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Learned something new to me about exposure compensation
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Jan 12, 2019 21:36:32   #
pesfls
 
gessman wrote:
A very enlightening thread and my thanks to those who have participated. I think I used to use exp comp way back in film days, albeit a primitive version. I seem to recall having cameras that perpetually over and/or underexposed whatever film I was using so I would set asa/iso up or back a notch or two to compensate for the bad exposure and when I had a good meter but wanted to saturate my images, slides mostly, rather than dial in more or less of shutter speed or aperture to move the needle, I would just set the asa/iso dial back a notch. I'm sure I learned it from someone else so I suspect there are many of us here who used the same trick? I think I also did something like that if I wanted to push or pull a roll of film for some special reason.
A very enlightening thread and my thanks to those ... (show quote)


I remember those days. Was taught that by a newspaper photographer I knew. Nice fellow. Gone a few years ago now.

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Jan 18, 2019 11:10:09   #
selmslie (a regular here)
 
pesfls wrote:
... What I’ve noticed is that sometimes ec doesn’t seem to do anything I can see. After fiddling around with this I’ve learned that the phenomenon is related to shooting in full manual. What I now understand is that in full manual mode using the ec dial only changes the meter scale, not the exposure itself. ...

The key word in EC is "Compensation". The the suggested (full manual) or adjusted (auto anything) exposure needs to be adjusted to compensate for what the photographer feels is an the error in the reflected reading.

A reflective meter reading can come close if the scene has average reflectance but it will always be wrong otherwise - a little or a lot.

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Jan 18, 2019 13:00:27   #
HarryBinNC
 
Linda From Maine wrote:
According to the user manual for the Canon 7D Mark II, settings will only change in M if you are using auto ISO.


I'll bet that the Canons work the same as my non-Canon cameras that allow Exposure Comp with Auto ISO - the ISO changes up & down with the Compensation setting, leaving aperture and shutter undisturbed.

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Jan 18, 2019 14:01:11   #
BebuLamar (a regular here)
 
HarryBinNC wrote:
I'll bet that the Canons work the same as my non-Canon cameras that allow Exposure Comp with Auto ISO - the ISO changes up & down with the Compensation setting, leaving aperture and shutter undisturbed.


Nikon allows the Exposure Compensation to be used when in manual and manual ISO. A simpler design than the Canon's.

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Jan 19, 2019 06:40:10   #
Swamp-Cork
 
pesfls wrote:
That’s what happened in my case so I set about trying to understand what the heck was going on. I had turned off the histogram and that contributed to my confusion. It’s back on now in full color.


Paul, several hours after writing this I remembered that later I happen to look at my exposure dial and it was rotated about half-way between Manuel and Effects and think that the dial must have brushed against me while carrying the Nikon D7100 camera by the strap as it has happened several times in the past. Almost all of the time I shoot in manual but leave the iso in auto, sometimes setting a maximum for it and think that the exposure compensation does work in this setting!

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Jan 19, 2019 08:26:42   #
pesfls
 
Swamp-Cork wrote:
Paul, several hours after writing this I remembered that later I happen to look at my exposure dial and it was rotated about half-way between Manuel and Effects and think that the dial must have brushed against me while carrying the Nikon D7100 camera by the strap as it has happened several times in the past. Almost all of the time I shoot in manual but leave the iso in auto, sometimes setting a maximum for it and think that the exposure compensation does work in this setting!

Correct. My error was thinking it would with auto iso turned off also. Just a simple thoughtless oversight that was baffling me on occasion and would leave me confused as to why some exposures were funky. When I know there’s enough light to get a proper exposure and shooting something like birds, that are always moving around, I tend to use aperature priority or shutter as appropriate and set auto iso max at 1600, as the Df produces excellent clean detail at that iso. Part of my problem is that sometimes I forget about all these insane (but often useful) menu options available. I have finally taken up setting the body ser up via f controls to where much of what I might want to adjust can now be done with the dials and buttons. For example since I own several old manual lenses and a couple pre-ai ones I can select which one I’m going to mount by just turning a dial. Digging into the menus for such things is not my favorite thing to do. I have found the transition to digital a much bigger challenge than anticipated. Thanks for your observation.

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Jan 19, 2019 09:52:58   #
BebuLamar (a regular here)
 
pesfls wrote:
Correct. My error was thinking it would with auto iso turned off also. Just a simple thoughtless oversight that was baffling me on occasion and would leave me confused as to why some exposures were funky. When I know there’s enough light to get a proper exposure and shooting something like birds, that are always moving around, I tend to use aperature priority or shutter as appropriate and set auto iso max at 1600, as the Df produces excellent clean detail at that iso. Part of my problem is that sometimes I forget about all these insane (but often useful) menu options available. I have finally taken up setting the body ser up via f controls to where much of what I might want to adjust can now be done with the dials and buttons. For example since I own several old manual lenses and a couple pre-ai ones I can select which one I’m going to mount by just turning a dial. Digging into the menus for such things is not my favorite thing to do. I have found the transition to digital a much bigger challenge than anticipated. Thanks for your observation.
Correct. My error was thinking it would with auto... (show quote)


I just have my Df back from Nikon Service. It has the meter problem. They fixed it but also reset everything to default so I had to go thru the insane menu once again to set everything up the way I want it. After that I almost never use the menu.

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Jan 19, 2019 10:04:45   #
pesfls
 
BebuLamar wrote:
I just have my Df back from Nikon Service. It has the meter problem. They fixed it but also reset everything to default so I had to go thru the insane menu once again to set everything up the way I want it. After that I almost never use the menu.


Curious. Did they explain what was malfunctioning? I was on the phone with CRIS camera repair about my luna pro and during the course of conversation they said they have seen very few Dfs compared to the many other models out there. His comment was I think you made a good decision. And yes, all that menu business can be exasperating. Going through all the various f controls proved well worth the time fortunately.

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Jan 19, 2019 10:16:59   #
BebuLamar (a regular here)
 
pesfls wrote:
Curious. Did they explain what was malfunctioning? I was on the phone with CRIS camera repair about my luna pro and during the course of conversation they said they have seen very few Dfs compared to the many other models out there. His comment was I think you made a good decision. And yes, all that menu business can be exasperating. Going through all the various f controls proved well worth the time fortunately.


The meter when not in live view at times quit working and acts as if there is no light at all. It's so intermittent that I was very reluctant to send it in for repair. I finally sent it in last Dec and just got it back yesterday.
About the only thing they really fixed was to replace the "IMAGE CTL PCB". Other things like replace the rubber grip because they peeled it off to do the repair. Adjust exposure and AF it's kind of standard stuff and not related to the problem.

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Jan 19, 2019 16:27:52   #
Swamp-Cork
 
pesfls wrote:
Correct. My error was thinking it would with auto iso turned off also. Just a simple thoughtless oversight that was baffling me on occasion and would leave me confused as to why some exposures were funky. When I know there’s enough light to get a proper exposure and shooting something like birds, that are always moving around, I tend to use aperature priority or shutter as appropriate and set auto iso max at 1600, as the Df produces excellent clean detail at that iso. Part of my problem is that sometimes I forget about all these insane (but often useful) menu options available. I have finally taken up setting the body ser up via f controls to where much of what I might want to adjust can now be done with the dials and buttons. For example since I own several old manual lenses and a couple pre-ai ones I can select which one I’m going to mount by just turning a dial. Digging into the menus for such things is not my favorite thing to do. I have found the transition to digital a much bigger challenge than anticipated. Thanks for your observation.
Correct. My error was thinking it would with auto... (show quote)


You are welcome and most of the time I'm shooting birds and butterflies or other moving things and many times (seems like almost always) do not have enough light for the ideal shutter speed and aperture setting that I would like to use, so seem to be always dropping the shutter speed and/or opening the aperture setting if possible to keep the iso down but these are so important that sometimes I just let the iso increase.

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Jan 19, 2019 20:38:50   #
pesfls
 
Swamp-Cork wrote:
You are welcome and most of the time I'm shooting birds and butterflies or other moving things and many times (seems like almost always) do not have enough light for the ideal shutter speed and aperture setting that I would like to use, so seem to be always dropping the shutter speed and/or opening the aperture setting if possible to keep the iso down but these are so important that sometimes I just let the iso increase.


I don’t know what camera body you’re using and how it is affecting iso performance. My main reason for choosing the Df was it’s ability to perfectly function with nearly every lense Nikon has produced since the advent of the F model. Since I own numerous old ones from the late sixties and seventies that was a big attractor. Second was the body design that’s more like film models, hence I can shoot & adjust things that are closer in terms of handling to what I grew up on. The big surprise to me, after carefully looking at images taken with it is the quality of images that are far beyond iso speeds one could do using film. I used to shoot a lot of TriX and more PlusX without pushing. So very convenient and much to my liking compared to those days. I say all that because I’m curious at what upper iso you become displeased with what you get out of your body. Not a criticism just curiosity. I know well of making compromises in shutter and aperature settings. Thanks for your thoughts.

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Jan 19, 2019 23:38:02   #
Swamp-Cork
 
pesfls wrote:
I don’t know what camera body you’re using and how it is affecting iso performance. My main reason for choosing the Df was it’s ability to perfectly function with nearly every lense Nikon has produced since the advent of the F model. Since I own numerous old ones from the late sixties and seventies that was a big attractor. Second was the body design that’s more like film models, hence I can shoot & adjust things that are closer in terms of handling to what I grew up on. The big surprise to me, after carefully looking at images taken with it is the quality of images that are far beyond iso speeds one could do using film. I used to shoot a lot of TriX and more PlusX without pushing. So very convenient and much to my liking compared to those days. I say all that because I’m curious at what upper iso you become displeased with what you get out of your body. Not a criticism just curiosity. I know well of making compromises in shutter and aperature settings. Thanks for your thoughts.
I don’t know what camera body you’re using and how... (show quote)

Paul, I'm using a Nikon D7100 that I purchased around five years ago and it came with two lenses, a 18 -140 and a 55-300. Then when Tamron came out with a 150-600 a few years ago I went on the waiting list for the Nikon mount ones and use it mainly for most of the bird shots as I usually need the extra reach. I think that the camera does pretty well with low light and can handle routinely an iso of 1600 and have been surprised at some taken up to 6400 but of course like to keep it as low as possible but without more expensive glass light can be a problem. I really love the lttle 18-140 lens and in the summer when shooting close ups it stays on the camera a good part of the time and is fairly close and fast focusing! I do use the 55-300 sometimes when I need to stay back a little more, but it seems to take longer to focus but does ok and not thrilled with it--maybe because I don't use it that often! No complaints with the first generation Tamron 150-600 and have used it many times and it is fairly fast focusing! I love the D7100 and would only replace it if there was a major improvment in the low light handling cabilities of a DX Format camera. I have thought about the D500 but don't think that it's any better under low light conditions than the D7100 although it will shoot more frames/second. When I was very young my first camera was a bellows Agfa 120 format camera but really never seriously started back shooting until a few years ago as we were always interested in nature and birding and every once in a while would see a bird that I could not idenitify and decided to purchase a Cannon T3i so we could perhaps identify them later and you know what happened then! Take care!

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Jan 20, 2019 08:41:18   #
pesfls
 
Swamp-Cork wrote:
Paul, I'm using a Nikon D7100 that I purchased around five years ago and it came with two lenses, a 18 -140 and a 55-300. Then when Tamron came out with a 150-600 a few years ago I went on the waiting list for the Nikon mount ones and use it mainly for most of the bird shots as I usually need the extra reach. I think that the camera does pretty well with low light and can handle routinely an iso of 1600 and have been surprised at some taken up to 6400 but of course like to keep it as low as possible but without more expensive glass light can be a problem. I really love the lttle 18-140 lens and in the summer when shooting close ups it stays on the camera a good part of the time and is fairly close and fast focusing! I do use the 55-300 sometimes when I need to stay back a little more, but it seems to take longer to focus but does ok and not thrilled with it--maybe because I don't use it that often! No complaints with the first generation Tamron 150-600 and have used it many times and it is fairly fast focusing! I love the D7100 and would only replace it if there was a major improvment in the low light handling cabilities of a DX Format camera. I have thought about the D500 but don't think that it's any better under low light conditions than the D7100 although it will shoot more frames/second. When I was very young my first camera was a bellows Agfa 120 format camera but really never seriously started back shooting until a few years ago as we were always interested in nature and birding and every once in a while would see a bird that I could not idenitify and decided to purchase a Cannon T3i so we could perhaps identify them later and you know what happened then! Take care!
Paul, I'm using a Nikon D7100 that I purchased aro... (show quote)

I too have read a fair bit about the D500 and have shied away due to the descriptions of its low light abilities. Yet I have looked over numerous images from them that sure look great. Those super high frame rate capabilities don’t particularly interest me as I don’t do sports any more as the kids are long gone. The Df will shoot 5 fps so works fine for critters. Where we live most of the year outdoor light is low due to our marine climate so I’m sticking with the Df. I also have an Olympus micro 4/3 that makes great images but as you’ve noticed with small sensors low light ability is somewhat affected. I suspect you’re being wise with sticking with what you have. Take care.

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Jan 20, 2019 22:29:16   #
Swamp-Cork
 
pesfls wrote:
I too have read a fair bit about the D500 and have shied away due to the descriptions of its low light abilities. Yet I have looked over numerous images from them that sure look great. Those super high frame rate capabilities don’t particularly interest me as I don’t do sports any more as the kids are long gone. The Df will shoot 5 fps so works fine for critters. Where we live most of the year outdoor light is low due to our marine climate so I’m sticking with the Df. I also have an Olympus micro 4/3 that makes great images but as you’ve noticed with small sensors low light ability is somewhat affected. I suspect you’re being wise with sticking with what you have. Take care.
I too have read a fair bit about the D500 and have... (show quote)

Hi, Paul and on my first trip out using the D7100 under low light conditions I almost could not believe how much better it performed than the than the Canon t-3i and think from what that I've read that on that feature there's been little low light improvement in the D500 over the D7100 but even at that its very good. I'm just hoping that future models will show some significant low light improvement over the current ones, but they may not be able to make it happen. Speaking of high iso's I ran some up to about 4200 this afternoon as I was shooting some Buffleheads in the water about 200 feet from shore and had to keep the shutter speed up and also had nothing preset on it. I grabbed it and was quickly trying to exchange lenses and then had to reset the speed and activate the auto iso, as I had been trying to change the prefix on the numbering system to show the year 19 and in so doing had accidentally set the iso to 100 so was trying to make changes on the run as the ducks were moving around and time was of essence. I used the big lens handheld and set to 600 and hope to salvage a few viewable ones anyway, and looking at the camera viewer some do look fairly decent but small because of the distance. Oh well, If any turn out viewable will try to send you an image or two to give you an idea of how it handled the high iso... The temperature is really dropping tonight which will give us the coldest night so far this season and hope that the weather is not too bad in your location. Take care!

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Jan 20, 2019 22:43:47   #
pesfls
 
Swamp-Cork wrote:
Hi, Paul and on my first trip out using the D7100 under low light conditions I almost could not believe how much better it performed than the than the Canon t-3i and think from what that I've read that on that feature there's been little low light improvement in the D500 over the D7100 but even at that its very good. I'm just hoping that future models will show some significant low light improvement over the current ones, but they may not be able to make it happen. Speaking of high iso's I ran some up to about 4200 this afternoon as I was shooting some Buffleheads in the water about 200 feet from shore and had to keep the shutter speed up and also had nothing preset on it. I grabbed it and was quickly trying to exchange lenses and then had to reset the speed and activate the auto iso, as I had been trying to change the prefix on the numbering system to show the year 19 and in so doing had accidentally set the iso to 100 so was trying to make changes on the run as the ducks were moving around and time was of essence. I used the big lens handheld and set to 600 and hope to salvage a few viewable ones anyway, and looking at the camera viewer some do look fairly decent but small because of the distance. Oh well, If any turn out viewable will try to send you an image or two to give you an idea of how it handled the high iso... The temperature is really dropping tonight which will give us the coldest night so far this season and hope that the weather is not too bad in your location. Take care!
Hi, Paul and on my first trip out using the D7100 ... (show quote)

Thanks for the info. I read your description of your scrambles twice to make sure I got it. Sounds like it would’ve made a great comic strip! I’ve also goofed up the iso setting, so know of what you speak. I can’t see the moon show tonight, as per usual January here, the clouds and rain from the Pacific are in control and the sky is blank. I’ll look forward to seeing what you salvaged. I’m going to play around with the Df on critters when setting it to the crop factor to see what I think. If it’s to my liking maybe it’ll be a poor man’s 500. We’ll see. I’ll let you know. Thanks for the info.

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