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Blurring on right side of image
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Jan 9, 2019 20:56:01   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
JohnFrim wrote:
I use a Sony SLT A-57 with the Sony 18-250 3.5-6.3 zoom lens for most of my photography. While I am generally pleased with the results, I occasionally get images that are distinctly blurred on the right hand side. This happens unpredictably under circumstances where the image should clearly be in focus all the way across the image. I have attached a few images below to demonstrate the issue.

I am wondering whether anyone with similar kit has had a similar problem and has had it fixed successfully.

I have been thinking of doing an extensive evaluation of the problem, but the effort looks pretty daunting. The following are factors that I suspect could influence the outcome, and the number of combinations to check would be huge.

First, some of what I believe are non-issues:

1) the field of view is flat
- I am positioned perpendicular to the field of view (like a wall)
- DOF should not be an issue for L & R objects at the same distance from the camera

2) camera movement is essentially zero
- I am using a good tripod (MeFoto Road Trip) at less than full extension and centre post not raised
- there is little if any wind (interior shots also have the blur problem)
- I use 2 second delay to trip the shutter

3) shutter and shutter speed issues
- the SLT camera has a translucent mirror, so no mirror slap
- I use electronic first curtain, so no shutter movement at start of image recording
- would require multiple shots to check out all shutter speeds just to be sure

Possible image sensor issues:

4) sensor not aligned perpendicularly to the optical axis
- but then why are some images OK?

5) image stabilization system not working correctly
- could try ON and OFF conditions, but even in the ON position the amount and direction of corrective movement may vary

6) stabilization is turned ON while camera is on tripod
- yes, that would be my fault, but I have definitely had it OFF and still get the blur
- I also know I have had it ON and did NOT get blur

Possible lens issues:

7) elements misaligned
- this would be a huge problem to check, because some images are fine

8) elements move for focus and for zoom
- would require taking shots at multiple zoom settings at many different focus distances to check for interaction
- I thought the problem would be mostly at wide angles, but I have included a full-wide shot at 18 mm that has similar sharpness on L & R sides

9) interaction with aperture settings
- DOF could be a factor, but most of my setups have a flat field and should not be soft due to DOF
- most scenery/architecture shots are on tripod and f8 to f11, so near sweet spot for aperture
- would require taking shots at multiple apertures to check for a problem

10) in-camera image processing to JPEG (software)
- even raw images are blurred, so I suspect this is not an issue


As you can see the number of combinations to shoot would be daunting, to say the least.

Another option is to search my images and pull out those where there is a problem, as well as those that could have had a problem but did not, and then look through the EXIF data for a pattern (zoom setting, focus distance, aperture, shutter speed, stabilization setting, etc). Again, huge effort.

Apart from my question as to whether anyone has had a similar problem and had it fixed, have I missed something obvious as to possible cause? Any suggestions of how to narrow down all the possible combinations to zero in on the likely problem? Would a camera repair facility be able to zero in the problem or would I probably get a general overhaul followed by a 30 day warranty on the service, during which time I may or may not encounter the problem again?

And NO, I don't need suggestions to scrap the Sony and go Canon or Nikon. If I ditch the A-57 I would go for the new Sony mirrorless anyway.

Thanks for any help/guidance.
I use a Sony SLT A-57 with the Sony 18-250 3.5-6.3... (show quote)


De-centered lens element(s). . .

I went through 5 copies of a Sigma 10-20mm F4-5.6 zoom before I got one that was consistent across the frame.

Reply
Jan 9, 2019 21:01:28   #
JohnFrim Loc: Somewhere in the Great White North.
 
Gene51 wrote:
De-centered lens element(s). . .

I went through 5 copies of a Sigma 10-20mm F4-5.6 zoom before I got one that was consistent across the frame.

Scary, but probably the right answer. The hit/miss nature of the issue is likely related to focus/zoom combinations.

Do you think a repair facility can check that easily on an optical bench?

Reply
Jan 9, 2019 22:13:14   #
rb61 Loc: Maple Grove, MN
 
larryepage wrote:
Any chance that lens might have been bumped or dropped somewhere along the way? Do you feel any unusual play between the two sections as you zoom it in or out? Sometimes it doesn't take much of an impact to make something loose that was tight or to make something crooked that was straight. I agree that if this is an IS lens, that might be a suspect area, but I'm guessing that your IS is in the camera. Things wouldn't have to move a lot or be very loose to allow elements to be out of place enough to disturb the ability to focus properly.
Any chance that lens might have been bumped or dro... (show quote)


+ 1

Reply
 
 
Jan 10, 2019 01:00:43   #
Grahame Loc: Fiji
 
Have you checked the lens rear mount fixing screws ?

I read some time ago that this was the source of a similar problem someone had with OOF on one side due to a couple of 'loose' screws after a drop.

Reply
Jan 10, 2019 04:00:00   #
Bipod
 
JohnFrim wrote:
I know that I have often left IS in the ON state when I put the camera on the tripod (I keep it ON for handheld shots, and turning if OFF means visiting the menu system; damn... why isn't there a tripod detector in the base of the camera!!!).

But here are two shots taken seconds apart with IS turned OFF both times, camera on a tripod. The main difference is that the second was taken with flash and auto-ISO. This altered ISO, shutter speed, aperture and metering pattern; all else stayed the same ( including zoom focal length and focus distance). The surprising thing is that the blurrier image was shot with a significantly higher shutter speed, so I really don't think camera movement is a factor at all.

There is some difference in the degree of blur on the right between the two images, probably related to aperture. But the point I am making is the IS was OFF in both images, yet there is a problem with the RH side of the photos.
I know that I have often left IS in the ON state w... (show quote)


On or off, IS is still in the optical path. I'm not saying the problem is
camera shake or that IS is on. I'm saying IS is broken and it's affecting your
image even when IS is turned off.

I don't know anything about Sony's implementation, but I'd guess it's similar
to Nikon's (VR) and Canon's: a floating lens element that is actuated by
electromagnets. When it's turned off, the the floating lens is supposed to
return to the center position and not move. It rorates in two axes---if one
of them is sticking, you might not notice unless it suddenly unstuck and
moved. Vibration caused by the shutter might be the trigger.

Generally, features that you don't use can hurt you in most optical and
mechanical systems.

Reply
Jan 10, 2019 07:07:58   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
JohnFrim wrote:
... as opposed to a graticle on your contact lens? Never get lost, regerate on their own. Cool!!!

Yup. (Professors thought it as neat(funny) that I would put answers down as four digits or five non-zero digits. Referred to it as Calibrated Eyelashes".)
The graticule might also work.

Reply
Jan 10, 2019 09:50:43   #
olemikey Loc: 6 mile creek, Spacecoast Florida
 
Have you determined that the sensor is always returning to the same place after each shot? I have two older A model (A300) bought used and cheap, one has an occasional issue with the sensor not returning to exactly where it needs to be, usually it will clear up on the next shot, the other I have to leave the IBIS off as it is unreliable with sensor returning to proper spot after IBIS functions (both cameras have a lot of rough miles on them, btw) they have been through the ringer, rode hard. I never had either examined by a shop due to age and I don't use them as much anymore. Note: with the IBIS issue on these two cameras, there is sometimes a change in lighting across the exposure (where it should be even), but more pronounced is a slight tilt to the picture that you can sometimes see on the LCD (it can be slight, or very tilted).

It could be dirt interfering with sensor return to optimum position, or the IBIS could be starting to malfunction, and I would definitely look very carefully through the lens (off camera) for anything that looks out of whack. I have not had the same issue with my A37 or A58 (>12K & <5K clicks), but they have been treated very well and kept very clean. If you get this blur with any other lens I'd start looking internal to camera body, if not, look harder at the lens. Clean the electrical connections between camera and lens too.

Don't know if any of this is helpful, but wish you luck in your efforts to conquer the problem.

Reply
 
 
Jan 10, 2019 09:52:55   #
olemikey Loc: 6 mile creek, Spacecoast Florida
 
Bipod wrote:
On or off, IS is still in the optical path. I'm not saying the problem is
camera shake or that IS is on. I'm saying IS is broken and it's affecting your
image even when IS is turned off.

I don't know anything about Sony's implementation, but I'd guess it's similar
to Nikon's (VR) and Canon's: a floating lens element that is actuated by
electromagnets. When it's turned off, the the floating lens is supposed to
return to the center position and not move. It rorates in two axes---if one
of them is sticking, you might not notice unless it suddenly unstuck and
moved. Vibration caused by the shutter might be the trigger.

Generally, features that you don't use can hurt you in most optical and
mechanical systems.
On or off, IS is still in the optical path. I'm n... (show quote)


I think in the case of the Sony IBIS, the sensor is the "floating" element, so to speak, there is no IS in the Sony lenses that I have.

Reply
Jan 10, 2019 09:54:24   #
olemikey Loc: 6 mile creek, Spacecoast Florida
 
Gene51 wrote:
De-centered lens element(s). . .

I went through 5 copies of a Sigma 10-20mm F4-5.6 zoom before I got one that was consistent across the frame.


Another big possibility, and the 18-250 could easily fall into that realm.

Reply
Jan 10, 2019 12:12:12   #
CatMarley Loc: North Carolina
 
JohnFrim wrote:
I use a Sony SLT A-57 with the Sony 18-250 3.5-6.3 zoom lens for most of my photography. While I am generally pleased with the results, I occasionally get images that are distinctly blurred on the right hand side. This happens unpredictably under circumstances where the image should clearly be in focus all the way across the image. I have attached a few images below to demonstrate the issue.

I am wondering whether anyone with similar kit has had a similar problem and has had it fixed successfully.

I have been thinking of doing an extensive evaluation of the problem, but the effort looks pretty daunting. The following are factors that I suspect could influence the outcome, and the number of combinations to check would be huge.

First, some of what I believe are non-issues:

1) the field of view is flat
- I am positioned perpendicular to the field of view (like a wall)
- DOF should not be an issue for L & R objects at the same distance from the camera

2) camera movement is essentially zero
- I am using a good tripod (MeFoto Road Trip) at less than full extension and centre post not raised
- there is little if any wind (interior shots also have the blur problem)
- I use 2 second delay to trip the shutter

3) shutter and shutter speed issues
- the SLT camera has a translucent mirror, so no mirror slap
- I use electronic first curtain, so no shutter movement at start of image recording
- would require multiple shots to check out all shutter speeds just to be sure

Possible image sensor issues:

4) sensor not aligned perpendicularly to the optical axis
- but then why are some images OK?

5) image stabilization system not working correctly
- could try ON and OFF conditions, but even in the ON position the amount and direction of corrective movement may vary

6) stabilization is turned ON while camera is on tripod
- yes, that would be my fault, but I have definitely had it OFF and still get the blur
- I also know I have had it ON and did NOT get blur

Possible lens issues:

7) elements misaligned
- this would be a huge problem to check, because some images are fine

8) elements move for focus and for zoom
- would require taking shots at multiple zoom settings at many different focus distances to check for interaction
- I thought the problem would be mostly at wide angles, but I have included a full-wide shot at 18 mm that has similar sharpness on L & R sides

9) interaction with aperture settings
- DOF could be a factor, but most of my setups have a flat field and should not be soft due to DOF
- most scenery/architecture shots are on tripod and f8 to f11, so near sweet spot for aperture
- would require taking shots at multiple apertures to check for a problem

10) in-camera image processing to JPEG (software)
- even raw images are blurred, so I suspect this is not an issue


As you can see the number of combinations to shoot would be daunting, to say the least.

Another option is to search my images and pull out those where there is a problem, as well as those that could have had a problem but did not, and then look through the EXIF data for a pattern (zoom setting, focus distance, aperture, shutter speed, stabilization setting, etc). Again, huge effort.

Apart from my question as to whether anyone has had a similar problem and had it fixed, have I missed something obvious as to possible cause? Any suggestions of how to narrow down all the possible combinations to zero in on the likely problem? Would a camera repair facility be able to zero in the problem or would I probably get a general overhaul followed by a 30 day warranty on the service, during which time I may or may not encounter the problem again?

And NO, I don't need suggestions to scrap the Sony and go Canon or Nikon. If I ditch the A-57 I would go for the new Sony mirrorless anyway.

Thanks for any help/guidance.
I use a Sony SLT A-57 with the Sony 18-250 3.5-6.3... (show quote)


With these small images, I can't see the blur you are talking about. Why not include some examples we can download a full pixel image so we could really see a difference as you seem to.

Reply
Jan 10, 2019 12:14:09   #
JohnFrim Loc: Somewhere in the Great White North.
 
olemikey wrote:
I think in the case of the Sony IBIS, the sensor is the "floating" element, so to speak, there is no IS in the Sony lenses that I have.

Correct, I should have been more careful to call it IBIS rather than just IS; I guess I was wrong in assuming most folks know that Sony uses IBIS.

A later post mentions the possibility that the sensor is not returning to the correct rest position between shots and that it might be sitting off-axis for some shots (IBIS ON or OFF). I accept that as a possibility, but I certainly have no way of checking that. I suppose there could be dirt under the sensor, but I rarely change lenses and I am very careful with my camera gear, so even that should be an unlikely thing. The camera periodically goes through a self-cleaning cycle on power-down, which I expect would dislodge grit under the sensor. But who knows... I can't dismiss this one outright.

Does anyone know the range of movement of the sensor during stabilization?

Reply
 
 
Jan 10, 2019 12:17:54   #
JohnFrim Loc: Somewhere in the Great White North.
 
CatMarley wrote:
With these small images, I can't see the blur you are talking about. Why not include some examples we can download a full pixel image so we could really see a difference as you seem to.

Yes, I should have stored the originals from the first set, but the second pair of images can be downloaded for you to see the problem. In the first set I did included 100% crops of L & R of a blurred image (#'s 5 & 6) in a side-by-side, so you can see the problem there.

Reply
Jan 10, 2019 12:27:41   #
olemikey Loc: 6 mile creek, Spacecoast Florida
 
JohnFrim wrote:
Correct, I should have been more careful to call it IBIS rather than just IS; I guess I was wrong in assuming most folks know that Sony uses IBIS.

A later post mentions the possibility that the sensor is not returning to the correct rest position between shots and that it might be sitting off-axis for some shots (IBIS ON or OFF). I accept that as a possibility, but I certainly have no way of checking that. I suppose there could be dirt under the sensor, but I rarely change lenses and I am very careful with my camera gear, so even that should be an unlikely thing. The camera periodically goes through a self-cleaning cycle on power-down, which I expect would dislodge grit under the sensor. But who knows... I can't dismiss this one outright.

Does anyone know the range of movement of the sensor during stabilization?
Correct, I should have been more careful to call i... (show quote)


My two older Sony bodies have a more pronounced "shake, rattle and roll" sensor movement during cleaning, less during IBIS action, but you can often feel it, the two newer bodies (A37 and A58) much less, cleaning shake is very minimal if you can feel it at all, you can't really feel the IBIS action like on the older ones. I have experienced the sensor off-axis actually being visible in EVF or on LCD. With those, I usually fire another shot and if all looks good I just turn off the IBIS, and it will stay in place for some time (won't change on it's own). I only use those two bodies now for remote/radio controlled tripod shots, and have it off when doing that, so not much of a problem now. I have watched the movement with the lens off and no cap on the older models and it does move around a bit while vibrating.

Reply
Jan 10, 2019 12:28:02   #
dsmeltz Loc: Philadelphia
 
Bill_de wrote:
Camera strap infringing on the FOV?

If that's not it, get a Nikon.

You asked for that.

--


JohnFrim wrote:
Your kidding, right... on both points!!! I can assure that the camera strap is not an issue.


Don't worry. This camera strap thing is probably a common Nikon user problem that the Bill_de is simply assuming affects other photographers.

Reply
Jan 10, 2019 17:42:03   #
Dennis833 Loc: Australia
 
This is a very common problem. One or more optical lens elements in your lens have either moved or tilted from the principal axis of the lens. This tilting of lens elements can potentially lead to blurring and softness in an area of the image due to divergence of light rays.
JohnFrim wrote:
I use a Sony SLT A-57 with the Sony 18-250 3.5-6.3 zoom lens for most of my photography. While I am generally pleased with the results, I occasionally get images that are distinctly blurred on the right hand side. This happens unpredictably under circumstances where the image should clearly be in focus all the way across the image. I have attached a few images below to demonstrate the issue.

I am wondering whether anyone with similar kit has had a similar problem and has had it fixed successfully.

I have been thinking of doing an extensive evaluation of the problem, but the effort looks pretty daunting. The following are factors that I suspect could influence the outcome, and the number of combinations to check would be huge.

First, some of what I believe are non-issues:

1) the field of view is flat
- I am positioned perpendicular to the field of view (like a wall)
- DOF should not be an issue for L & R objects at the same distance from the camera

2) camera movement is essentially zero
- I am using a good tripod (MeFoto Road Trip) at less than full extension and centre post not raised
- there is little if any wind (interior shots also have the blur problem)
- I use 2 second delay to trip the shutter

3) shutter and shutter speed issues
- the SLT camera has a translucent mirror, so no mirror slap
- I use electronic first curtain, so no shutter movement at start of image recording
- would require multiple shots to check out all shutter speeds just to be sure

Possible image sensor issues:

4) sensor not aligned perpendicularly to the optical axis
- but then why are some images OK?

5) image stabilization system not working correctly
- could try ON and OFF conditions, but even in the ON position the amount and direction of corrective movement may vary

6) stabilization is turned ON while camera is on tripod
- yes, that would be my fault, but I have definitely had it OFF and still get the blur
- I also know I have had it ON and did NOT get blur

Possible lens issues:

7) elements misaligned
- this would be a huge problem to check, because some images are fine

8) elements move for focus and for zoom
- would require taking shots at multiple zoom settings at many different focus distances to check for interaction
- I thought the problem would be mostly at wide angles, but I have included a full-wide shot at 18 mm that has similar sharpness on L & R sides

9) interaction with aperture settings
- DOF could be a factor, but most of my setups have a flat field and should not be soft due to DOF
- most scenery/architecture shots are on tripod and f8 to f11, so near sweet spot for aperture
- would require taking shots at multiple apertures to check for a problem

10) in-camera image processing to JPEG (software)
- even raw images are blurred, so I suspect this is not an issue


As you can see the number of combinations to shoot would be daunting, to say the least.

Another option is to search my images and pull out those where there is a problem, as well as those that could have had a problem but did not, and then look through the EXIF data for a pattern (zoom setting, focus distance, aperture, shutter speed, stabilization setting, etc). Again, huge effort.

Apart from my question as to whether anyone has had a similar problem and had it fixed, have I missed something obvious as to possible cause? Any suggestions of how to narrow down all the possible combinations to zero in on the likely problem? Would a camera repair facility be able to zero in the problem or would I probably get a general overhaul followed by a 30 day warranty on the service, during which time I may or may not encounter the problem again?

And NO, I don't need suggestions to scrap the Sony and go Canon or Nikon. If I ditch the A-57 I would go for the new Sony mirrorless anyway.

Thanks for any help/guidance.
I use a Sony SLT A-57 with the Sony 18-250 3.5-6.3... (show quote)

Reply
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