to change my ISO on the fly. I beieve the RF lenses will eventually come down in price as do all equipment after they have been out a while. In my opinion, I think Canon is trying to step up their game with the new RF lenses. From what I've seen in the reviews, these new lenses all have very good optics.
I bought the RF 24-105 f/4 IS L lens for my EOS RP... (show quote)


The big question for you as well as myself is are you willing to give up your 5DIV now that you are shooting with the R. I have not had mine long enough to answer that question. I am also curious as to have you bought the adapter with the control ring for your EF lenses and if so how is that working for you?

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Jul 3, 2019 09:07:47   #
khorinek
 
Yes, my 5D Mark IV has been sitting on the shelf for a while now. Both my EOS RP's came with the adapter ring. I use the ring with my 70-200 f/4 and f/2.8 lenses. When I bought the RF 24-105 f/4 lens I didn't need the adapter ring. The ring works very well. Occasionally I use a 1.4 II converter on my 70-200 lenses. It works great with the adapter ring.

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Jul 3, 2019 09:55:43   #
Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.
 
khorinek wrote:
Yes, my 5D Mark IV has been sitting on the shelf for a while now. Both my EOS RP's came with the adapter ring. I use the ring with my 70-200 f/4 and f/2.8 lenses. When I bought the RF 24-105 f/4 lens I didn't need the adapter ring. The ring works very well. Occasionally I use a 1.4 II converter on my 70-200 lenses. It works great with the adapter ring.


I have the simple adapter ring which allows my camera to operate just like my mkIV but I don't have the adapter with the control ring, do you have the adapter with the control ring and how is that working if you do? The reason that I ask is that I have read mixed reviews on it, some like it some turn it off because of inadvertent changes to settings when handling the camera.

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Jul 3, 2019 10:13:47   #
catchlight.. Loc: Wisconsin USA- Halden Norway
 
You are dead on with your comments, and with much of the same thoughts in mind, i last week opted for a 1DX mkii purchase.

If Canon's 1DX mkii is surpassed by a mirrorless version any time soon I will be surprised, and if it happens the price will most likely be double.

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Jul 3, 2019 10:14:34   #
xt2 Loc: British Columbia, Canada
 
Blurryeyed wrote:
Personally I have a Canon R, but I also own several Canon EF L lenses and Sigma EF Art lenses. What I have observed from Canon is that they are rolling out some significant RF lenses that are optically superior to their EF counterparts however at the same time the Canon R has not had near the success that the 5DMkIV has enjoyed, already Canon has dropped the price of the R in what I can only assume is an effort to attract more sales.

The problems I see are several, one is that many photographers are just not ready to make the move to mirrorless especially those who shoot sports action or action in nature because of the focus tracking and momentary loss of the EVF during shooting. The R is not considered to be a professional level camera because of a few missing features such as a second card slot and dials. And lastly the expense of the new RF line, so far only one lens has been produced in the $500 range, one in the $1000 range, and the others are between $2000 and $3000 and we are not even talking about their big Whites yet as they have not been yet produced and probably will be the last lenses they produce in that line because of the tracking problems.

I guess my question is that with so much emphasis being placed on the RF lenses, where does that leave the Canon faithful who are dedicated to their DSLRs?
Personally I have a Canon R, but I also own severa... (show quote)


It leaves Canon followers right where Canon wants them.

Cheers!

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Jul 3, 2019 11:14:12   #
AntonioReyna Loc: Los Angeles, California
 
To me, the attraction of the new Canon mirrorless cameras are their size, quiet shutter and ability to adapt older Canon FD and FL glass. To me, it is a walking around camera and I intend to get the RP with the new 35/1.8 RF lens for a walkaround kit. I am not giving up my Canon DSLR bodies and EF lenses. I also appreciate (I have tried it out) how easy it is to use the EF and EF-S lenses on the mirrorless bodies with the lenses working as well or better than they do on the DSLR bodies. The state of the art is such that there are many cameras that will take great pictures.

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Jul 3, 2019 12:14:23   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
Blurryeyed wrote:
Personally I have a Canon R, but I also own several Canon EF L lenses and Sigma EF Art lenses. What I have observed from Canon is that they are rolling out some significant RF lenses that are optically superior to their EF counterparts however at the same time the Canon R has not had near the success that the 5DMkIV has enjoyed, already Canon has dropped the price of the R in what I can only assume is an effort to attract more sales.

The problems I see are several, one is that many photographers are just not ready to make the move to mirrorless especially those who shoot sports action or action in nature because of the focus tracking and momentary loss of the EVF during shooting. The R is not considered to be a professional level camera because of a few missing features such as a second card slot and dials. And lastly the expense of the new RF line, so far only one lens has been produced in the $500 range, one in the $1000 range, and the others are between $2000 and $3000 and we are not even talking about their big Whites yet as they have not been yet produced and probably will be the last lenses they produce in that line because of the tracking problems.

I guess my question is that with so much emphasis being placed on the RF lenses, where does that leave the Canon faithful who are dedicated to their DSLRs?
Personally I have a Canon R, but I also own severa... (show quote)


Use Canon's adapter to mount EF lenses on the new Canon R bodies.

Buy used lenses. MILLIONS will become available as people transition to mirrorless. Despite adapters for the old lenses, the newer lenses designed for mirrorless systems will sell because they perform better than older lenses.

The market will dictate whether Canon keeps making dSLR systems. My guess is, they will sell reasonably well for a few more, maybe even five or ten more years.

Mirrorless is the future. If I were you, I'd "skate to where the puck is going to be." Canon and Nikon are finally trying to do that in the face of Sony, Fujifilm, Panasonic, and Olympus.

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Jul 3, 2019 13:04:37   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
Blurryeyed wrote:
Personally I have a Canon R, but I also own several Canon EF L lenses and Sigma EF Art lenses. What I have observed from Canon is that they are rolling out some significant RF lenses that are optically superior to their EF counterparts however at the same time the Canon R has not had near the success that the 5DMkIV has enjoyed, already Canon has dropped the price of the R in what I can only assume is an effort to attract more sales.

The problems I see are several, one is that many photographers are just not ready to make the move to mirrorless especially those who shoot sports action or action in nature because of the focus tracking and momentary loss of the EVF during shooting. The R is not considered to be a professional level camera because of a few missing features such as a second card slot and dials. And lastly the expense of the new RF line, so far only one lens has been produced in the $500 range, one in the $1000 range, and the others are between $2000 and $3000 and we are not even talking about their big Whites yet as they have not been yet produced and probably will be the last lenses they produce in that line because of the tracking problems.

I guess my question is that with so much emphasis being placed on the RF lenses, where does that leave the Canon faithful who are dedicated to their DSLRs?
Personally I have a Canon R, but I also own severa... (show quote)


Because when the pro Canon bodies do come in mirrorless there would be cries and complaints of no RF native lenses of a quality to match the bodies.
I am happy with my 7D but when a good IBIS Canon mirrorless is introduced I know all my EF lenses will work perfectly with it.
So which first body or lens?
Canon marketing says have some pro lenses ready for when the pro body comes.
I really don't lose sleep over this issue.

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Jul 3, 2019 13:37:05   #
imagemeister Loc: mid east Florida
 
Canon had to change the mount and redesign lenses ! - mostly because Nikon and every one else did. Even now, Nikon's S series lenses surpass any and all of Canon's R series (resolution ) - and folks, I am NOT a Nikon guy - but that is the reality !
.

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