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Ever have a bad shoot?
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May 14, 2019 13:54:53   #
juan_uy Loc: Uruguay
 
dsmeltz wrote:
That looks like a combo of a slow shutter speed and camera shake.


Agree. It shows 1/40 @47mm

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May 14, 2019 14:02:52   #
Resqu2 Loc: SW Va
 
dsmeltz wrote:
That looks like a combo of a slow shutter speed and camera shake.


Yea looking the the speed your probably right. I’m not sure why it would of choose that slow of a speed. I should of been in manual. I hate to say it but by the time I did this I’d worked most of the day, shot 400 pics at a race under a trash bag in the rain and did 200 shots for graduation and prom. Tried to cram to much in a day.

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May 14, 2019 14:04:30   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
Thank you for an example to investigate in more detail. Although this image version shows several opportunities, do you have the ability to pull the CR2 file into DPP and output a JPG version? The Apple software used to create the 'JPEG' has stripped relevant EOS 5DIV information that could answer your questions about 'where was the camera focusing'?

The EXIF in this image reveals:

1) A shutter at 1/40, far too slow for these two moving people.

2) An aperture at f/4, likely too wide to capture both these two people in sharp focus.

3) Focus mode - unknown, this data has been lost by the Apple processing.

4) Exposure mode - Program.

5) ISO 250.

6) Focal length 47mm.

Preliminary Analysis - too low light for the exposure settings used: shutterspeed, ISO and aperture. It would seem the ISO was selected by the photographer forcing the camera to try to compensate, setting the aperture to the widest possible value, without regard to the situation. More original data from the camera would assist / confirm this analysis.

Corrective actions:

AF drive mode - use 'continuous' focus via the EOS AI SERVO AF, see page 100 of your manual.

AF Area - use Zone AF or Large Zone AF and actively move the position of the AF group around the frame, see pages 104 - 112 of your manual. Seek to focus specifically on the person nearest the camera.

ISO mode - use AUTO or a specific ISO setting high enough to support both the aperture and shutter needed for this (any) situation.

Shutterspeed - shoot in manual to control both shutterspeed and aperture, or use 1/200 to 1/500 for 'event' photography like this situation.

Aperture - research 'depth of field' to understand distance to subject, lens focal length and lens aperture. Assuming these two people needed a DOF three feet wide and you were 10-feet away, f/4 may have worked giving a DOF of 3.3-feet. They were at an angle to the camera and not on the same plane of focus; therefore, using f/6.3 would yield a DOF of 5.5-feet. An AF point / group on the woman, a shutter at 1/200, continuous focus, and aperture at f/5.6 thru f/8 would likely yield a keeper image.

This example shows the need to control both the shutterspeed and aperture, where you could defer ISO to the camera in AUTO-ISO. Manual exposure gives this level of control. You might also choose aperture priority with a few test images at various ISO values until you get the camera consistently to 1/200 or faster. Then, as you work the event, widen or narrow your aperture based on the number and position of the people in the frame / group. You could always just be there at f/8 where your likelihood of success with groups of people will be higher than using f/4.

Again, from an original image file and / or DPP conversion of the CR2, we can dig further into the data available from the EOS camera.

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May 14, 2019 16:05:04   #
TBerwick Loc: Houston, Texas
 
You're correct, pixel peeping doesn't reveal any sharp focus on the image, that I can find. I would have switched to manual focus after a couple of reviews but you might do some work with a focusing target and find if you have an issue. If your other lenses perform properly, then you know where the finger is pointed.

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May 14, 2019 16:45:49   #
Resqu2 Loc: SW Va
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
Thank you for an example to investigate in more detail. Although this image version shows several opportunities, do you have the ability to pull the CR2 file into DPP and output a JPG version? The Apple software used to create the 'JPEG' has stripped relevant EOS 5DIV information that could answer your questions about 'where was the camera focusing'?

The EXIF in this image reveals:

1) A shutter at 1/40, far too slow for these two moving people.

2) An aperture at f/4, likely too wide to capture both these two people in sharp focus.

3) Focus mode - unknown, this data has been lost by the Apple processing.

4) Exposure mode - Program.

5) ISO 250.

6) Focal length 47mm.

Preliminary Analysis - too low light for the exposure settings used: shutterspeed, ISO and aperture. It would seem the ISO was selected by the photographer forcing the camera to try to compensate, setting the aperture to the widest possible value, without regard to the situation. More original data from the camera would assist / confirm this analysis.

Corrective actions:

AF drive mode - use 'continuous' focus via the EOS AI SERVO AF, see page 100 of your manual.

AF Area - use Zone AF or Large Zone AF and actively move the position of the AF group around the frame, see pages 104 - 112 of your manual. Seek to focus specifically on the person nearest the camera.

ISO mode - use AUTO or a specific ISO setting high enough to support both the aperture and shutter needed for this (any) situation.

Shutterspeed - shoot in manual to control both shutterspeed and aperture, or use 1/200 to 1/500 for 'event' photography like this situation.

Aperture - research 'depth of field' to understand distance to subject, lens focal length and lens aperture. Assuming these two people needed a DOF three feet wide and you were 10-feet away, f/4 may have worked giving a DOF of 3.3-feet. They were at an angle to the camera and not on the same plane of focus; therefore, using f/6.3 would yield a DOF of 5.5-feet. An AF point / group on the woman, a shutter at 1/200, continuous focus, and aperture at f/5.6 thru f/8 would likely yield a keeper image.

This example shows the need to control both the shutterspeed and aperture, where you could defer ISO to the camera in AUTO-ISO. Manual exposure gives this level of control. You might also choose aperture priority with a few test images at various ISO values until you get the camera consistently to 1/200 or faster. Then, as you work the event, widen or narrow your aperture based on the number and position of the people in the frame / group. You could always just be there at f/8 where your likelihood of success with groups of people will be higher than using f/4.

Again, from an original image file and / or DPP conversion of the CR2, we can dig further into the data available from the EOS camera.
Thank you for an example to investigate in more de... (show quote)


I had the raw files until early this morning but formatted the card when I put it back in my camera, did not know Apple destroys our data but do now. I did go look at my camera and it stays on auto iso so the P setting choose that. Im wondering now that since you confirmed that I was in P and I’m set up for dual BBF that I simply forgot the hit either back button to focus as I was going back and forth between A & P. As you know in A you don’t use BBF, not on my 5D anyways. Since nothing in the image was in focus this is the theory I’m going to go with. Lots of lessons learned on this inside shoot. I looked at some of the other shots and some were perfect but they were of the decor and a few non moving subjects. I feel pretty stupid now but I swear I was wore out because of several factors. Thanks for all the great info guys, this place is a true blessing.

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May 14, 2019 16:49:19   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
Resqu2 wrote:
I had the raw files until early this morning but formatted the card when I put it back in my camera, did not know Apple destroys our data but do now. I did go look at my camera and it stays on auto iso so the P setting choose that. Im wondering now that since you confirmed that I was in P and I’m set up for dual BBF that I simply forgot the hit either back button to focus as I was going back and forth between A & P. As you know in A you don’t use BBF, not on my 5D anyways. Since nothing in the image was in focus this is the theory I’m going to go with. Lots of lessons learned on this inside shoot. I looked at some of the other shots and some were perfect but they were of the decor and a few non moving subjects. I feel pretty stupid now but I swear I was wore out because of several factors. Thanks for all the great info guys, this place is a true blessing.
I had the raw files until early this morning but f... (show quote)


You can use BBF wherever you define it, including Aperture priority on your 5DIV. No worries on errors, we all make them ... Translating the frustration into learning is the best response.

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May 14, 2019 18:41:04   #
TBerwick Loc: Houston, Texas
 
dsmeltz wrote:
That looks like a combo of a slow shutter speed and camera shake.


I agree as I hadn't read the EXIF data. 1/40th of a second is pretty slow and requires a rock steady grip on the camera to keep it sharp.

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May 15, 2019 05:58:02   #
paulrph1 Loc: Washington, Utah
 
Resqu2 wrote:
I do most all my photography outside, natural light stuff and always with my 70-200 f/2.8 lens. Saturday morning I shot a 5k race and it turned out great, all the pics were spot on, seems like my 5D couldn’t miss a shot. The gal that put the race together ask if I was available later that day to shoot a gender reveal so I though why not. Got there when ask and the room was basically white, like everything was white from the walls to the ceiling to the tables and decorations. The room was full of Hugh windows so tons of light on top of the white. My go to lens was to long of course so I grabbed my 24-105 f/4 lens and it seems like the shots with more than one person in it just wasn’t in focus. I tried several different settings and even tried auto but was never happy with a single shot. I’d like to had more time to do test shots but it just wasn’t there. I do shoot raw but you can’t recover out of focus. By the way, this wasn’t a paid job, just trying to help a group of friends that I run with.

Any advice on shooting in a room like I described?
I do most all my photography outside, natural ligh... (show quote)

On the focus issue I will use an old technique. Use manual focus for this one. If you have more than one focal point I will not set the camera to either one but do a compromise. Setting it between the two and making sure that the DOF will cover both points. Older lenses used to have DOF charts on them so you could check yourself. Now it might just be a guessing game or trial and error. But we do have the advantage of immediate checking so we can know whether or not to re-shoot. If your camera has a DOF button use that one.
Talking about the white room not the race of course. Doing that in a race would be next to impossible.

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May 15, 2019 06:05:53   #
Gasman57 Loc: NYC
 
I thought it was to reveal the gender of the runners.

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May 15, 2019 06:20:28   #
sb Loc: Florida's East Coast
 
Kozan wrote:
What the hell is a gender reveal?


Some guy got arrested in a park near here this week for that...

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May 15, 2019 06:21:00   #
tonyw36
 
The trouble was that the focus point was in the centre where there was only white with nothing to focus on. You should point the camera at something with some variation, such as one of the people, half press the shutter button and then reframe and push the shutter button fully down to take the shot.

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May 15, 2019 06:31:45   #
ggab Loc: Northern Virginia
 
Resqu2 wrote:
Here is one where both people were out of focus, I used either P or Auto. Not sure what my poor camera focused on if anything lol.


EFIX shows shutter speed of 1/40 sec @ f/4.
That is a rather slow shutter speed for a moving subject as well as shooting hand held.
Sorry, late to the game here.

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May 15, 2019 06:43:56   #
Tomfl101 Loc: Mount Airy, MD
 
dsmeltz wrote:
That looks like a combo of a slow shutter speed and camera shake.


Case closed!.

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May 15, 2019 06:58:13   #
AzShooter1 Loc: Surprise, Az.
 
Speed too slow is what I'm guessing as well.

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May 15, 2019 07:10:55   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
Resqu2 wrote:
Here is one where both people were out of focus, I used either P or Auto. Not sure what my poor camera focused on if anything lol.


P and A (Program mode or Aperture Priority) refer to what the camera will adjust to provide what it thinks is the best exposure based on what your metering mode is - which in this case is multi-segment. The metering system will look at the entire scene, and based on proprietary rules in the firmware, make the best possible exposure (emphasizing middle tones, avoiding overexposure if possible).

Neither metering mode nor exposure mode will have any effect on the focus, other than depth of field considerations, and of course really slow shutter speeds.

You image appears to be correctly exposed. But shallow depth of field contributed only a few things in in focus, and too slow a shutter speed contributed a combination of camera motion blur and subject movement.

The only thing that prevented this image from being technically successful was that you made some choices that didn't work for the situation.

Selecting a shutter speed of 1/160 would have taken care of your camera movement blur, and of course using optical stabilization would also help. You'd have to turn on the camera's flicker detection mode to avoid getting the effect of fluorescent light cycling.

Selecting F8 would have helped with depth of field, but diminishing the distance between the camera and the woman and the camera and the man (more head on rather than from an angle), all would have helped on getting more in focus.

In this situation, an ISO of 4000 would have been what I might have used to allow me to use the settings I described. Your camera can certainly produce good clean images as long as you work on the raw file and fine tune noise reduction vs sharpening vs detail retention vs masking vs microcontrast. It sounds like a big deal, but it takes all of about 30 seconds to dial it in when working on the raw file. The good thing is that once you have those parameters optimized for one image, you can apply them to all the other images taken with the same ISO and in the same room.

See the image below - I removed a good deal of the camera motion blur and you can see that some of your image is actually in focus.


(Download)

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