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Scanning black and white and color negatives
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Mar 13, 2019 10:23:51   #
A.J.R. Loc: Devon, UK
 
Sorry, forgot to say that a positive image file is obtained (from negs.) by just using the Epson Scan software and there is no need to use Photoshop. (although I usually do, but only to get the best out of the file)

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Mar 13, 2019 14:20:50   #
nadelewitz Loc: Ithaca NY
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
When you select your negative strips to scan, place them so the text along the negative faces down toward the scanner surface. This link from the Epson manual demonstrates.

https://files.support.epson.com/htmldocs/prv6ph/prv6phug/html/set2_2.htm


You've given two answers that have nothing to do with the original question. Go back and read it again.

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Mar 13, 2019 14:55:01   #
piniongear
 
Thanks guys. That is good news to hear.
The V750 has not been used for several years now due to space limitations.
I will hook it up and see what happens. I do not recall seeing "Film with film holder" as being a choice, but then I am speaking of the 4870, not the V750.
pg

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Mar 13, 2019 15:29:07   #
Bill P
 
You can make a neg positive by inverting it in PS.

Before my retirement, when I was transitioning to digital, I shot film and scanned. I found that color neg film was better than transparency film due to the higher dynamic range. You will be happy with your results.

But a flatbed is in no way as good as a dedicated film scanner.

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Mar 13, 2019 16:04:45   #
aellman Loc: Boston MA
 
MT Shooter wrote:
Because you are not using a film scanner. You are using a photo scanner which cannot invert while scanning.


Not clear on the difference between a "photo" and "film" scanner?

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Mar 13, 2019 17:09:47   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
aellman wrote:
Not clear on the difference between a "photo" and "film" scanner?


Some scanners cannot scan film at all. They are flatbed scanners made for documents and photographic prints. A flatbed that can also scan film will have a "transparency illuminator." That's a light source in the lid that can shine through negatives or transparencies in place of the usual light source used for reflection scanning.

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Mar 13, 2019 17:23:07   #
aellman Loc: Boston MA
 
burkphoto wrote:
Some scanners cannot scan film at all. They are flatbed scanners made for documents and photographic prints. A flatbed that can also scan film will have a "transparency illuminator." That's a light source in the lid that can shine through negatives or transparencies in place of the usual light source used for reflection scanning.


"What's in a name?" My Epson V500 PHOTO scanner does both.

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Mar 13, 2019 17:31:12   #
therwol Loc: USA
 
Bill P wrote:
You can make a neg positive by inverting it in PS.

Before my retirement, when I was transitioning to digital, I shot film and scanned. I found that color neg film was better than transparency film due to the higher dynamic range. You will be happy with your results.

But a flatbed is in no way as good as a dedicated film scanner.


A simple inversion in Photoshop will not give good results with color negative scans. The amount of color correctionneeded will be "off the chart." Using a film capable scanner with the supplied software is the best way to go. You may still need to apply some relatively minor color correction because of differences in films and because of aging of the negatives.

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Mar 13, 2019 17:49:35   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
piniongear wrote:
I have very many negatives I wish to scan and save them to my computer.
The negatives are both color and black and white, but mostly B&W.

So my questions are:
If I scan a negative is the result a negative image? I assume that will be the case.
If so, how do I convert that to a positive image to save?

I have an Epson Perfection 4870 Photo flatbed scanner and an Epson Perfection 750 Pro flatbed scanner.
Is one better to use than the other to scan negatives? I have a lot of 2-1/4 square medium format negatives.

I tried scanning some B&W negatives long ago when I first purchased the 4870 Photo but the result was a negative image. Maybe I failed to use a particular setting to make the scan result a positive image?
Thanks for any comment you may make.
pg
I have very many negatives I wish to scan and save... (show quote)


USE THE V750 PRO. It is an excellent flatbed scanner that does a very good job with film, if you use it correctly. You will need the film and slide holders that came with the scanner.

The scanner driver software is where all the magic happens! Master the use of that, and you have mastered your scanner. Every control there is needed at one point or another.

The driver can be set for prints or slides or negatives. It will save positive images from each.

A few pointers:

Determine the largest size print you think you will ever make. Scan for that size, at a scanner dpi that will hold up on close inspection. 3200 or 6400 dpi is about right for 1:1 scans of 35mm full frame negatives. Larger negatives scanned at 1:1 can use lower resolutions, unless you want lots of detail in huge prints.

Scanning at 16-bits per color channel will give you awesome post-processing control over your TIFF files.

When scanning slides and transparencies, the dull, emulsion side of the film should FACE the scan head, which is in the base of the scanner. The glossy, base side of the film always faces the light source.

Your scanner driver should let you select several images at the same time, and scan them in succession automatically. Since scanning film at high resolution takes quite a while, you can do something else while the scanner is whirring away.

If your scanner has Digital ICE, it is a great tool for automatically removing dust and spots from your images. ROC = Restore Original Color (Epson may call it something else). GEM = Grain Extraction Module. SHO = Shadow Highlight Optimizer (These last two may not be part of your scanner package. If not, the Develop module in Lightroom, or the ACR filter in Photoshop and Bridge, can do essentially the same things.)

Digital ICE does not work well with Kodachrome, unless you flip the slide both during scanning and during post-processing (i.e.; scan through the base, not the emulsion). That's because of the ridged nature of the images on the emulsion side... the ridges fool ICE into removing parts of the image.

Clean the scanner glass! Use glass cleaner on a PEC PAD (see below). Do not spray the glass directly! If liquid seeps under the edges of the glass, you have a piece of junk to stare at (been there, done that, and seen it happen in a lab setting).

Cleaning film helps, A LOT. Start with a Staticmaster Brush to remove surface lint, debris, and static charges from the film. Then, use PEC-12 film cleaner on a clean PEC PAD (http://photosol.com/products/) GENTLY to remove stuck-on mold, goo, food, mildew, etc. from the film. You can use an Ilford Anti-Staticum Cloth to wipe the film ddry. Once the film is mounted in the scanner holder, you might want to use a bit of compressed air to dust the scanner glass and film just before scanning. If you use Dust Off or generic "canned air", know that it is a refrigerant, so don't tip the can AT ALL, or you can freeze and crack glass surfaces with liquid refrigerant.

Prints, Slides, and Black-and-White negatives are relatively simple to scan well. Color negatives are really difficult to scan well:

> Every emulsion number of the same film has a slightly different color balance.
> No two brands or speeds or types of film have the same color balance.
> The dyes in color film fade at different rates, according to the brand, age, type, and speed of film.
> Highlights and shadows of each color layer fade differently.
> Storage conditions matter a great deal! Negatives stored at 55F and 40% humidity will scan better than negatives from the same roll stored in an attic in Florida.
> There is an orange mask that must be removed from the image. Scanner software doesn't always get rid of it properly, so there may be excess blue-cyan in the positive image.
> You may find yourself spending as much time in post-production as you do scanning.

If all that is a bit much, you can try re-photographing your film with a macro lens on a dSLR or mirrorless camera. That process has its own set of "finesse care parameters" to deal with.

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Mar 13, 2019 18:06:41   #
tvor-matt
 
control i

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Mar 13, 2019 18:34:50   #
piniongear
 
Whew! That sounds like it is going to be a lot of effort involved.
I have the negative carriers handy for the 4870 scanner but I will have to find where I put the set from the V750.
I have (12) 1-3/4 inch 3 ring binders stuffed full of negatives covering 15 years of film photography.
Before digital I had my own color darkroom and I am a bit familiar regarding color shift problems.
As far as printing my scanned negatives I have only a printer that prints 8-1/2 x 11 so there will not be any poster size images printed.

I will check out the V750 software if I can locate it. I recently moved and it may well have been lost in the move.
pg

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Mar 13, 2019 18:38:57   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
piniongear wrote:
Whew! That sounds like it is going to be a lot of effort involved.
I have the negative carriers handy for the 4870 scanner but I will have to find where I put the set from the V750.
I have (12) 1-3/4 inch 3 ring binders stuffed full of negatives covering 15 years of film photography.
Before digital I had my own color darkroom and I am a bit familiar regarding color shift problems.
As far as printing my scanned negatives I have only a printer that prints 8-1/2 x 11 so there will not be any poster size images printed.

I will check out the V750 software if I can locate it. I recently moved and it may well have been lost in the move.
pg
Whew! That sounds like it is going to be a lot of ... (show quote)


https://epson.com/Support/Scanners/Perfection-Series/Epson-Perfection-V750-Pro/s/SPT_B11B178061

The essential software is all online. They issue periodic updates to their scanner drivers, so finding the discs that shipped with it is a waste of time. Get the latest versions.

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Mar 13, 2019 18:40:18   #
piniongear
 
Thank you! I will get the updates.
pg

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Mar 13, 2019 19:43:55   #
aellman Loc: Boston MA
 
burkphoto wrote:
USE THE V750 PRO. It is an excellent flatbed scanner that does a very good job with film, if you use it correctly. You will need the film and slide holders that came with the scanner.

The scanner driver software is where all the magic happens! Master the use of that, and you have mastered your scanner. Every control there is needed at one point or another.

The driver can be set for prints or slides or negatives. It will save positive images from each.

A few pointers:

Determine the largest size print you think you will ever make. Scan for that size, at a scanner dpi that will hold up on close inspection. 3200 or 6400 dpi is about right for 1:1 scans of 35mm full frame negatives. Larger negatives scanned at 1:1 can use lower resolutions, unless you want lots of detail in huge prints.

Scanning at 16-bits per color channel will give you awesome post-processing control over your TIFF files.

When scanning slides and transparencies, the dull, emulsion side of the film should FACE the scan head, which is in the base of the scanner. The glossy, base side of the film always faces the light source.

Your scanner driver should let you select several images at the same time, and scan them in succession automatically. Since scanning film at high resolution takes quite a while, you can do something else while the scanner is whirring away.

If your scanner has Digital ICE, it is a great tool for automatically removing dust and spots from your images. ROC = Restore Original Color (Epson may call it something else). GEM = Grain Extraction Module. SHO = Shadow Highlight Optimizer (These last two may not be part of your scanner package. If not, the Develop module in Lightroom, or the ACR filter in Photoshop and Bridge, can do essentially the same things.)

Digital ICE does not work well with Kodachrome, unless you flip the slide both during scanning and during post-processing (i.e.; scan through the base, not the emulsion). That's because of the ridged nature of the images on the emulsion side... the ridges fool ICE into removing parts of the image.

Clean the scanner glass! Use glass cleaner on a PEC PAD (see below). Do not spray the glass directly! If liquid seeps under the edges of the glass, you have a piece of junk to stare at (been there, done that, and seen it happen in a lab setting).

Cleaning film helps, A LOT. Start with a Staticmaster Brush to remove surface lint, debris, and static charges from the film. Then, use PEC-12 film cleaner on a clean PEC PAD (http://photosol.com/products/) GENTLY to remove stuck-on mold, goo, food, mildew, etc. from the film. You can use an Ilford Anti-Staticum Cloth to wipe the film ddry. Once the film is mounted in the scanner holder, you might want to use a bit of compressed air to dust the scanner glass and film just before scanning. If you use Dust Off or generic "canned air", know that it is a refrigerant, so don't tip the can AT ALL, or you can freeze and crack glass surfaces with liquid refrigerant.

Prints, Slides, and Black-and-White negatives are relatively simple to scan well. Color negatives are really difficult to scan well:

> Every emulsion number of the same film has a slightly different color balance.
> No two brands or speeds or types of film have the same color balance.
> The dyes in color film fade at different rates, according to the brand, age, type, and speed of film.
> Highlights and shadows of each color layer fade differently.
> Storage conditions matter a great deal! Negatives stored at 55F and 40% humidity will scan better than negatives from the same roll stored in an attic in Florida.
> There is an orange mask that must be removed from the image. Scanner software doesn't always get rid of it properly, so there may be excess blue-cyan in the positive image.
> You may find yourself spending as much time in post-production as you do scanning.

If all that is a bit much, you can try re-photographing your film with a macro lens on a dSLR or mirrorless camera. That process has its own set of "finesse care parameters" to deal with.
USE THE V750 PRO. It is an excellent flatbed scann... (show quote)


GREAT STUFF! I HAVE SAVED THE TEXT AS A WORD DOC FOR NEXT TIME i SCAN SOME NEGS. MANY THANKS! >Alan

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Mar 13, 2019 21:04:20   #
charlienow Loc: Hershey, PA
 
If you do not find the film and slide holders I am sure you can purchase them from epson.

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