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Mar 6, 2019 08:34:05   #
Screamin Scott Loc: Marshfield Wi, Baltimore Md, now Dallas Ga
 
SteveG wrote:
I use aperture priority with legacy glass. You should have that at your command?


I do with my current cameras, as well as being able to shoot in Manual mode and still get metering. I didn't have that functionality when I shot with a D70s

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Mar 6, 2019 08:40:37   #
PattyW60 Loc: Northwest Illinois
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
I'm of the opinion that the results of most photographer's will improve more from learning how / when / why to move their focus points around than how to expose in manual.


Paul, this is something I want/need to learn to do! I don't move my focus points, and I know I'm really missing out by not learning more about how and when to do it. I'm not taking advantage of my camera's potential - focus points, tracking options, etc. So much for me to learn!!

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Mar 6, 2019 08:42:50   #
dave.m
 
interesting thread.

I use manual when auto doesn't work. I typically use A priority with landscapes and T for moving subjects. The camera then sets the other 2 components .

When doesn't auto work? Whenever the lighting of the scene as viewed in the viewfinder is not 'average' illumination.

All (?) light meters internal or external work on the assumption that the scene is 18% grey. When it isn't then the exposure will be 'wrong' to some degree or another. It is a credit to modern cameras and sensors that most of the time we still get an adequate exposure which we can work with (especially if we shoot RAW which has significantly more dynamic range than JPEG.)

Common examples of 'incorrect' exposure are a small dark object against a bright background, such as a bird or plane against the sky. The light sky swamps the scene and interpreting that as 18% grey will underexpose the bird/plane such that it is often just a silhouette. An increase by +2 or 3 EV will typically get the bird/ plane exposure correct. Another common example is snow scenes which often come out a dirty shade where a 1 to 2 EV exposure compensation does the trick.

The reverse is also true and a smaller white subject against a dark background needs a -ve EV compensation.

Another example when exposure compensation or Manual setting of A,S,ISO will be necessary is night photography, especially for star images where ISO needs to be as low as we can get (say 6400), aperture needs to be wide at f/2.8 or f/4, so 20s exposures are normal. Most of that will not happen if auto is selected.

Interestingly close ups of people are also typically incorrectly exposed with black people needing -ve compensation and white +ve. The bane of a wedding photographer is the massive difference between a black suit and a white dress in bright sunlight that can't be avoided.

If your still reading, why 18% grey? With reflected light (which is what a light meter sees) complete reflection is white or 255 on an exposure histogram, complete absorption (ie no reflection at all) is 0. Exactly in the middle the histogram is 128 and to get this reflection requires an 18% grey or equivalent (light meters see only reflectance not colour so a lawn of grass is also about 18%.) why not 50% grey? well think of mixing paint. If you mix equal parts of black and white paint you get an off-black. You need to mix about 1:4 to get mid grey.

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Mar 6, 2019 08:44:45   #
SteveG Loc: Norh Carolina
 
Screamin Scott wrote:
I do with my current cameras, as well as being able to shoot in Manual mode and still get metering. I didn't have that functionality when I shot with a D70s


That was my first DSLR! Good camera at only 6mps's! I don't see why you wouldn't be able to although I don't remember it that well and adapting lenses wasn't a "thing" back then.

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Mar 6, 2019 08:55:58   #
d2b2 Loc: Catonsville, Maryland, USA
 
My concntration is on wildlife and nature, which often means working in areas with varying areas of shadows and sunlight. I will most often use a spot-centered manual exposure strategy, such that I meter for the area I want to demonstrate the most detail. Then I am free to shoot without thought of further change in the metering, unless of course there is a change in sunlight or in my subject. Another example is when I am photographing eagles in flight. I want that bald eagle's white head to show a maximum of detail, and against a bright sky, there is no auto meter in the world that will keep up when the bird is in motion. So again, I meter for the head of one of the eagles, or on a white object in the area and reduce exposure slightly - then forget about it.

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Mar 6, 2019 08:56:21   #
Screamin Scott Loc: Marshfield Wi, Baltimore Md, now Dallas Ga
 
SteveG wrote:
That was my first DSLR! Good camera at only 6mps's! I don't see why you wouldn't be able to although I don't remember it that well and adapting lenses wasn't a "thing" back then.


I used to moderate a group over on Flickr that was centered on using "non-metering" lenses on Nikon DSLRs. I have been doing this for years...I really don't participate much in the group anymore since all of my current DSLRs will meter with the older MF Ai & Ais lenses.

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Mar 6, 2019 08:57:56   #
Stephan G
 
Jim1938 wrote:
I got my first 35mm camera in 1960 and every shot was manually exposed, except for the ASA (now ISO). After a while, I bought and used a light meter and my pictures became a lot better and much more interesting.

Lately I've seen quite a few questions regarding manual shooting and wonder why one would ever want to shoot entirely in manual mode, except in some very rare circumstances? At best, manual mode is a guess about the proper exposure settings, although some photographers can probably do a passable job. Certainly, I can see setting two variables manually and letting the camera set the remaining variable automatically, but totally manual exposure, I don't see.

What am I missing? Does "manual" mean setting two variables manually or does it mean setting all variables manually? Are manually exposed shots better in some way? Is it just a guessing game and the one who gets the closest to a great exposure wins the game? Help...
I got my first 35mm camera in 1960 and every shot ... (show quote)


When it is a guessing game, then your contentions are correct. I have found that when shooting in film, I began to 'predict' the settings the more I shot. The "manual" starts with the photographer. A joke told to me long ago, has the zing line, "I shoot manually or on a tripod." Every situation I saw required a differing combination for the final result. It still does, even with the sophisticated cameras of today. "WISIWIG" could be applied to the art of photography. Even with the automations in the camera, it is getting the final result to match what was in the eye of the photographer at first.

The bottom line, so to type, is to use whatever combinations to get the final image the way you want others to see. The spectrum starts from the moment of the vision and goes to the final result using whatever method or means to get it there. I even used tape measures for accuracy of focus, for example.

So, even with all the bells and whistles set to AUTO, you still have to shoot manually. That is, you, the photographer, does need to start with a vision and work to attain the result representing the vision.

If a camera can do all the things for the shot, then who needs a photographer?

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Mar 6, 2019 08:58:33   #
srt101fan
 
dave.m wrote:
interesting thread.

I use manual when auto doesn't work. I typically use A priority with landscapes and T for moving subjects. The camera then sets the other 2 components .

When doesn't auto work? Whenever the lighting of the scene as viewed in the viewfinder is not 'average' illumination.

All (?) light meters internal or external work on the assumption that the scene is 18% grey. When it isn't then the exposure will be 'wrong' to some degree or another. It is a credit to modern cameras and sensors that most of the time we still get an adequate exposure which we can work with (especially if we shoot RAW which has significantly more dynamic range than JPEG.)

Common examples of 'incorrect' exposure are a small dark object against a bright background, such as a bird or plane against the sky. The light sky swamps the scene and interpreting that as 18% grey will underexpose the bird/plane such that it is often just a silhouette. An increase by +2 or 3 EV will typically get the bird/ plane exposure correct. Another common example is snow scenes which often come out a dirty shade where a 1 to 2 EV exposure compensation does the trick.

The reverse is also true and a smaller white subject against a dark background needs a -ve EV compensation.

Another example when exposure compensation or Manual setting of A,S,ISO will be necessary is night photography, especially for star images where ISO needs to be as low as we can get (say 6400), aperture needs to be wide at f/2.8 or f/4, so 20s exposures are normal. Most of that will not happen if auto is selected.

Interestingly close ups of people are also typically incorrectly exposed with black people needing -ve compensation and white +ve. The bane of a wedding photographer is the massive difference between a black suit and a white dress in bright sunlight that can't be avoided.

If your still reading, why 18% grey? With reflected light (which is what a light meter sees) complete reflection is white or 255 on an exposure histogram, complete absorption (ie no reflection at all) is 0. Exactly in the middle the histogram is 128 and to get this reflection requires an 18% grey or equivalent (light meters see only reflectance not colour so a lawn of grass is also about 18%.) why not 50% grey? well think of mixing paint. If you mix equal parts of black and white paint you get an off-black. You need to mix about 1:4 to get mid grey.
interesting thread. br br I use manual when auto ... (show quote)


Good, informative comments...

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Mar 6, 2019 09:00:36   #
BebuLamar
 
I use manual mode whenever the meter doesn't indicate the correct or the exposure that I want. I could use EC, AE lock etc.. but it's much simpler for me to switch to manual.

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Mar 6, 2019 09:01:02   #
Larz
 
Well said, Stephen G

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Mar 6, 2019 09:10:12   #
SteveG Loc: Norh Carolina
 
d2b2 wrote:
My concntration is on wildlife and nature, which often means working in areas with varying areas of shadows and sunlight. I will most often use a spot-centered manual exposure strategy, such that I meter for the area I want to demonstrate the most detail. Then I am free to shoot without thought of further change in the metering, unless of course there is a change in sunlight or in my subject. Another example is when I am photographing eagles in flight. I want that bald eagle's white head to show a maximum of detail, and against a bright sky, there is no auto meter in the world that will keep up when the bird is in motion. So again, I meter for the head of one of the eagles, or on a white object in the area and reduce exposure slightly - then forget about it.
My concntration is on wildlife and nature, which o... (show quote)


What do you shoot with? You might be very surprised to see what some of the cameras are capable of doing especially the Sony axxx's that auto focus and meter up to 11 fps

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Mar 6, 2019 09:17:50   #
gvarner Loc: Central Oregon Coast
 
Using Manual mode - setting the ISO and the shutter speed and the aperture before the shot - is a deliberative process that requires forethought. It’s tied to planning what "look" you want in the end product, not just how you want the shot to be properly exposed. If you only want the latter, let the camera do it. Manual requires understanding the limitations of light meters along with all the other variables that create the image you want, not just the scene that’s in front of you. I’m an advanced snapshooter so I don’t use Manual Mode.

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Mar 6, 2019 09:21:40   #
d2b2 Loc: Catonsville, Maryland, USA
 
SteveG wrote:
What do you shoot with? You might be very surprised to see what some of the cameras are capable of doing especially the Sony axxx's that auto focus and meter up to 11 fps


Used a Nikon D300 and moved to the D7100.

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Mar 6, 2019 09:24:58   #
Quinn 4
 
I have been using manual mode for my cameras for years. My pictures have come out great pictures 99% time. Having down size my collection of cameras to the point I do not need any kind of batteries to work the cameras. Which put an end of what to do with dead batteries. Using the sunny 16 rules, I don't need any kind of light meter. With 400 & 800 speed film I can do all the indoor shooting I want.

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Mar 6, 2019 09:28:25   #
The Villages Loc: The Villages, Florida
 
With the advent of post Processing, not so sure that camera settings are as important as they might have been. Pictures can be lightened, darkened, cropped, etc. More time can be spent with composition.

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