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Starting shooting RAW...questions about saving in LR
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Mar 18, 2019 10:30:59   #
NCMtnMan Loc: N. Fork New River, Ashe Co., NC
 
calla wrote:
Thank you Gene!
Lots more questions....

So am I understanding that you recommend most times to only shoot raw & skip jpeg? Or are you advising only to import the raw images & skip import of jpeg?

Re not using Bridge to start my session in ACR...I’m not sure how to get to ACR from LR (unless I go to PS & once I go from LR to PS I still don’t see anything in PS that directs me to ACR?) I am confused (obviously!) as to how to get to ACR to edit my raw images.

I do understand that Bridge is not an image editor, but I thought that was how I got to ACR with my raw images.

When I go up to my Adobe info, I see a Camera Raw CC that says ‘up to date’ but it also says “edit and enhance your raw images inside PS & Bridge”.
All that said I did go into LR & just started editing in LR & I guess it’s doing the same type edits as I was doing in ACR? Looks the same.
Again, I’m confused. :-(
Thx again for all your help/guidance!
Thank you Gene! br Lots more questions.... br br ... (show quote)


For lack of a better explanation, LR is basically a set of file management utilities wrapped around ACR. LR does not make changes to your files, but instead creates a XMP files that retains the changes you want applied to the files when exporting them to another format such as jpeg or when opening them in PS. ACR is used within PS as well as Bridge. So, when you work on an image in LR and then open it inPS, PS is using the XMP file to display the image changes you want applied to the file. While LR does not actually change the image, PS will if you just save it, so you should choose to save as under a different file name. Bridge is also another file management software. It is not necessary to convert your RAW images to dng files unless you just want to. DNG is just more of a universal RAW file format. And when you import files into LR, it is not moving the files from the folder where they are located. LR uses a database to keep up with where the files you import are located and the location of the XMP files as well. So you can actually just copy the files from your camera or memory card to a folder you desire and then browse LR to that folder to just import into it without copying at the same time. You do not have to use either LR or Bridge to use ACR on your photos as you can do that within PS if you prefer to not have LR handle your file management. I am by no means a LR and PS expert, so if I have said something that is incorrect, then I hope the other members will correct it for me.

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Mar 18, 2019 10:42:38   #
abc1234 Loc: Elk Grove Village, Illinois
 
bsprague wrote:
Gene's statement is correct. "But if you are using LR, the more efficient way would be to import your images into the LR catalog, and use the Develop module, which has exactly the same capability and will produce identical images when compared to ACR."

Somewhere you read something about the relationship of RAW files, Bridge and ACR. The Bridge to ACR to Photoshop workflow has a place. For example if you mother sent you a RAW file and asked you to fix it. You might not want it mixed into your personal Lightroom system.

Other than that the workflow should be (1) shoot pictures, (2) Import from card to Lightroom with copying to your file structure and (3) "adjust" them in the Develop module. Saving finished work varies by photographer. Some use "Virtual Copies" and "Snapshots" to mark where they have finished. Others use "Export". It may depend on if you have a single thought in mind for a RAW image file or if you want to branch different directions from "normal" to B&W or "intense", etc. Editing in Photoshop can be one of those directions.

I agree that, once you shoot RAW, JPEGs have little use. There are exceptions. One may be burst shooting of action sports. Another is travel. My system allows me to transfer JPEGs from camera to phone for the shots I want to share with my granddaughters. Another might be using specific camera capabilities like "scene" modes.

For now while you are first experimenting with RAW, skip the Bridge/ACR/Photoshop workflow. Use the Lightroom and "Edit in Photoshop" workflow instead.
Gene's statement is correct. "But if you are... (show quote)


I catalog EVERYTHING, including Mother's raw sent for fixing. Why, because three years from now, she will not be able to find it in her clutter but you can find it in a few seconds. And you will love to hear her say "I did not raise dummies."

We all deal with workflow differently. Here is mine. I use stars to denote the status in editing. 1, reject (move to the reject folder under the folder having all the files). 2, blank. 3, to be processed. 4, processed. 5, print. All 3's eventually become 1's or 4's. I may export a 4 if I like it enough and want to show others. I export it as a jpg to a subfolder called Email. The 5's all go for printing at Costco. For small prints, I use jpg. For larger ones, 16-bit TIFF's. The important thing is to develop a system and then stick to it. No exceptions. Use your mental energy for developing the pictures and not housekeeping.

This is important. Most of use develop 90% or more of our pictures in LR and do not need PS or other products. LR has a lot to offer and learn it thoroughly. You will be surprised how much it does.

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Mar 18, 2019 13:16:43   #
chapjohn Loc: Tigard, Oregon
 
You may also want to get Sony Imaging Edge (it's free) that is designed to work with Sony RAW. There are some things that the A7iii and A7Riii can do that other processing programs do not work with.

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Mar 18, 2019 14:53:40   #
calla Loc: California
 
robertjerl wrote:
ACR is the heart of the editing for PS and LR . A few differences in controls and extras, but the same editing engine.
So you really don't need to go to ACR itself unless you just like or are used to the workflow in it.
I import to LR, do basic developing/editing there and go to PS for advanced editing then save back to LR which of course controls my file system for photos.


Thanks! I'll continue my workflow through LR as I have always done previously.

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Mar 18, 2019 14:54:52   #
calla Loc: California
 
chapjohn wrote:
You may also want to get Sony Imaging Edge (it's free) that is designed to work with Sony RAW. There are some things that the A7iii and A7Riii can do that other processing programs do not work with.


Thank you! I will check this out....haven't used it before, so appreciate the info.

Reply
Mar 18, 2019 15:12:10   #
calla Loc: California
 
OOPS!! Sooooo SORRY!!!

I was responding to someone....not sure who now....except that whoever it was, was explaining their workflow and their 'star' system.....
I got distracted midway through my response and then I must have hit a key that deleted my response and the kind person's response to my question :-(. OUCH!!

Don't know what I did.....but I apologize!

Reply
Mar 18, 2019 16:27:55   #
SuperflyTNT Loc: Manassas VA
 
calla wrote:
Thank you Gene!
Lots more questions....

So am I understanding that you recommend most times to only shoot raw & skip jpeg? Or are you advising only to import the raw images & skip import of jpeg?

Re not using Bridge to start my session in ACR...I’m not sure how to get to ACR from LR (unless I go to PS & once I go from LR to PS I still don’t see anything in PS that directs me to ACR?) I am confused (obviously!) as to how to get to ACR to edit my raw images.

I do understand that Bridge is not an image editor, but I thought that was how I got to ACR with my raw images.

When I go up to my Adobe info, I see a Camera Raw CC that says ‘up to date’ but it also says “edit and enhance your raw images inside PS & Bridge”.
All that said I did go into LR & just started editing in LR & I guess it’s doing the same type edits as I was doing in ACR? Looks the same.
Again, I’m confused. :-(
Thx again for all your help/guidance!
Thank you Gene! br Lots more questions.... br br ... (show quote)


No matter if you’re using Photoshop, Lightroom or Bridge, they all use ACR for raw files.

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Mar 18, 2019 16:48:02   #
calla Loc: California
 
SuperflyTNT wrote:
No matter if you’re using Photoshop, Lightroom or Bridge, they all use ACR for raw files.


Thanks! Got it :-)

Reply
Mar 18, 2019 20:18:49   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
DWU2 wrote:
I think Gene nailed it with his advice. One thing, though - I'd suggest using Adobe RGB color space - especially for photos you output and post to the web.


The Internet standard color space is sRGB! Adobe RGB has a color gamut much wider than most monitors can display. It’s also a wider color gamut than most processes can print. That means you’ll view or print a very dull image.

If you are an advanced enthusiast or professional with serious color management experience, you’ll probably use:

> ProPhoto RGB for a “working” or intermediate color space. This is an extremely wide gamut space that preserves everything until your final, finished file export.

> Adobe RGB for high end inkjet and commercial printing. It’s meant for the very finest photo reproductions and multi-color offset printing or gravure. To really get the most from it, your monitor must be capable of displaying the entire Adobe RGB gamut.

> sRGB for standard wet process silver halide “photo lab” printing, the Internet, all business monitor displays... and everything else.

If you use Adobe RGB, either control the ENTIRE process yourself, or work with someone who has specifically requested Adobe RGB, or is equipped to handle it properly.

As a former photo lab manager, pre-press preparation manager, trainer, and photographer, I can tell you that Adobe RGB is great stuff, BUT, it has fouled up more good images than it has fixed!

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Mar 18, 2019 20:22:05   #
calla Loc: California
 
burkphoto wrote:
The Internet standard color space is sRGB! Adobe RGB has a color gamut much wider than most monitors can display. It’s also a wider color gamut than most processes can print. That means you’ll view or print a very dull image.

If you are an advanced enthusiast or professional with serious color management experience, you’ll probably use:

> ProPhoto RGB for a “working” or intermediate color space. This is an extremely wide gamut space that preserves everything until your final, finished file export.

> Adobe RGB for high end inkjet and commercial printing. It’s meant for the very finest photo reproductions and multi-color offset printing or gravure. To really get the most from it, your monitor must be capable of displaying the entire Adobe RGB gamut.

> sRGB for standard wet process silver halide “photo lab” printing, the Internet, all business monitor displays... and everything else.

If you use Adobe RGB, either control the ENTIRE process yourself, or work with someone who has specifically requested Adobe RGB, or is equipped to handle it properly.

As a former photo lab manager, pre-press preparation manager, trainer, and photographer, I can tell you that Adobe RGB is great stuff, BUT, it has fouled up more good images than it has fixed!
The Internet standard color space is sRGB! Adobe R... (show quote)


I think I've always had it set to sRGB...so it sounds like I should keep it there.
Thank you!

Reply
Mar 18, 2019 20:27:56   #
DWU2 Loc: Phoenix Arizona area
 
burkphoto wrote:
The Internet standard color space is sRGB! Adobe RGB has a color gamut much wider than most monitors can display. It’s also a wider color gamut than most processes can print. That means you’ll view or print a very dull image.

If you are an advanced enthusiast or professional with serious color management experience, you’ll probably use:

> ProPhoto RGB for a “working” or intermediate color space. This is an extremely wide gamut space that preserves everything until your final, finished file export.

> Adobe RGB for high end inkjet and commercial printing. It’s meant for the very finest photo reproductions and multi-color offset printing or gravure. To really get the most from it, your monitor must be capable of displaying the entire Adobe RGB gamut.

> sRGB for standard wet process silver halide “photo lab” printing, the Internet, all business monitor displays... and everything else.

If you use Adobe RGB, either control the ENTIRE process yourself, or work with someone who has specifically requested Adobe RGB, or is equipped to handle it properly.

As a former photo lab manager, pre-press preparation manager, trainer, and photographer, I can tell you that Adobe RGB is great stuff, BUT, it has fouled up more good images than it has fixed!
The Internet standard color space is sRGB! Adobe R... (show quote)


You're correct, Bill. Thanks.

Reply
 
 
Mar 18, 2019 20:35:05   #
calla Loc: California
 
SuperflyTNT wrote:
No matter if you’re using Photoshop, Lightroom or Bridge, they all use ACR for raw files.



Reply
Mar 18, 2019 20:36:51   #
calla Loc: California
 
chapjohn wrote:
You may also want to get Sony Imaging Edge (it's free) that is designed to work with Sony RAW. There are some things that the A7iii and A7Riii can do that other processing programs do not work with.


ok...I'm all set with Sony Imaging Edge....downloaded and ready to go!
thanks again!

Reply
Mar 18, 2019 20:44:16   #
calla Loc: California
 
abc1234 wrote:
I catalog EVERYTHING, including Mother's raw sent for fixing. Why, because three years from now, she will not be able to find it in her clutter but you can find it in a few seconds. And you will love to hear her say "I did not raise dummies."

We all deal with workflow differently. Here is mine. I use stars to denote the status in editing. 1, reject (move to the reject folder under the folder having all the files). 2, blank. 3, to be processed. 4, processed. 5, print. All 3's eventually become 1's or 4's. I may export a 4 if I like it enough and want to show others. I export it as a jpg to a subfolder called Email. The 5's all go for printing at Costco. For small prints, I use jpg. For larger ones, 16-bit TIFF's. The important thing is to develop a system and then stick to it. No exceptions. Use your mental energy for developing the pictures and not housekeeping.

This is important. Most of use develop 90% or more of our pictures in LR and do not need PS or other products. LR has a lot to offer and learn it thoroughly. You will be surprised how much it does.
I catalog EVERYTHING, including Mother's raw sent ... (show quote)


ok....trying this again....started to reply earlier, then I seemed to lose my reply and your reply :-(
(but now I see it again!)

I have always primarily used LR for my editing...I'm not very good with PS, so have used that minimally. I will continue to use LR and am happy to hear I can edit raw in LR and not thus, not alter my workflow process.

Anyway, thank you for sharing your workflow and your 'star' system for status in editing. Interesting to see that you use 16-bit TIFF's for larger prints....I'll have to look into that....I have no knowledge in this area...I think I've always printed jpg.

Thank you again for all the info and advice!

Pam

Reply
Mar 18, 2019 21:47:57   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
calla wrote:
I think I've always had it set to sRGB...so it sounds like I should keep it there.
Thank you!


The camera settings are for JPEGs and the small JPEG preview stuffed into every raw file.

Raw files have their own camera model specific profile. When you open a raw file, it is processed to a bitmap. The bitmap is in whatever working space you want.

As you work in Lightroom or Photoshop, the working space is converted on the fly to the monitor color space. That is why your monitor should be:

A) A good one!

B) Calibrated with a hardware device (colorimeter or spectrophotometer) from X-Rite or Datacolor

C) Custom ICC profiled by the same software that operated the calibration hardware

When you export your image from raw, TIFF, or PSD to a TIFF or JPEG, you can convert it to sRGB or whatever.

If you print from Lightroom, the printer driver converts from the working color space directly to the appropriate printer/paper/ink profile.

If you set everything correctly, your prints closely match your monitor.

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