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DSLRs are not dead yet!
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Apr 24, 2019 10:54:53   #
Retina Loc: Near Charleston,SC
 
Rich1939 wrote:
Ha! Is that new functionality something that couldn't have been added to DSLRs? My point was that the only difference between them is the mirror. Squeezing the shutter release results in the same functional process with the only difference being that mirror movement. After the mirror ballet both follow the same script.

Mirror movement and the sound that results can make a very big difference, enough to leave the DSLR home depending on the shoot. Granted, this do not matter to most people or most of the time, but the same can be said for macro lenses, filter threads, tripod sockets, etc. Point-and-shoot cameras used to meet the need for quiet, minimal vibration shooting, but now there are interchangeable lens cameras which some people prefer over P&S.

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Apr 24, 2019 10:55:36   #
CatMarley Loc: North Carolina
 
Rich1939 wrote:
The surprising part of that report for me was the Fuji numbers vs the Sony numbers. 10.5 to 2.6


Not surprised at all. The Fuji line is a much more "professional" handling, in that its controls are mostly external, lending itself to easier manual operation. Also the jpgs it serves up are more detailed and have extremely good color. A lot of Pros have discovered the Fuji! (Especially in Europe)

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Apr 24, 2019 11:04:18   #
CatMarley Loc: North Carolina
 
Bill_de wrote:
"Some interesting stats on the winning World Press Photo 2019 photographs - over 70% of the photos were shot with Nikon/Canon full-frame DSLR cameras while only 4.4% were taken with a mirrorless camera (only 2.6% were taken with a Sony camera):"

Found on Nikon Rumors

--


Polaroid! I had a real nice one once upon a time.

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Apr 24, 2019 11:06:38   #
BebuLamar
 
CatMarley wrote:
Polaroid! I had a real nice one once upon a time.


Which one was it?

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Apr 24, 2019 11:08:40   #
CatMarley Loc: North Carolina
 
boberic wrote:
Re: the small camera advantage. As someone with large hands. small cameras are a negative as I can't work the controls on a smaller camera. I use Canon for the ergonomics. They fit my hands better.


I think that is just a bit of nonsense. I know ear and eye surgeons with huge hands and no problem handling the tiniest of instruments. (operating through an ear canal takes mighty small instruments: I know - I practiced ENT) You like what you are used to using!

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Apr 24, 2019 11:10:51   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
gwilliams6 wrote:
Numbers don't tell the actual story here. As a longtime pro shooter who has won a few times in the World Press Photo Competition, here is the truth. While many pros have switched to mirrorless, many others wish they could. But economic issues slow this down. Media outlets as well as individual photojournalists have enormous amounts of money invested over decades in DSLR gear. It is not economically feasible or advisable to lose that investment yet when the cameras still work. I personally took some loss when I moved over to Sony mirrorless after 40 years with Nikon and Canon SLRs and DSLRs, but the switch was worth it to me in my personal and client work. In time more and more will make the move and you will see these contests reflect that.

BTW a large amount of pro shooters don't even bother to enter contests so this contest is not really a snapshot of the market. So DSLR lovers don't get too happy here. The latest CIPA numbers have DSLR sales dropping a whopping 50% over this time last year. The handwriting is on the wall folks.
Numbers don't tell the actual story here. As a lon... (show quote)




Spot on assessment. Economics — sunk costs — are the issue.

If your employer owns a locker full of bodies and lenses, transitioning to anything else is difficult. Hopefully, the Canon and Nikon adapters for their existing dSLR lenses will smooth the transition for some organizations and individuals. Others, like you and I, can justify the switch to mirrorless and are happy we made it.

Eventually, a tipping point will favor more rapid transition. Hopefully, those with significant quantities of bodies and lenses will unload them before they are worthless.

I remember the transition from optical film printers to digital mini-labs in the school portrait business I worked for back around 2000 to 2007. We bought film scanners (see below) and ripped out over 40 huge, $50,000 to $160,000 automatic package printers and four PAKO long roll paper processors, plus a few tons of other obsolete equipment. Lots of equipment had to be disassembled and sold as scrap to be recycled, rather than sold as used gear. Other labs were doing the same things we were!

I remember the subsequent transition from film cameras to digital cameras in 2002 to 2007. We had hundreds of $7500 to $12,500 long roll film cameras that were used for years to make millions of school portraits. Suddenly, in early 2005, a properly adjusted Canon EOS 20D was capable of emulating Kodak Portra 160 film well enough to let us switch over 400 photographers to digital capture from film capture.

The kicker? We couldn't find anyone who wanted the film cameras! We had to PAY about $75 each to have them disassembled and recycled! We also recycled nearly a million dollars worth of Kodak Bremson HR500 film scanners (used for only three to six years!) and associated equipment, plus millions of dollars worth of film processors, mixing tanks, optical printers, etc.

Paradigm shifts are like that. When people wake up and realize what they're missing, there is a mad rush to the new normal. Our whole market gradually woke up to the reality that they no longer wanted a package of school portrait prints, when they owned a smartphone connected to the Internet and a handful of social media accounts and photo sharing sites. Herff Jones saw it coming, and sold our photography division to Lifetouch. Now, Lifetouch is part of Shutterfly...

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Apr 24, 2019 11:11:27   #
CatMarley Loc: North Carolina
 
BebuLamar wrote:
Which one was it?


It was a folding one that was covered in what I thought was leather. As I recall it was fairly large - about 8 x 4 inches and about an inch and a half thick.

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Apr 24, 2019 11:14:57   #
Rich1939 Loc: Pike County Penna.
 
CatMarley wrote:
It was a folding one that was covered in what I thought was leather. As I recall it was fairly large - about 8 x 4 inches and about an inch and a half thick.


Maybe an SX70?

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Apr 24, 2019 11:20:46   #
CatMarley Loc: North Carolina
 
Rich1939 wrote:
I know my responses make it look like I'm against 'minus-mirror.' In truth if my budget allowed I would be making the switch. However contrary to marketing hype they are not the "be all and end all". They are good and the new Z series from Nikon has features I'd like to have. Among them the new mount and positives it brings to the system.


Congrats on your dismount from your high horse.

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Apr 24, 2019 11:22:58   #
Rich1939 Loc: Pike County Penna.
 
CatMarley wrote:
Congrats on your dismount from your high horse.


That horse wasn't that high, less than 14 hands. More like a pony

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Apr 24, 2019 11:32:44   #
worldcycle Loc: Stateline, Nevada
 
burkphoto wrote:
You know, I just wouldn't worry about crap like this.

Cameras are cameras. They're all similar (lens, aperture, shutter, light sensitive medium...), and they're all different in the ways they work.

New technologies come and go. Some stick around. Some fade away. Some disappear.

We still have AM and shortwave radio stations.

We still have a few daily newspapers printed on actual paper.

We still have vinyl LP recordings.

We still have buggy whips.

The dSLR will eventually fade to its appropriate level of market interest. If it fades far enough, the manufacturers will quit making them and only the used market will supply them.

Mirrorless cameras represent marketing excitement and higher margins of profitability. I have no doubt that they will, eventually, dominate the market for adjustable cameras used by professionals and high end amateurs. We can argue about when, but it's rather pointless.

Meanwhile, let's all go out and use what we have! It's more important to use a camera than it is to brag, worry, debate, or whine about it.
You know, I just wouldn't worry about crap like th... (show quote)


WOW! A true Zen master. The voice of reason.

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Apr 24, 2019 11:40:47   #
BebuLamar
 
Rich1939 wrote:
Maybe an SX70?


I think it's the SX-70 which I had 3 of them. One of them is the original SX-70 the others are the alpha one version and one with AF. I used to have fun taking picture with the AF version in total darkness as its AF is sonar and can focus in darkness.

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Apr 24, 2019 11:46:35   #
dennis2146 Loc: Eastern Idaho
 
burkphoto wrote:
You know, I just wouldn't worry about crap like this.

Cameras are cameras. They're all similar (lens, aperture, shutter, light sensitive medium...), and they're all different in the ways they work.

New technologies come and go. Some stick around. Some fade away. Some disappear.

We still have AM and shortwave radio stations.

We still have a few daily newspapers printed on actual paper.

We still have vinyl LP recordings.

We still have buggy whips.

The dSLR will eventually fade to its appropriate level of market interest. If it fades far enough, the manufacturers will quit making them and only the used market will supply them.

Mirrorless cameras represent marketing excitement and higher margins of profitability. I have no doubt that they will, eventually, dominate the market for adjustable cameras used by professionals and high end amateurs. We can argue about when, but it's rather pointless.

Meanwhile, let's all go out and use what we have! It's more important to use a camera than it is to brag, worry, debate, or whine about it.
You know, I just wouldn't worry about crap like th... (show quote)


Couldn't have said it better myself. Well done sir.

I see some people just feel the need to predict the end of DSLR's in favor of mirrorless cameras. I am with you in saying, who cares. I love the DSLR's I have and have had. I am not saying I would ever buy a mirrorless camera but for the time being, maybe the next 20 years I will be perfectly happy with cameras of the DSLR type. For those who want mirrorless, have at it, buy to your heart's content. But don't try to put some stigma on those of us who still enjoy DSLR cameras. I find nothing lacking about my Nikon D800.

Dennis

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Apr 24, 2019 11:49:05   #
larryepage Loc: North Texas area
 
burkphoto wrote:


Spot on assessment. Economics — sunk costs — are the issue.

If your employer owns a locker full of bodies and lenses, transitioning to anything else is difficult. Hopefully, the Canon and Nikon adapters for their existing dSLR lenses will smooth the transition for some organizations and individuals. Others, like you and I, can justify the switch to mirrorless and are happy we made it.

Eventually, a tipping point will favor more rapid transition. Hopefully, those with significant quantities of bodies and lenses will unload them before they are worthless.

I remember the transition from optical film printers to digital mini-labs in the school portrait business I worked for back around 2000 to 2007. We bought film scanners (see below) and ripped out over 40 huge, $50,000 to $160,000 automatic package printers and four PAKO long roll paper processors, plus a few tons of other obsolete equipment. Lots of equipment had to be disassembled and sold as scrap to be recycled, rather than sold as used gear. Other labs were doing the same things we were!

I remember the subsequent transition from film cameras to digital cameras in 2002 to 2007. We had hundreds of $7500 to $12,500 long roll film cameras that were used for years to make millions of school portraits. Suddenly, in early 2005, a properly adjusted Canon EOS 20D was capable of emulating Kodak Portra 160 film well enough to let us switch over 400 photographers to digital capture from film capture.

The kicker? We couldn't find anyone who wanted the film cameras! We had to PAY about $75 each to have them disassembled and recycled! We also recycled nearly a million dollars worth of Kodak Bremson HR500 film scanners (used for only three to six years!) and associated equipment, plus millions of dollars worth of film processors, mixing tanks, optical printers, etc.

Paradigm shifts are like that. When people wake up and realize what they're missing, there is a mad rush to the new normal. Our whole market gradually woke up to the reality that they no longer wanted a package of school portrait prints, when they owned a smartphone connected to the Internet and a handful of social media accounts and photo sharing sites. Herff Jones saw it coming, and sold our photography division to Lifetouch. Now, Lifetouch is part of Shutterfly...
img src="https://static.uglyhedgehog.com/images/s... (show quote)


Of course, the first principle everyone learns in engineering economics is that you must ignore sunk cost completely when making financial decisions. Money already spent, including money spent as the result of flawed or bad decisions, is water under the bridge. Nothing can be done about it, and if you don't ignore sunk costs going forward, the result will be more suboptimal decisions as the result of having improper boundary conditions around your analyses.

Reply
Apr 24, 2019 12:28:06   #
Glenn Harve
 
Use the tool that suits you. All this rivalry nonesense is weird. Support free choice, not the exclusion of free choice. Is photography still a freedom, or is it too doomed to group think....
The VAST majority of great photos were taken before mirrorless.

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