trainspotter Loc: Oregon

"I've never installed an exhaust fan in my darkroom".....explains a lot

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Chris T Loc: from England across the pond to New England

Who's this, Train? … you, or a friend of yours …?

Like the shade of your lipstick, btw … next time, though - try something a little darker ….

This blood red - makes you seem threatening …

And, I KNOW - that's NOT the case …

E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada

As I alluded to before, my knowledge of photochemistry is practical, I know what all the components in a formula do. I mixed scratch formulas for years and I can even tell you a lot about film and paper manufacturing. I always followed the safety procedures as recommended by the manufacturers and whenever they were specified in the formulas. I am not, however, an expert in organic or inorganic chemistry or a toxicologist. So I have to yield to the opinions of chemical engineers and the folks who actually know what and how certain chemicals can be neutralized and/or diluted or rendered harmless. My common sense, however, tells me that some of this expert information is extremely finite and "splitting hairs". There must also be many variations in existing water purification and sanitation conditions in different geographic locations. I would, therefore, refrain from pouring any completely non-biodegradable substance into the drainage system.

Everybody's an "expert" and will stand by their technical savvy until some of this potentially toxic stuff ends up in their orange juice at breakfast. Science and researches have found that certain preservatives, colorants, flavorings, sweeteners, flavor enhancers and thickeners that are ALLOWED to be used in food processing and manufacturing are carcinogenic and toxic with continual consumption. Many common household and laundry cleaning products, if combined, can off-gas and cause harmful fumes. I 'm sure this can happen with certain photo chemicals and how many home darkrooms are really "well ventilated". The stench of certain toners, containing sulfides, is a good thing, it lets you know that you should not use it in a confined space or pour it down your drain. Some more toxic fumes and gasses have no recognizable odor and in fact, one particularly dangerous gas smells nice- kind like roasting almonds. It might not be enough to kill you on the spot, but I'll bet it could get you awfully sick. I don't think it would be a great idea to put that particular photo-bleaching stuff down the drain.

Many of the chemicals used in color film and photograph paper products can cause serious contact dermatitis. How good could that stuff be for our eco-system?

For years, many photographer sprayed their color prints with a variety of lacquers with a high content of ketones, without an efficient spray booth. The word dilutes water-white lacquers and clean their spray guns with thinners that were highly volatile and ketonic as well. Many suffered from serious eye irritation and ongoing migraine headaches and respiratory disease, never associating this with their print finishing procedures. Another "expert" saved money by not using an explosion-proof fan in this spray room and caused a violent explosion. These guys also were known to dispose of their retouching sprays and dyes in the toilet. Another example of responsible citizenship!

jdubu Loc: San Jose, CA

Like I said before, "idiots"

ialvarez50

Hello friend, I am a photography teacher in Truman College in Chicago, One of my classes on Wednesday is a darkroom class. I think I know what I am talking about when it comes to photo chemistry. First, you need to know where to purchase chemicals for your darkroom of course www.bhphoto.com and www.adorama.com are great but there are other places where you can purchase different or new chemistry that is environmentally safe. So, I recommend www.freestylephoto.biz where no only you can buy chemicals they can guide you on the correct way of disposing or them. In my classes we are using Sprint chemistry and that supposed to be much safer that the old Kodak chemistry so ask them, they will guide you the right way.

Ignacio

abc1234 Loc: Elk Grove Village, Illinois

Beware of claims of environmentally safe products, in the darkroom or elsewhere. More marketing than science. If people were so concerned about the environment, then perhaps they would make different choices about transportation, energy consumption, lawns and foods. One day of driving your car, gasoline or otherwise, has more of an effect on the environment than flushing your darkroom chemicals down the drain.

I got curious as to what these Sprint chemicals were so I read the MSDS's. For the most part, they did not look that different from the old Kodak formulae. Enough tweaking to get patents and make claims about safety. Ignacio, do you know that several of these products contain formaldehyde which some think is a human CARCINOGEN? By the way, all these products contain an ingredient known to be involved in the deaths of thousands of humans or more every year.

ialvarez50

Yes I do know that and I am always very careful about how all the students handle the chemistry when they develop their prints. We are very careful about how we dispose of all the used chemistry and that is the important part of all this. For someone that is going to print a few images a week I would suggest to use Ilford chemistry and pour everything in a drum to neutralize before dumping it to the drain. Black and white chemistry is very safe to use and nowhere as toxic as color chemistry.

abc1234 Loc: Elk Grove Village, Illinois

Unless someone is allergic to an ingredient and sulfite is the biggest offender here or is bothered by the odors, the worst that will happen is staining skin or clothes. Regarding your assertion that color chemistry is more toxic than black and white, what is your source? I do not think that the chemicals for color negatives and papers are that different. Some household chemicals and laundry bleach are a lot more dangerous.

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MORE. More cuz there is so much more that
you CAN do with digital. MANY more variables
that you can adjust and they all interact. Back
in the chemical days, there was a limited set
of things you could do. You learned them and
worked with them but basically you were up
against a wall, caged in. Learn to apply those
few things and you're done. With digital there
is a very complex and seemingly ever growing
and expanding collection of variables.

Someone is gonna say that I must be hugely
ignorant of the vast possibilities of chemical
photography ... someone having zero clue as
to who they talkin at !

.

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Oh ! YOU ... the great creative self
sufficient do-it-all-yourself ARTISTE !

What TOTAL booooolschidt !

You coated your own plates and film ?
You measured and concocted all your
own chemicals ? Coated your paper ?
Can you retouch a negative ? Do you
know a bump from a flash ? Acoarst
NOT. You're just a poseur, just a fake
wizard claiming to know dark secrets.
PATHETIC. Dollars to donuts you wear
a brassy M2 to gallery receptions and
cocktail parties.

.

abc1234 Loc: Elk Grove Village, Illinois

Good question. Look at the formulae and MSDS's, where available. The developers contain no strong chemicals at the concentrations used. No stop bath. Sure, the blix was an oxidizer but a weak one. What do you think and why?

E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada

This should not be a conversation about analog v.s digital. Of course, each photographer is free to enjoy his or her work in whatever methodology or medium they prefer but not at the expense of there own health and that of there neighbors and community. If each of us is not environmentally responsible, the cumulative effect can be dangerous to out water supplies, soil conditions, and drainage systems.

I ran an in-house color lab in my studio for many years. We were a comparatively small lab operation compared to a major outsourced color lab, nevertheless, we were mixing chemicals in 25-gallon storage tanks and our automatic processors were sucking them in at an alarming rate. Each tank in a processor has an overflow standpipe to drain off excess liquid as replenishment is added. The wash water carries latent chemicals- bleach-fix etc. and drains it off all the time. We went to the effort of retaining all the drainage, recovering the silver and sending off the exhausted chemistry to an industrial disposal facility.

As far as personal safety, true enough, a small home darkroom hobbyist is not going to bathe in the stuff or drink it and their exposure is going to be limited. Even is a small industrial setting, like I had, we are handling the chemistry all the time, mixing it, daily machine maintenance, scheduled cleaning of the tanks and racks, testing pH levels etc. We were more likely to inhale fumes or come in direct contact with toxic substances- some in concentrated form.

Color print chemistry is nasty- most stabilizers contain formalin- a formaldehyde derivative. Bleach may contain traces of cyanide. None of this stuff is good for your eyes or skin.

My advice: Dilute and neutralize as much as possible. Avoid draining into private or public systems. Pour the exhausted solutions in 1 or 2-gallon jugs (I use the ones from Kitty-Litter). I also save up dead batteries and bring all of this to the periodic hazardous waste collection in my area. Many communities have this service. Y'all get used to it- it's no big deal. Just like recycling cans, bottles, plastics, and paper products and using a composting bin- it takes only a few minutes when throwing out the garbage.

Listen, folks- have a sense of humor about it. When I was a kid my parents warned me that if I did not go to school, graduate and go into college, I would end up working as a "garbage man"! Problem was, I loved the idea of being a sanitation man in New York City- the trucks were impressive- the guys were big and strong and there was a lot of yelling and noise- they would empty the cans into the grinder or compactor and yell for the driver to move on. There was lots of cussing- COOL! Besides, they had a good union and the greatest brass band in the city- 100 strong- The NYC SANITATION DEPT. BAND- they would march down the street on Columbus Day in spanking new white uniforms and a clean WHITE brand new garbage truck followed at the rear. I never knew the uniforms or the truck was actually white! The first time I saw the orange and blue logo, emblazoned on the doors, not covered with dirt- I was impressed!

Well- the pressure was great and I relented. I finished school, did college, went into the service but nonetheless, at home, my chore was to take out the garbage. My first studio job was cleaning the darkroom, the toilets and taking out the garbage. Boot camp- guess what? Viet Nam? I Don't even want to think about some of the sanitation duties.

So I get back home, finish college, get a degree, become a photographer and open a studio. God forbid anybody should clean up or take out the trash so the "boss" gotta do it! At home, every time I leave the house my lovely wife has all the recycling neatly sorted out, the garbage and the green bin gunge- ugh! "Now don't mix it" up she warns! At home and at work, I AM THE GARBAGE MAN! -At last!

abc1234 Loc: Elk Grove Village, Illinois

I share your concern about the environment and wish more people did too.lucky for them they won't be around to see how much worse it's going to get. And climate change too.

Formalin is merely a 37% solution of formaldehyde. It is not nearly as bad as you think. As far as I remember, blix contained no cyanide.