Selling Photos
Feb 8, 2019 08:49:50 #
PixelStan77 wrote:
Welcome to the forum. In your situation, I feel $25 an image for the winery is more than reasonable..in plain words cheap for professional work. I would up the charge to the winery for $50 an image for their website and for downloads, I would charge by print size.
That could also be a very reasonable price for a business to pay. Businesses are used to paying high prices. This is not a direct comparison, but five of us played our ukuleles at a fancy wedding, and the guy doing the business end asked for, and received, $400 for about an hour of playing. When he said he was going to ask for $400, I thought that was ridiculous, but the father of the bride didn't even blink. We each walked away with $80 cash and had a lot of fun (and food).
As the OP said, "well, that depends."
Lots of variables.Feb 8, 2019 08:58:31 #
@Gene51 Thank you for your insight and links. Sold one photo from my current photo exhibit for $225 11 x 14. Not bad!
kaitoo/daniel
kaitoo/daniel
Feb 8, 2019 09:02:03 #
@riffmax Thanks for the reminder about private versus public use!
k a i t o o/daniel
k a i t o o/daniel
Feb 8, 2019 09:38:21 #
lots of personal opinions thus far... some actually have a tad of merit...
Professional Advice...
ASMP Licensing Guide https://www.asmp.org/professional-development/licensing-guide/
ASMP Details on Creative Fees https://www.asmp.org/professional-development/pricing-guides/details-creative-fee/
Please consider joining this organization... provided you meet ASMP requirements...
I was sponsored into membership long ago... It has been a fountainhead of wisdom and paid assignments...
Food for thought Pete B... our studio policy is to not accept work from any organization involved with tobacco; alcohol or firearms... i.e. "be the change that you wish to see in the world" Mahatma Gandhi
Professional Advice...
ASMP Licensing Guide https://www.asmp.org/professional-development/licensing-guide/
ASMP Details on Creative Fees https://www.asmp.org/professional-development/pricing-guides/details-creative-fee/
Please consider joining this organization... provided you meet ASMP requirements...
I was sponsored into membership long ago... It has been a fountainhead of wisdom and paid assignments...
Food for thought Pete B... our studio policy is to not accept work from any organization involved with tobacco; alcohol or firearms... i.e. "be the change that you wish to see in the world" Mahatma Gandhi
Feb 8, 2019 10:49:51 #
For years I had images on a website that was a stock agency. Their fees to buyers were based on usage - number of publications and length of time used. They had tight controls so there weren't many abuses of their system. The internet usage I experienced was an annual payment of $500 to $1000 per image, depending on the number of hits. My contract also included a clause stating that I would be given first opportunity for replacement images when they updated the website. The fee for printed matter usage depended on quantity runs and average $25 to $500 per run.
It might be wise for you to consult current stock agencies and people in this business before naming a price. One of the problems in this industry today is that "everyone is a photographer" and many agencies are now wanting images for free as so many people are happy to see their images used and will settle for the publicity. Unfortunately, this attitude makes it difficult for professional photographers to continue to make a living in this industry.
By the same token, I do admit that I have several times offered imaging to friends' companies at start-up for their websites and brochures at a reduced rate. However, as their companies grew, my fees grew also, and my contract with them stated that.
My best advice is to have a firm, detailed contract.
It might be wise for you to consult current stock agencies and people in this business before naming a price. One of the problems in this industry today is that "everyone is a photographer" and many agencies are now wanting images for free as so many people are happy to see their images used and will settle for the publicity. Unfortunately, this attitude makes it difficult for professional photographers to continue to make a living in this industry.
By the same token, I do admit that I have several times offered imaging to friends' companies at start-up for their websites and brochures at a reduced rate. However, as their companies grew, my fees grew also, and my contract with them stated that.
My best advice is to have a firm, detailed contract.
Feb 8, 2019 11:01:06 #
@Thomas902
Thank you for your sound advice and I will look onto the links and organizations you have shared. How does one get sponsored or should I see if I meet requirements first?
k a i t o o/daniel
Thank you for your sound advice and I will look onto the links and organizations you have shared. How does one get sponsored or should I see if I meet requirements first?
k a i t o o/daniel
Feb 8, 2019 11:04:10 #
@Azpiclady Thank you for advice too. Any place one should particularly look for guidence on a conctract?
k a i t o o/daniel
k a i t o o/daniel
Feb 8, 2019 11:36:18 #
kaitoo212 wrote:
@Azpiclady Thank you for advice too. Any place one should particularly look for guidence on a conctract?
k a i t o o/daniel
k a i t o o/daniel
You might visit some stock agencies and look at their contracts. They actually usually have two: one for the artists who submit images, and another for the buyers.
Feb 8, 2019 12:37:22 #
Pete B wrote:
Greetings all!! My first post, so hopefully no mi... (show quote)
Welcome Pete to UHH. You are in the right place to ask questions and contribute your experiences. Members will respond with various amounts of advice and opinions, some of which will be diametrically opposite to each other. Do not be surprised by this, there is a lot of passion amongst us about a variety of photography issues. Just pick and choose the responses that you like and find helpful. My advice on your topic is to consider joining the Professional Photographers Association (PPA). They have a ton of good business advice and services to help you be successful.
Feb 8, 2019 12:48:55 #
After retirement from a career of commercial and industrial photography, I can tell you that nobody, and I mean nobody charges on a per image basis. We all charged an hourly rate, portal to portal, and in the film days we charged around $20 for a roll of film, unprocessed.
Who charged by the image? Amateurs.
Oh, and the advice is good to get in the ASMP. PPA is strongly directed to wedding and portrait photographers, which is an entirely different business from commercial, which is what you are doing.
Who charged by the image? Amateurs.
Oh, and the advice is good to get in the ASMP. PPA is strongly directed to wedding and portrait photographers, which is an entirely different business from commercial, which is what you are doing.
Feb 8, 2019 13:53:52 #
amfoto1
Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA
Properframe wrote:
Walk out to the parking lot. Is the owner driving a Porsche or a pickup? Price accordingly.
Hah!
Not necessarily, though.
Many years ago I met Sam Walton, founder of Walmart. He wandered in through the back door of the Colorado newspaper I was working at and no one recognized him initially. He just hung around observing for a while. He was wearing well-worn denim bib overalls and driving a Ford F150 pickup.
That was in the early years of Walmart. He was only worth many millions at that time, not billions yet.
In fact, Walton continued to drive the same truck until he passed away in 1992:
https://walmartmuseum.auth.cap-hosting.com/tour/exhibits/sams-truck/
Feb 8, 2019 14:16:38 #
Bill P wrote:
After retirement from a career of commercial and i... (show quote)
I'm not trying to be argumentative here. If I'm doing a shoot for someone, then yes, it's charged by the hour. But if I'm licensing for use of one of my images for publication, then it's by the image.
Feb 8, 2019 14:54:39 #
There are many misconceptions about commercial photography in the areas of pricing, practices, marketing, and organizations.
Organizations: Photographic association may have some pricing guides, however, they are non-specific to every photographer's market conditions, quality output, overhead expenses, lifestyle and income requirements. That is why their price guidelines can only begin to serve as a vague or very generalized idea or a format for a price schedule but the numbers need to be your own, extracted from your own circumstances.
Just for your information- The ASMP deals mostly with issues and rates for MEDIA photographers. It used to be called the America Society of Magazine Photographers- now the "mM" is for media. The P.P. of A does have many members who are commercial and Industrial Photographers. Membership in these organizations do have their benefits but pricing has to be formulated on an individual basis. Remember, these are not guilds of unions, there are no minimums or collective bargaining. In Canada, the P.P.O.C. had to issue it's price guides in a specific format indicating "Low, Middle and High rates based on gathering statistics from its members, otherwise, a set price or rate could be considered price fixing by the Competition Commission. At one time tried to publish such a guide for new photographers and we got a whole bunch of guys with briefcases- investigators. One of the non-members thought we were trying to fix prices and called the government. They came and went away!
Businesses are not necessarily used to paying high prices for everything unless there is perceived value. Many otherwise business-savvy folks have no idea as to the costs and value in professional photography, especially if they don't use professional photographic services on a regular basis. Part of the sales and marketing job of the photographer is to educate and familiarize potential clients with the benefits of attractive imagery that will create interest and desire for the products and services. I have encountered may successful and smart business folks who believe that we just come in with a camera around our neck and "snap" pictures. They have to be familiarized with the process and most importantly be impressed with your portfolio- seeing is believing. Many of my clients are surprised and impressed with the equipment we bring in, the painstaking approach to the work, the way we set things up and of course, the results.
When I am asked for a price quotation on any job, I need to know exactly what needs to be done. Folks are used to that- they know that the can't just say "how much do you charge to finish a basement, fix a car or erect a fence, or whatever, without the specifics and expect a real estimate or a valid quotation for a customized job.
The prices of stock photography have nothing to to with customized, specific or personalized service work. Stock agencies are selling generic images on an non-exclusive bases to a mass market. The commercial photographer is usually creating exclusive imagery which is only of value to each individual client.
Pictures for a winery can be product shots, industrial shots of the plant or ongoing processes. The job could entail images of people at work, portraits of the principals, exterior views of the plant or vineyards? The product shots could be simple or more thematic illustrations that include props, atmosphere and/or models. The COLOR of wine is important- it may require detailed and precise transillumination. Glass bottles and sometimes metallic labels required special lighting.
The astute commercial photographer has to be in a constant learning experience. Until I started shooting food and beverages, I knew nothing about wine. I don't drink any alcohol- never acquired the taste! The kosher wine I knew as a kid, tasted like cough syrup and the hard stuff (booze) tasted and smelled like my mom's nail polish remover! Grandpa's home-made vodka was like cleaning fluid. I still don't drink but now I know about color, bouquet, petulance, and all that wine connoisseur stuff- at least the part that has to do with visual appearance. Before to me, it all looked like water, yellow soda, Mercurochrome (antiseptic) or red ink- now I know the differences. It takes time to consult with the clients- if you have the product knowledge it will show up in the images.
Alright- I did some work for a medical nuclear energy corporation- the technology there was "way above my pay rate"- no nuclear physicist am I. I just had to make the machinery look impressive and remember not to touch the radioisotopes that were being dispensed from one of the devices.
Organizations: Photographic association may have some pricing guides, however, they are non-specific to every photographer's market conditions, quality output, overhead expenses, lifestyle and income requirements. That is why their price guidelines can only begin to serve as a vague or very generalized idea or a format for a price schedule but the numbers need to be your own, extracted from your own circumstances.
Just for your information- The ASMP deals mostly with issues and rates for MEDIA photographers. It used to be called the America Society of Magazine Photographers- now the "mM" is for media. The P.P. of A does have many members who are commercial and Industrial Photographers. Membership in these organizations do have their benefits but pricing has to be formulated on an individual basis. Remember, these are not guilds of unions, there are no minimums or collective bargaining. In Canada, the P.P.O.C. had to issue it's price guides in a specific format indicating "Low, Middle and High rates based on gathering statistics from its members, otherwise, a set price or rate could be considered price fixing by the Competition Commission. At one time tried to publish such a guide for new photographers and we got a whole bunch of guys with briefcases- investigators. One of the non-members thought we were trying to fix prices and called the government. They came and went away!
Businesses are not necessarily used to paying high prices for everything unless there is perceived value. Many otherwise business-savvy folks have no idea as to the costs and value in professional photography, especially if they don't use professional photographic services on a regular basis. Part of the sales and marketing job of the photographer is to educate and familiarize potential clients with the benefits of attractive imagery that will create interest and desire for the products and services. I have encountered may successful and smart business folks who believe that we just come in with a camera around our neck and "snap" pictures. They have to be familiarized with the process and most importantly be impressed with your portfolio- seeing is believing. Many of my clients are surprised and impressed with the equipment we bring in, the painstaking approach to the work, the way we set things up and of course, the results.
When I am asked for a price quotation on any job, I need to know exactly what needs to be done. Folks are used to that- they know that the can't just say "how much do you charge to finish a basement, fix a car or erect a fence, or whatever, without the specifics and expect a real estimate or a valid quotation for a customized job.
The prices of stock photography have nothing to to with customized, specific or personalized service work. Stock agencies are selling generic images on an non-exclusive bases to a mass market. The commercial photographer is usually creating exclusive imagery which is only of value to each individual client.
Pictures for a winery can be product shots, industrial shots of the plant or ongoing processes. The job could entail images of people at work, portraits of the principals, exterior views of the plant or vineyards? The product shots could be simple or more thematic illustrations that include props, atmosphere and/or models. The COLOR of wine is important- it may require detailed and precise transillumination. Glass bottles and sometimes metallic labels required special lighting.
The astute commercial photographer has to be in a constant learning experience. Until I started shooting food and beverages, I knew nothing about wine. I don't drink any alcohol- never acquired the taste! The kosher wine I knew as a kid, tasted like cough syrup and the hard stuff (booze) tasted and smelled like my mom's nail polish remover! Grandpa's home-made vodka was like cleaning fluid. I still don't drink but now I know about color, bouquet, petulance, and all that wine connoisseur stuff- at least the part that has to do with visual appearance. Before to me, it all looked like water, yellow soda, Mercurochrome (antiseptic) or red ink- now I know the differences. It takes time to consult with the clients- if you have the product knowledge it will show up in the images.
Alright- I did some work for a medical nuclear energy corporation- the technology there was "way above my pay rate"- no nuclear physicist am I. I just had to make the machinery look impressive and remember not to touch the radioisotopes that were being dispensed from one of the devices.
Feb 8, 2019 14:58:24 #
jdubu
Loc: San Jose, CA
AzPicLady wrote:
I'm not trying to be argumentative here. If I'm doing a shoot for someone, then yes, it's charged by the hour. But if I'm licensing for use of one of my images for publication, then it's by the image.
I agree, not to be argumentative. I have an hourly rate, a half day rate and a full day rate. But for interior designers and architects/builders, I charge a minimum to bring my gear which includes 2 finished photos. Any additional photos are priced separately at a slightly lower rate, usually $50 less per. I can average setups to 20-30 minutes per composition, rarely do I spend longer than that. PP may take 15 minutes, so my hourly rate cannot approach what I make per photo for these clients even if I spent 60 or 90 minutes on setting up, shooting and editing.
Feb 8, 2019 15:24:59 #
jdubu
Loc: San Jose, CA
E.L.. Shapiro wrote:
Alright- I did some work for a medical nuclear energy corporation- the technology there was "way above my pay rate"- no nuclear physicist am I. I just had to make the machinery look impressive and remember not to touch the radioisotopes that were being dispensed from one of the devices.
Alright- I did some work for a medical nuclear energy corporation- the technology there was "way above my pay rate"- no nuclear physicist am I. I just had to make the machinery look impressive and remember not to touch the radioisotopes that were being dispensed from one of the devices.
You must have cut a dashing figure with your photo equipment while in a radiation suit! Now I know why your posted photo examples have that glow.
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