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Feb 19, 2019 20:17:23   #
tdekany Loc: Oregon
 
SuperflyTNT wrote:
So I guess you’re saying guys like Warhol, Indiana and Lichtenstein haven’t stood the test of time. I should tell MOMA and the Hirshorn.




Warhol used to be a customer of mine towards the end of his life. Just as an FYI.

Reply
Feb 19, 2019 23:51:06   #
User ID
 
Bipod wrote:
No creative art can thrive in a vacuum. There has to be:
* demand for its works
* funding (patrons)
* legal protection for creators/performers/artists
* education (a young dancer doesn't get to be a prima ballerna by buying a copy of Ballet for Dummies
* facilities, materials and tools
* a "scene" -- people who know about and appreciate the art form

It's rather like sports: it takes 12 million American kids playing basketball to create 300 NBA players.
And that's assuming there are enough coaches, scouts and college teams to develop these players.
Kids don't have to pay for the coaching they receive in school or in college--or to rent the court.

By the college level, coaching is pretty good. But who trains photographers? Get your Four Thirds
camera and your copy of PhotoShop and you're on your way to being Ansel Adams....uh, not quite.

Wedding photography can exist as business as long as their are brides who want photos of their wedding,
but fine art photography requires galleries, collectors, and museums. Portrait photography requires
sitters willing to pay for portraits.

Dorothea Lange didn't pay out of her own pocket to photograph migrant workers--the FSA paid.
Ansel Adams didn't pay out of his own pocket to phtograph the National Parks--the Park Service paid.
Alfred Stieglitz's phorotraphic work was supported by his gallery, An American Place, in NYC.

Money has dried up, many galleries have closed, sitters have become scarce.

Ask yourself: what is the most I ever paid for a photographic print? Now consider: Andreas Gursky's original
photograph "Rhein II " (1999 -- a chromogenic color print, measuring 73" x 102", mounted on clear acrylic).
It sold at auction at Christie's in NYC in 2011 for $4,338,500 -- the most ever paid for a photograph.
What would it have fetched at your local photo gallery (if there is one)?

Finally, technology is not neutral: some technologies provide a unique, permanent original , others
do not. You're lucky to get more than $400 for an ink-jet print, unless it has already been sold several times
and has unimpeachable provinance.

Manufactuers just want to sell gear. They don't care whether or not its capable of producing valuable prints.
Most buyers don't care either: they think with a Four Thirds camera, a copy of PhotoShop, and one of
Bryan Peterson's books they are all set to be the next Ansel Adams. They don't realize that they would have
a better chance with a camera made from a shoe box.

Automation prevents new photographers from learning the very things that are most important to photograph.
Subminaiture format (almost the same size as 110 cartridge film!) limits quality print size (for straight photography).

If you want to paint a ceiling like Michaelangelo did in the Sistine Chapel, you better not be using a roller
on a pole. Sure that's "higher tech" than a brush, and it's more efficient and conveneint (no lying on your back
on a scaffold for hours and hours). But it just won't look the same.

Each person chooses his priorities as a photographer: is your top priority print quality and value, or camera convenience
and compactness? Do you want "bells & whistles" or image quality? Joe Consumer has made his choice: tiny,
"high-tech", convenient and cheap!

According to Bureau of Labor Statitics estimates, there are only 49,320 people employed as professional
photographers in the US as of 2017 -- out of a population of 326 million. https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes274021.htm

Even if every pro in America bought a new camera every year, it would have nelgibible impact on the sales the big
Japanese camera makers. From a marketing standpoint, pros don't matter (except as paid endorsers),

The future of photography is in the hands of consumers--and since 2011 they have been deserting in droves for
smart phone cameras. The market trends say that the future of photogrphy is smart phones -- which means it has no
future except as a consumer passtime: creating images so that they can be deleted within a short time.

No other artist has to compete with consumers for the attention of suppliers. Nike does not make ballet slippers.
Crayola does not make artists' crayons. Sherwin Williams does not make artists oil paints. First Act does not make
violins for concertmasters.

What camera manufactuers do not sell primarily to consumers? Off hand, I can only think of Hasselblad, Sinar
and Phase One/Leaf. Yashica is gone, Zeiss hasn't made a Zeiss Ikon camera since 2004 (and the Zeiss brand for
lenses is licensed to Sony), Voitlander is a zombie brand, and the Mamiya brand is controlled in the USA by a
different company than the camera manufacturer,

Photography only became accepted as fine art around 1900-1930 thanks to the efforts of Alfred Steiglitz
and a three generations of brilliant photographers. Pictorialism began the process of getting photography
taken seriously, but it could not have survived modernism. The "straight photography" got photography
accepted as modern art. But there is no guarantee it will retain that status.

Older works will continue to appreciate and new works by established photographers will command high
prices, but it has gotten very difficult for younger photographers to break into the fine art market, and soon
it may be nearly impossible.

If you want to feel young, check out the ages of the living photographers whose work commands the top prices.
None of them is under the age of 50. Thomas Demand is 55. Andreas Gursky is 64. Sally Mann is (a lovely) 67.
Annie Liebovitz is (a very young) 69. Bruce Barnbaum is 76. Don McCullin is 84.

Photography (the art form) is probably entering a "dark age". But fauxtography (what people do with smart phones
and "selfie sticks") is bigger than ever!

How much are you willing to pay for a stranger's "selfie"?
No creative art can thrive in a vacuum. There has... (show quote)


Verrrrrry few times I've agreed with Bipod, but this is one.

I might nittpick a couple of minor points, but by and large,
I'm in the Amen Corner for this one.

Rather than specify any nitts to pick, I rather wanna say
that the remark featuring Adams and a shoe box is NOT
allegory, not oversimplification, not exaggeration, etc etc.
It is plain unvarnished fact ... altho, more often than not,
it's an oatmeal box rather than a shoe box ;-)

.

Reply
Feb 20, 2019 20:47:08   #
Bipod
 
cowboydid2 wrote:
So, to get this thread back on track, these photos, and many others, where taken with my Motorola cell phone, Feb. of last year. Good pics, I think. BUT, I felt I could do so much better, and have more options. I now own several Nikon DSLR's, am learning everything I can about how to use them, correctly, AND teaching my 10 and 12 year old sons how, as well. Do I still use the cell phone for pics? Sure, but not nearly as often as we use our DSLR'S. REAL cameras are here to stay.

I agree with your, CowboyDid2. The cell phone is convenient. In fact, it's a very impressive
as gadget. But...

Let's take a good, close look at those photos. Enlarged even to full-screen size, they are not sharp.

Why didn't you make those photos downloadale? Is that all the res there is?

#1 has a severely unexposed dark shadow right in the center. Is the subject of photo a dark shadow?

#2 the entire cliff is underexposed, resulting in poor color. The rocks in the foreground are out of focus.

Sure, the Grand Canyon is impressive--but these photos are not impressive. If that's the best a Motorola
smart phone can do, maybe you should trade it for a Kodak 110 Pocket Instamatic. Much larger format
and the battery lasts longer.

Reply
 
 
Feb 20, 2019 21:26:02   #
Bipod
 
blackest wrote:
If a smartphone had a sensor that had an aperture of f11 it would be useless.
however they use quite large fixed apertures such as f1.7, f2.0
iphone has a 1/3" sensor

Pixel Size:
1.2 µm
Maximum Circle of Confusion:
3 µm
Diameter of Airy Disk:
2.7 µm
Diffraction Limited? No

F2.8 would be Diffraction limited but that camera doesn't have an F2.8 aperture to be diffraction limited! It is a single aperture lens.
https://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/diffraction-photography.htm

http://photoseek.com/wp-content/uploads/Camera-sensor-sizes-2018-PhotoSeek.jpg
If a smartphone had a sensor that had an aperture ... (show quote)

There is confusion here over the term "limited by diffraction".

From an optical engineering standpoint, all optical systems are limited by diffraciton, but most are also
limited by aberrations. A perfect system is one that is only "diffraction-limited". Saying a optical
system is "diffraction-limited" is the highest compliment one can pay.

Now, a digital camera is not a pure optical system: it has an image sensor. As it is also limited by
the pixel density of the sensor. But this is not a good thing. Reducing the pixel density (low res
sensor) can make diffraciton invsibille -- but it also makes fine detail invisble.

Increaseing the format size means you get more resolution with the same pixel density.

But there is another consideration: all camera lenses are sharper if stopped down a bit from their
maximum aperture. But smart phone designers have no choice but to use those big apertures--
because of the high diffraction caused by short physical focal length.

So Smart phone photos have very shallow depth-of-field.

Even worse, it means the (plastic lens) are not as sharp as they would be at a larger format--
where you could stop-down a bit without too much diffraction.

Your Canon EF or Nikon FX lens is probably sharpest at f/4 or f/5.6. A plastic lens the same
size would probably be sharpest at f/8. So would the smart phone's lenses--were it not for
its dinky size and consequent high diffraction. But it can't use f/8, so it has to use to use f/2.8,
at which is is not sharp.

I doubt you'd buy a plastic lens for your Canon ES-mount or Nikon F-mount body.. But it would
be so much better than the plastic lens in a smart phone. for the simple reason that you can shoot
at a smaller f-number (making the lens sharper!)

So tiny format results not only in more diffraction but also in more lens aberrations and fewer
total pixels. Bad + bad + bad = very bad.

The benefit is compactness: a camera with a fast lens will fit in your pocket. The price you pay
is low resolution and lots of aberrations.

Diffraction is unavoidable, pixel density is limited by current fab technology, and lenses can only
be made so good (especially plastic ones!). But all these problems are improved by making the
format larger.

Reply
Feb 20, 2019 22:38:44   #
Bipod
 
SuperflyTNT wrote:
So I guess you’re saying guys like Warhol, Indiana and Lichtenstein haven’t stood the test of time. I should tell MOMA and the Hirshorn.

Great point, SuperflyTNT.

Like all generas of art, there was good and bad pop art. Lichtenstein has fared better than, say, Rauschenberg.

Reyner Banham -- a critic who did much to win acceptance for pop art -- was highly critical of particular works
that he felt didn't measure up. But it was a pleasure hearing him talk about mass-produced items (mainly 1950s
automobiles) that he felt were well-designed and beautiful. (The values of those have also held up.) It changed
how I think about mass-produced items.

Funny how Robert Indiana's "Love" scuplture was dipicted on a US postage stamp in 1973, then was transformed
by the artist in 2008 into "Hope" in an act of self-plagiarism that the artist said was inspired by Barack Obama's
Presidential campaign. Banham liked "Love" as an example of pop art and good typographic design; he would have
hated "Hope".

In any case. hope proved to be as elusive a goal in the 2000s as love had been in the 1960s. Perhaps instead of love or hope,
what we really need is clear thinking and good engineering: design? Nope--too many letters:
DE
SIGN


Reply
Feb 20, 2019 23:25:38   #
User ID
 
Bipod wrote:
...........
.......design? Nope--too many letters:
DE
SIGN





SO
NY


[Not "South New York"]
.

Reply
Feb 21, 2019 11:38:02   #
blackest Loc: Ireland
 
Bipod wrote:
There is confusion here over the term "limited by diffraction".

From an optical engineering standpoint, all optical systems are limited by diffraciton, but most are also
limited by aberrations. A perfect system is one that is only "diffraction-limited". Saying a optical
system is "diffraction-limited" is the highest compliment one can pay.

Now, a digital camera is not a pure optical system: it has an image sensor. As it is also limited by
the pixel density of the sensor. But this is not a good thing. Reducing the pixel density (low res
sensor) can make diffraciton invsibille -- but it also makes fine detail invisble.

Increaseing the format size means you get more resolution with the same pixel density.

But there is another consideration: all camera lenses are sharper if stopped down a bit from their
maximum aperture. But smart phone designers have no choice but to use those big apertures--
because of the high diffraction caused by short physical focal length.

So Smart phone photos have very shallow depth-of-field.

Even worse, it means the (plastic lens) are not as sharp as they would be at a larger format--
where you could stop-down a bit without too much diffraction.

Your Canon EF or Nikon FX lens is probably sharpest at f/4 or f/5.6. A plastic lens the same
size would probably be sharpest at f/8. So would the smart phone's lenses--were it not for
its dinky size and consequent high diffraction. But it can't use f/8, so it has to use to use f/2.8,
at which is is not sharp.

I doubt you'd buy a plastic lens for your Canon ES-mount or Nikon F-mount body.. But it would
be so much better than the plastic lens in a smart phone. for the simple reason that you can shoot
at a smaller f-number (making the lens sharper!)

So tiny format results not only in more diffraction but also in more lens aberrations and fewer
total pixels. Bad + bad + bad = very bad.

The benefit is compactness: a camera with a fast lens will fit in your pocket. The price you pay
is low resolution and lots of aberrations.

Diffraction is unavoidable, pixel density is limited by current fab technology, and lenses can only
be made so good (especially plastic ones!). But all these problems are improved by making the
format larger.
There is confusion here over the term "limite... (show quote)


what plastic lens the iphones cameras are sapphire glass, maybe not the greatest
https://bgr.com/2016/10/04/iphone-7-camera-sapphire-lens-scratches/

Shallow depth of field? f1.7 lens, 3mm focal length the hyperfocal distance is 1.61 feet

Subject distance 1.61 ft

Depth of field
Near limit 0.8 ft
Far limit Infinity
Total Infinite

In front of subject 0.8 ft
Behind subject Infinite

Hyperfocal distance 1.61 ft
Circle of confusion 0.011 mm

Without doubt there are limitations, if you use base iso 25 then hand held shooting of photos with an iphone become difficult, using higher iso limits dynamic range and the hvec format is 10 bit not 12 or 14 like a DSLR.

I am pretty impressed with what an iPhone can manage, I know my DSLRs can do better than an iPhone but the iphone is still pretty impressive. I'd love to get moondogs 1.33x anamorphic lens for mine. unfortunately it's about twice its American price of $175 to buy it here. Still cheap compared to anamorphic lens prices for DSLR's.

These are cameras not christmas cracker toys. Apple is a very big company and the iPhone is a large part of its product line up, it's cameras are an important aspect of the iPhones design and not an afterthought.

Reply
 
 
Feb 21, 2019 18:49:14   #
cowboydid2 Loc: The highways and byways of America
 
So, still learning the system. And, these are what they are, cell phone pics. I know they can be better, which I why I bought real cameras. And joined this forum.


(Download)


(Download)

Reply
Feb 21, 2019 19:10:49   #
tdekany Loc: Oregon
 
cowboydid2 wrote:
So, still learning the system. And, these are what they are, cell phone pics. I know they can be better, which I why I bought real cameras. And joined this forum.


https://www.ippawards.com/press/ See how good iPhones can be in capable hands

Reply
Feb 21, 2019 21:49:12   #
Bipod
 
blackest wrote:
what plastic lens the iphones cameras are sapphire glass, maybe not the greatest
https://bgr.com/2016/10/04/iphone-7-camera-sapphire-lens-scratches/

Shallow depth of field? f1.7 lens, 3mm focal length the hyperfocal distance is 1.61 feet

Subject distance 1.61 ft

Depth of field
Near limit 0.8 ft
Far limit Infinity
Total Infinite

In front of subject 0.8 ft
Behind subject Infinite

Hyperfocal distance 1.61 ft
Circle of confusion 0.011 mm

Without doubt there are limitations, if you use base iso 25 then hand held shooting of photos with an iphone become difficult, using higher iso limits dynamic range and the hvec format is 10 bit not 12 or 14 like a DSLR.

I am pretty impressed with what an iPhone can manage, I know my DSLRs can do better than an iPhone but the iphone is still pretty impressive. I'd love to get moondogs 1.33x anamorphic lens for mine. unfortunately it's about twice its American price of $175 to buy it here. Still cheap compared to anamorphic lens prices for DSLR's.

These are cameras not christmas cracker toys. Apple is a very big company and the iPhone is a large part of its product line up, it's cameras are an important aspect of the iPhones design and not an afterthought.
what plastic lens the iphones cameras are sapphire... (show quote)


"Sapphire glass" is a misnomer: synthetic sapphire is not glass (silica), it's sapphire
(aluminum oxide α-Al2O3). It is used for transparent windows in some optical instruments
(even some high-end bar code scanners).

Ir can only be used for the window, not the lens elements. Sapphire much to hard (9.0 on the
Mohs scale--same as corundum!) to grind into a lens commercially. Also, it takes at least two
different materials having different refractive indexes to make a modern lens.

And it sounds like the window on Apple's iPhone isn't even sapphire. The link you provide
states that he measured the hardness as 6 on the Moh's scale: softer than Quartz (7), the same
as orthoclase feldspear (6), and harder than apatite (5). As I mentioned, if it were a sapphire
window, the hardness would be 9.0 -- and nothing would scratch it except diamond.

So if the link is correct, then "sapphire glass" is just marketing talk: like "digital antenna" or
"jeweler's silver"---it's a way for Apple to fool people into thinking they are getting something
that they aren't. High-tech should really be called "hype-tech".

If you'll explain how you got those numbers for hyperfocal distance and circle of confusion,
I'll be happy to respond to them.

Reply
Feb 21, 2019 23:43:41   #
blackest Loc: Ireland
 
Bipod wrote:
"Sapphire glass" is a misnomer: synthetic sapphire is not glass (silica), it's sapphire
(aluminum oxide α-Al2O3). It is used for transparent windows in some optical instruments
(even some high-end bar code scanners).

Ir can only be used for the window, not the lens elements. Sapphire much to hard (9.0 on the
Mohs scale--same as corundum!) to grind into a lens commercially. Also, it takes at least two
different materials having different refractive indexes to make a modern lens.

And it sounds like the window on Apple's iPhone isn't even sapphire. The link you provide
states that he measured the hardness as 6 on the Moh's scale: softer than Quartz (7), the same
as orthoclase feldspear (6), and harder than apatite (5). As I mentioned, if it were a sapphire
window, the hardness would be 9.0 -- and nothing would scratch it except diamond.

So if the link is correct, then "sapphire glass" is just marketing talk: like "digital antenna" or
"jeweler's silver"---it's a way for Apple to fool people into thinking they are getting something
that they aren't. High-tech should really be called "hype-tech".

If you'll explain how you got those numbers for hyperfocal distance and circle of confusion,
I'll be happy to respond to them.
"Sapphire glass" is a misnomer: synthet... (show quote)


Still isn't plastic is it?

figures can be had at

http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html

https://www.theverge.com/2016/10/4/13160180/apple-iphone-sapphire-camera-lens-analysis

Seems that the lens has a sapphire laminate coating over tempered glass plus another coating on the inside, very much not plastic. The inside of that lens is another material with a different refractive index. It seems like he was smashing through the sapphire layer
hardness and brittleness are quite different but often related properties.

The ippa awards photos seem to show some pretty good photos taken with iphones.

I know you don't want to hear it, but as cameras they are good enough.

Reply
 
 
Feb 22, 2019 15:46:43   #
Bipod
 
blackest wrote:
Still isn't plastic is it?

No, the lenses in the iPhone are made of pure hypium. Why can't Apple just 'fess up and give
us a straight answer? But they don't even list the sensor format in the specification for the iPhone 5.

Smoke and mirrors.
Quote:

Hang on--that calculator dosn't have entry for any smart phone.
So what did you enter? Canon 7D?
Quote:

https://www.theverge.com/2016/10/4/13160180/apple-iphone-sapphire-camera-lens-analysis

Seems that the lens has a sapphire laminate coating over tempered glass plus another coating on the inside, very much not plastic. The inside of that lens is another material with a different refractive index. It seems like he was smashing through the sapphire layer
hardness and brittleness are quite different but often related properties.

If it scratches at 6 on the Moh scale (a simple test that anybody can perform)
--as that link admits it does--then it's not a sapphire. Period. Though it might
contain aluminum oxide. Just as charcoal contains carbon -- but diamond is
a special crystalline form of carbon. Sapphire is also a massive crystal: a trigonal
crystalline form of corundum (Al2O3).

Sorry, but there is no such thing as "sapphire coating" either--at least not that's
transparent. One can powder sapphire -- just as one can powder diamond--and
add a binder to make a paint, but it will be translucent, not transparent. It might
be possible to vacuum deposit tiny crystals of corundum as an optical coating--
but this would not form a continguous crystal and so would not be a hard, scratch
resistant surface. It would be more like a sheet of sandpaper (which you can cut
easily with scissors).

The only reason that sapphire came up in relation to the iPhone is that it is
used for hard windows in high quality optical instruments. Clearly, the iPhone
does not have such a window. So it was just misdirection.

"Sorry....I didn't mean gold, I meant gold plate. Well maybe not plate, gold wash.
Uh, OK, make that gold-colored...." This litany is as old as commerce. It's
something that reputable jewelers and gemologists --- and optical makers--
try very hard to avoid doing. Call it what it is.

"Saphire laminate" may be possible but would cost more than solid sapphire window.
You'd have to grind sapphire very thin on a diamond wheel, then glue it with
optical cement. Try it.

My grandparents were lapidarists. My father was a member was a
mechanical engineer and a member of the American Society of Testing and
Materials. Stuff is what it is--calling it made-up names won't change it.
"Ersatz" isn't a spa in Switzerland.

In my watchmaking hobby, I've bought a lot of watch crystals -- the
sapphire ones are expensive and cannot be scatched with a knife or even
a piece of quartz.. I've also done mineral testing.

Sapphire is super hard, inert stuff. You can grind it down with diamond
abrasive, or cleave facets in it. Or powder it in a special mill. That's
about all.

Did you notice that none of your links are to a site with fact-checking and a policy
of printing corrections--such as the NY Times, Washington Post, Wall Street Journal,
or an academic institution such as the UC, Stanford or MIT? Instead, they are like an
endless cycle of Fox News, Breakbart, National Equirer, etc. ad nauseum. Do you
believe everything you read on line?

Remember when "truth" didn't mean "the post with the most likes" or the "tweet
with the most re-tweets"?
Quote:

The ippa awards photos seem to show some pretty good photos taken with iphones.

I know you don't want to hear it, but as cameras they are good enough.

Good enough for whom?

Maybe you recorded the IPPA awards show with a Sony Walkman and that sounds good to you.
So studios can all throw out their Neumann mics.... It don't follow. Listening with ear buds,
it may sound the same. But that's not the standard by which one judges recordings.

The consumer can't believe there's a difference between industrial and professional equipment
and the crud he buys. He thinks his ear buds are studio monitors. He thinks his post hold digger
is a Hughes rock bit. He think smart phone image captures are "good enough".

A dinky little image on a computer monitor (probably an LCD/LED screen) is hardly the true test of
photographic quality. Just keep lowering your expectations, and pretty soon you'll be raving over
the food at McDonald's.

Let me be clear: the Apple iPhone 5 is a good smart phone with image-capture capability---but that's
not the same thing as a good camera. A smart phone is simply too small to be good.. For that matter,
McDonald's is a well-run fast food restaurant with consistent quality--but that's not the same thing as
a good restaurant.

Chefs are supposed to know the difference between quality and convenience--and so are photographers.

As the late Karl Langerfeld once said, "Sweat pants are an admission of defeat."

Reply
Feb 22, 2019 16:31:27   #
Bipod
 
BTW, Canon is very happy to tell you what material each element in a Canon lens is made from--
and give you a cross-sectional view of the lens design. Plus test resuls and MTF graphs.

That's because Canon is proud of its materials and designs. It has nothing to hide.
In fact, Canon publishes an excellent book, Canon Lens Work III: The Eyes of EOS
that contains all this and more.

And the specs for every Canon camera include the preceise dimensions of the sensor.
If it's FF it says so; if it's APS-C it says so.

But technopolies like Apple and Google can't seem to make a single statement without
engaging in marketing hype

Reply
Feb 22, 2019 16:31:34   #
blackest Loc: Ireland
 
Bipod wrote:
Good enough for whom?

Maybe you recorded the IPPA awards show with a Sony Walkman and that sounds good to you.
So studios can all throw out their Neumann mics.... It don't follow. Listening with ear buds,
it may sound the same. But that's not the standard by which one judges recordings.

The consumer can't believe there's a difference between industrial and professional equipment
and the crud he buys. He thinks his ear buds are studio monitors. He thinks his post hold digger
is a Hughes rock bit. He think smart phone image captures are "good enough".

A dinky little image on a computer monitor (probably an LCD/LED screen) is hardly the true test of
photographic quality. Just keep lowering your expectations, and pretty soon you'll be raving over
the food at McDonald's.

Let me be clear: the Apple iPhone 5 is a good smart phone with image-capture capability---but that's
not the same thing as a good camera. A smart phone is simply too small to be good.. For that matter,
McDonald's is a well-run fast food restaurant with consistent quality--but that's not the same thing as
a good restaurant.

Chefs are supposed to know the difference between quality and convenience--and so are photographers.

As the late Karl Langerfeld once said, "Sweat pants are an admission of defeat."
Good enough for whom? br br Maybe you recorded th... (show quote)


The iphone 5 is a rather old iPhone, the oldest Apple still sell is the 7 and 7+ sensor size is 1/3 of an inch

With cameras you have a performance envelope and the larger that envelope is the more circumstances you can actually use the camera although there are times when a 'lesser' camera is more appropriate. E.g a gopro on a mountain bike would be better than a DSLR.
The IQ is certainly not as good but the gopro would usually survive the ride.

There are plenty of situations where an iPhone is not the right camera for the job however where it does work it works well enough to produce a good quality photograph. Outside of its comfort zone it's pretty poor, so are most other cameras.

Most photos are not great from any camera but that's pretty much the fault of the photographer not the camera.
I think the ippa awards do show you can get good photos with an iphone if you know what you are doing.

Even a Mcdonalds meal will taste good if you are hungry enough

Reply
Feb 22, 2019 16:49:58   #
blackest Loc: Ireland
 
Bipod wrote:
BTW, Canon is very happy to tell you what material each element in a Canon lens is made from--
and give you a cross-sectional view of the lens design. Plus test resuls and MTF graphs.

That's because Canon is proud of its materials and designs. It has nothing to hide.
In fact, Canon publishes an excellent book, Canon Lens Work III: The Eyes of EOS
that contains all this and more.

And the specs for every Canon camera include the preceise dimensions of the sensor.
If it's FF it says so; if it's APS-C it says so.

But technopolies like Apple and Google can't seem to make a single statement without
engaging in marketing hype
BTW, Canon is very happy to tell you what material... (show quote)


To be fair they are marketing EOS to photographers , who actually care about these things. You will find much less on their more consumer camera models. Which they seem to sell on mega pixel count and zoom capability. They are not so keen to give aperture sizes shutter speeds or sensor sizes. The stuff which we eat up as photographers.

They all market their stuff, the approach differs with the product.

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