calla Loc: California

I finally decided to take the ‘jump’ and started shooting RAW...actually shooting RAW & Jpeg...(recently upgraded my camera from Sony a7ii to an a7Riii).
I imported the files into Adobe Bridge to edit the RAW files. (Which then showed both RAW & jpeg files in Adobe Bridge)
-edited & saved each RAW file to dng files
-Bridge now shows RAW, dng, & jpeg file for each image.

-Was I correct in ‘saving’ the RAW files to ‘dng’?

-also notice a few of the images have an ‘xmp’ file which doesn’t show the actual thumbnail of the image, but if I click on it, it opens up my ON1 program (which I haven’t really started using yet).

-after I have edited the RAW files in Bridge, it looks like they are all in LR(incl the dng files)...I usually save to a folder on my ext HD....should I be ‘saving’ all the edited images to the folder in ext HD.... i.e. RAW, dng, & jpeg? (previously, before shooting RAW, I only had the jpeg images to save to external folder...not sure if I need all now).

Sorry for all the questions! Whew!
Thx! -Pam

Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)

You are doing a couple of extra steps, Pam.

If you are shooting raw, unless you have some need to have access to images immediately, the jpegs at best are unnecessary, and in the worst case, may prevent you from leveraging the extra dynamic range available in raw files. A good jpeg exposure in a high contrast situation may require that you prioritize middle tones and sacrifice highlights. In the same situation, you would be able to prioritize the highlights by exposing as bright as possible without actually blowing them out, and still record enough information to adjust exposure, highlights/shadows and white and black levels in post processing to make a good picture.

You are saving changes to dng. You don't have to do this. When you edit a raw file the edits are saved in a Lightroom preview catalog or an xmp file if you have ticked that option in the catalog preferences. If you are editing in Photoshop the changes are in the xmp file. You cannot open that file directly. If On1 is associated with xmp files then it will open when you click on one.

Bridge is not an image editor. Opening a raw file in Bridge will start an editing session in Adobe Camera Raw. When you close out of ACR, the raw file will have an associated xmp file.

If you are using Lightroom, you no longer need to use Bridge to Browse your files. You can import your raw files directly into Lightroom and use the Develop module, which is the same Adobe raw converter used Adobe Camera Raw. I prefer a catalog-based system to organize my files. Bridge is great if you don't want to open a file in Lightroom, but editing the image in ACR will not automatically add the image to Lightroom's catalog.

My workflow uses a raw file and a working edit file (16 bit psd, ProPhoto color space). I created a collection of export presets for each destination - printer, print lab, competition, social media, instagram, personal website, client proof for review, etc - each with it's own set of parameters specific to the destination. I have no need for jpegs, since I only make jpegs from my psd files, and occasionally directly from the edited raw file.

I hope this gives you some ideas for your own workflow.

DWU2 Loc: Phoenix Arizona area

I think Gene nailed it with his advice. One thing, though - I'd suggest using Adobe RGB color space - especially for photos you output and post to the web.

bsprague Loc: Lacey, WA, USA

Gene's advice is (always) good. That said, I'm bothered by a couple things in your post. "I imported the files into Adobe Bridge" and "I have edited the RAW files in Bridge, it looks like they are all in LR" confuse me.

One of the primary points of confusion with Adobe software is about where the files are. The are not "in" any of the programs. The are "in" folder on drives where you put them.

Can you explain how the files are getting from your camera to your computer? With that, someone (maybe me) can get to the next part about modifying, saving and exporting.

calla Loc: California

Thank you Gene!
Lots more questions....

So am I understanding that you recommend most times to only shoot raw & skip jpeg? Or are you advising only to import the raw images & skip import of jpeg?

Re not using Bridge to start my session in ACR...I’m not sure how to get to ACR from LR (unless I go to PS & once I go from LR to PS I still don’t see anything in PS that directs me to ACR?) I am confused (obviously!) as to how to get to ACR to edit my raw images.

I do understand that Bridge is not an image editor, but I thought that was how I got to ACR with my raw images.

When I go up to my Adobe info, I see a Camera Raw CC that says ‘up to date’ but it also says “edit and enhance your raw images inside PS & Bridge”.
All that said I did go into LR & just started editing in LR & I guess it’s doing the same type edits as I was doing in ACR? Looks the same.
Again, I’m confused. :-(
Thx again for all your help/guidance!

calla Loc: California

Thank you! 👍

calla Loc: California

Ok, I actually imported files into LR, so I think I’m good there. I save/export my actual photos to an ext HD. I had the files in LR & then opened them in Bridge which allowed me to edit them in ACR. As I just explained above to Gene, I wasn’t sure how to get the raw files into ACR to edit( other than via Bridge) but I just tried editing them right in LR and that seems to work fine. Not sure if I need to save them & export them with diff file name once I’ve edited...they are continuing to show as _DSC1325.ARW
?
Thanks for your help Bill!

robertjerl Loc: Corona, California

ACR is the heart of the editing for PS and LR . A few differences in controls and extras, but the same editing engine.
So you really don't need to go to ACR itself unless you just like or are used to the workflow in it.
I import to LR, do basic developing/editing there and go to PS for advanced editing then save back to LR which of course controls my file system for photos.

Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)

Adobe RGB is a smaller color space, but most print labs do not use it unless you find a custom lab that will. What is standard is sRGB. My entire workflow Lightroom (Melissa RGB which is the same as ProPhoto but with a gamut of 1.0), then export as a 16 bit ProPhoto psd for editing. Most of my presets are are set to sRGB in Lightroom because it is pretty universal for web and consumer viewing devices. Using ProPhoto is a good way to ensure that any colors that you generate during editing, particularly those colors at the edges of the profile either in hue or saturation, so that you maintain color fidelity.

Profile mismatch between and among your own devices and those of the destination devices are more likely to be handled better with fewer misrepresented or lost colors if you edit in a large color space. Put simply, there are colors that each device can show that others cannot, and by using an all-inclusive profile UNTIL output time ensures that color and tone remain faithful, even those that you may not be able to see on ytur display, but can be printed on a wide-gamut printer.

Converting to a small profile, like sRGB along with using a relative colorimetric rendering intent, is a way to ensure that relationships between colors is maintained, and any out of gamut colors will be handled predictably.

This video may help:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=071XzduxEqI

I would not send Adobe RGB images to the web (the majority of devices can't properly display aRGB), clients (unless specifically requested to) or print lab (unless the lab accepts aRGB images and uses that profile without first converting it to sRGB).


And this may help you understand why editing in a large color profile will lead better color and tonal transitions (freedom from banding, posterization and other things that can happen if you edit in smaller color profiles).

http://schewephoto.com/sRGB-VS-PPRGB/

Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)

Yes, I don't waste time and effort shooting both, since in my workflow I gain nothing from recording a jpeg file, and I lose memory card space, frame rate, and end up tossing any jpegs out of the camera anyway, because I can edit a file with a custom set of adjustments that are far more "granular" than the low-medium-high steps usually associated with in camera settings. Unless you have a compelling reason to shoot jpeg, why bother?

You can right click on a raw file and if you change the file association to open it with Photoshop, it will open in ACR. But if you are using LR, the more efficient way would be to import your images into the LR catalog, and use the Develop module, which has exactly the same capability and will produce identical images when compared to ACR. I use LR for raw processing (heavy lifting, global adjustment, etc) and PS (and others) for fine tuning and precision, pixel-level editing. You don't need to get to ACR from Lightroom. But when you right click on an image in LR, one of the choices is "Edit In" and if you have PS loaded on your computer it will automatically open a Photoshop session. If you select in the Preferences-File Handling tab to open images in PS as 16 bit psd files using ProPhoto color profile (as recommended by Adobe) your psd file will be saved to the LR catalog upon closing, along with all the edits.

I would go to the Catalog Preferences section and tick off "write metadata changes to xmp" so that you always have the changes in two places in Lightroom - in the catalog and in the sidecar file.

mborn Loc: Massachusetts

al13

Thank you Gene,

Both videos were very helpful explaining what I thought I knew. I definitely benefited from someone else’s question. UHH came through again.:)

abc1234 Loc: Elk Grove Village, Illinois

Calla, stick with Gene's advice. Unlike a lot of people on this site with a penchant to complicate things and use unnecessary third-party programs, he cuts to the core with his simple, efficient advice. Forget about ACR and PS. The first thing to do is to save your files to your computer (does not matter if internally or externally). This sounds obvious but you will be surprised how complicated some people even make this. Next, import into LR. ONCE IMPORTED, NEVER EVER MOVE THOSE FILES AGAIN IN THE OS. MOVE THEM ONLY IN LR. If you ignore this, you will get very frustrated looking for where those files are in LR. Now, assign key words such as names of people and subjects, kind of event, location and whatever other parameter you think matters. LR automatically keeps camera and lens information. No one likes doing this but this is how you use LR's very efficient way of finding your pictures. Turn off the sidecar option in preferences. You need do this only once. Now, edit away. You will need months of learning and practicing before you are decent at it but you will learn how good LR is. Until then, forget about PS.

Keep listening to Gene and asking questions. He has a great big KISS for you. Keep It Simple, Stupid. Good luck and enjoy.

gvarner Loc: Central Oregon Coast

So many things going on here, not sure where to start. If you’re using LR, you don’t need to use Bridge. LR keeps track of your photos. When you edit a a RAW file in LR, it uses ACR to do the edit. The XMP File is a"sidecar" data file that defines the edits. The original RAW isn’t touched. You have to understand the basics of how and where your photo files are stored, whether on a PC or a Mac. The file structures are different. There are lots of YouTube videos on the basics for all of this. Strart there.

bsprague Loc: Lacey, WA, USA

Gene's statement is correct. "But if you are using LR, the more efficient way would be to import your images into the LR catalog, and use the Develop module, which has exactly the same capability and will produce identical images when compared to ACR."

Somewhere you read something about the relationship of RAW files, Bridge and ACR. The Bridge to ACR to Photoshop workflow has a place. For example if you mother sent you a RAW file and asked you to fix it. You might not want it mixed into your personal Lightroom system.

Other than that the workflow should be (1) shoot pictures, (2) Import from card to Lightroom with copying to your file structure and (3) "adjust" them in the Develop module. Saving finished work varies by photographer. Some use "Virtual Copies" and "Snapshots" to mark where they have finished. Others use "Export". It may depend on if you have a single thought in mind for a RAW image file or if you want to branch different directions from "normal" to B&W or "intense", etc. Editing in Photoshop can be one of those directions.

I agree that, once you shoot RAW, JPEGs have little use. There are exceptions. One may be burst shooting of action sports. Another is travel. My system allows me to transfer JPEGs from camera to phone for the shots I want to share with my granddaughters. Another might be using specific camera capabilities like "scene" modes.

For now while you are first experimenting with RAW, skip the Bridge/ACR/Photoshop workflow. Use the Lightroom and "Edit in Photoshop" workflow instead.