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Are the amateur photographers losing the battle with cell phone cameras?
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Jan 7, 2019 10:21:25   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
radiojohn wrote:
I very much appreciate this discussion, as I need to talk a bit about photography on Public Radio in a week or so. I guess the bottom line is that the sports organization sells you tickets to watch the game, period.




They’ll sell you T-shirts and trinkets, too!

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Jan 7, 2019 10:47:44   #
saxman71 Loc: Wenatchee
 
I did not read each and every response thoroughly, but did anyone mention the fact it might be annoying to other speculators to have a person with a camera and long lens sitting next to them for three hours firing off 10 frames a second every time there's some good action on the sporting field. A concert would even be worse. Frankly, I think cell phones should be banned too. But for obvious reasons that would not really be possible.

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Jan 7, 2019 10:53:52   #
Real Nikon Lover Loc: Simi Valley, CA
 
It is indeed getting more difficult. I went to a Los Angeles County rural park and was at a dirt parking area taking photos of my car with my Nikon. A "volunteer" park patrolman pulled up, got out of his car, in my face and said to stop taking photos or I would be arrested!!! I questioned his authority considering he was not a peace officer nor did he have any weapon, badge etc. I was polite and did not raise my voice. He threatened to call the LA Sheriff because I did not have "permits" to do photography. Seems he thought I was a professional based on the camera size (D300).

After some discussion and additional exchange of info he changed his attitude and let me proceed. Had I been using a point and shoot or cell phone I am sure he wouldn't have stopped.

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Jan 7, 2019 10:55:30   #
peterg Loc: Santa Rosa, CA
 
There are some very capable point & shoot cameras. I doubt a security guard will make you verify the camera's maximum focal length of a point & shoot camera. If so, just play "stupid".

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Jan 7, 2019 11:01:24   #
Jersey guy Loc: New Joisey
 
Interspersed in this thread is a "900 lb gorilla inn the room" sort of subset of concern: the growing capability of cell phone cameras. We have already seen the appearance of a cell phone with more than one camera built in that has the ability to take semi-tele photos without the "empty magnification" of expanding the image on the screen with your fingers. With their vastly faster lens (f1.9 or better), and improving sensors (albeit always smaller than APS-C or FF), they are serious competition for DSLRs in many circumstances.

We have a local paper that publishes community related stuff monthly. The Publisher used to rely on staff with full size cameras, or free-lance voluteers, for photos of events. Now, cell phones produce images far more than merely adequate for reproducing in a newspaper. Who ever thought Kodak would bite the dust? Start wondering about the Canons and Nikons of the world.

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Jan 7, 2019 11:04:05   #
dennis2146 Loc: Eastern Idaho
 
burkphoto wrote:
It’s a phonetic spelling of a regional dialectic pronunciation of, “of course.”


Thanks. I thought so but have never seen it in print before. Probably never will again.

Dennis

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Jan 7, 2019 11:05:53   #
Fotoartist Loc: Detroit, Michigan
 
Brevity is next to godliness.
E.L.. Shapiro wrote:
Theses is no battle! Without permission, accreditation to a specific event or show, photographers, amateur OR all professional have no business at many venues and events. The rules are set by entertainment management, venue management, professions and amateur sports leagues and some have to do with propitiatory rights. Some of the rules have to do with safety of the athletes and the spectators. Some of the aforementioned officials and organizations extend certain courtesies at their option.

This does not mean that a competent amateur or pro photographer can't ever cover theses events but you must take the time to plan, go through channels and secure permission. Here are some logical ideas.

Many of the print publications, even the famous Sports Illustrated and the New York Daily News (New York's "PICTURE" Newspaper) have began to disband their salaried photographic staffs and are utilizing the services of FREELANCE photograhers or "stringers"! Ever think of becoming a "stringer" for you local paper or even a national publication?

You can volunteer your service to local sports teams- minor league teams, and high school or college athletic departments and build a portfolio. You can become accredited to some of theses farm teams or school teams and begin to work your way up. If you becom a stringer you MAY qualify for press credentials. You can do the same with amateur theatrical companies or smaller local theatre groups.

Even "press cards" do not give anyone free entry or run of the event. In New York City, official "Working Press" cards are issued by the police department, upon proof of media employment or accreditation, so photographers can gain access to certin vantage points at parades, public places and buildings, certain ceremonies, and may SOMETIMES cross fire or police lines. They are still somewhat supervised by officials and still need to have specific a permissions to certain private events. Certain press credentials issued by professional organizations kind of request courtesy be extended but there are no guarantees.

Of course there is the money aspect. Some organizations want to share in the profits that others earn from their events so they want to control who photographs their events or shows and what is going to be done with the pictures. The personages and images of sports and entertainment personalities are "commodities" that theses folks want to be paid for.

This business of lens size borders on ridiculous- the concept that a long lens or tripod automatically categorizes anyone as a "professional" is silly ! But somebody made up theses blanket rules and the security folks who enforce them are not usually aficionados of photography, photographic gear or who is or isn't a pro. If you don't have the paper work or a pass you are out! Check your camera t at the door.

Some othere places- tourist attractions, museums, and othere seemingly public places do place restriction on tripods and other gear. Some insist of fees and licenses- some are reasonable other are just cash grabs. It is what it is!

Oftentimes there are very legitimate reason for restrictions. If everyone was allowed to do whatever the wanted to do with their cameras there is the possibility that other spectators, patrons and audience members would be disturbed and distracted by the goings on. At certain events there are serious safety and insurance issues- motor sports, rodeos and situation where someone on or near the field, ring or arena can be struck by a ball, puck, other projectile or a flying athlete. Flash or or entering upon a field can endanger the photographer and/or an athlete. This can also distract the athletes and interfere with the game or match.

Cellphone cameras have nothing to do with the crux of the matter. The may be restricted too, at some events.

If you are an avid sports or entertainment photographer or aspire to become one- do the homework! Research the venue and the restriction long before you attend. Seek out passes, accreditation or permissions in writing! Don't just show up with a camer where they are gonna be totally restricted- it frustrating and disappointing and can even lead to legal problems.

Be courteous, act professional, ask nicely- you would be surprised how much cooperation you can get if you go through the right channels.

Just for the record- I an not talking out of my hat! I worked on a daily newspaper for a couple of years, did "stringer" work for several magazines including "RING" where I covered pro boxing. In my commercial work I do get to do lots of event coverage and I am dealing with the folks in charge all the time- sometimes that is a job in it itself- it's easier to take the pictures! Even in my High School days, I was on the Track Team and also shot their meets for the yearbook and had to obtain an A.A.U. pass to shoot my own team at Madison Square Garden back in 1958- you get used to it!

Good luck and don't be discouraged.
Theses is no battle! Without permission, accredit... (show quote)

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Jan 7, 2019 11:24:46   #
Silverman Loc: Michigan
 
That is discouging news indeed. I feel that is kind of discrimination on Photographer's.
Yes, they may inspect my Camera and Lens, if necessary, but not Ban DSLR Cameras.
What is next?

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Jan 7, 2019 11:35:22   #
gary m Loc: Cincinnati, ohio
 
You can expect that at any concert or sporting event you will not be able to bring in your DSLR camera unless you have photographer credentials.

I am going to let Canon know that this is not what their customer base wants or desires, it may effect DSLR lens and add on sales if this continues. I am not going to purchase a point and shoot camera given the investments that I have made in Canon DSLR lenses and camera bodies. Certainly mirrorless camera's will also not be allowed into the events as they are too "Professional".

Gary

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Jan 7, 2019 11:39:34   #
via the lens Loc: Northern California, near Yosemite NP
 
randomeyes wrote:
I doubt too many people are going to get very close(for a reasonable photo) to a bull Moose with a cel phone camera.


That made me laugh! I could picture it in my mind!

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Jan 7, 2019 11:45:27   #
clickety
 
larryepage wrote:
During the time I served as a docent at the mansion in our local arboretum, rules were changed to prohibit photographs inside the house. The reasoning behind the change was that professional photographers were disrupting tours (the only way to get in without paying an additional fee) to photograph clients. The blanket prohibition was thought to be the simplest way to restore order without making us as docents referee who was and who was not a professional photographer. There had been some very unpleasant confrontations between some of those folks and arboretum volunteers trying to maintain order.

So now, the only folks who take photos in the house are those with cell phones who blatantly defy the clearly posted rules. I had suggested that if photographs were no longer to be allowed that photos or booklets ought to be made available, even at a small cost, for those who wanted. I do not believe that was ever done (I'm not currently an active volunteer). Truth is, there is no financial incentive at all for preventing photography there. But a few bad actors ruined the experienced for all who wanted to take pictures of what is really a very interesting place.
During the time I served as a docent at the mansio... (show quote)


Seems easier to just insist on the fee. Everyone gets the opportunity and revenue gets a boost. ‘Officials’ always miss the obvious solutions.

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Jan 7, 2019 11:45:59   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
saxman71 wrote:
I did not read each and every response thoroughly, but did anyone mention the fact it might be annoying to other speculators to have a person with a camera and long lens sitting next to them for three hours firing off 10 frames a second every time there's some good action on the sporting field. A concert would even be worse. Frankly, I think cell phones should be banned too. But for obvious reasons that would not really be possible.


Cell phones ARE banned from many concerts, plays, and other performances. Thank goodness! There is nothing more ridiculous than to see a performer in front of 500 people with 300 cell phones held high. (Why the F--- are we there, anyway??? It's a PERFORMANCE, not a photo session.)

Most plays, music, and other performances use copyrighted material that is licensed under strict terms to the performers or company or school sponsoring the performance. Many professional sports organizations license their players' images, uniform logos, and limit recording or broadcasting rights to their games.

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Jan 7, 2019 11:47:18   #
hpucker99 Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
 
charles tabb wrote:
The Sony RX10 IV is NOT a "Interchangeble lens camera".


I take by Sony RX10 IV to Colorado Rockies and Avalanches games but worry everytime that someone will mistaken it for a camera with a changeable lens.

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Jan 7, 2019 11:54:19   #
scsdesphotography Loc: Southeastern Michigan
 
gary m wrote:
To All,

Thank you for your feedback on this topic. It looks like the amateur photographer has lost this battle to the professional photo journalist and business owners. The only choice I have is not to pay or attend any events that have camera or photography restrictions. No sporting events or concerts attendance are in my foreseeable future.

Thanks all for your input on this topic

Gary


Good news Gary. Move to Detroit, you can photograph the Tigers (and the visiting team) to your hearts content. No photography restrictions at CoAmerica park during baseball season.

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Jan 7, 2019 11:54:29   #
peterg Loc: Santa Rosa, CA
 
burkphoto wrote:
Cell phones ARE banned from many concerts, plays, and other performances. Thank goodness! There is nothing more ridiculous than to see a performer in front of 500 people with 300 cell phones held high. (Why the F--- are we there, anyway??? It's a PERFORMANCE, not a photo session.)

Most plays, music, and other performances use copyrighted material that is licensed under strict terms to the performers or company or school sponsoring the performance. Many professional sports organizations license their players' images, uniform logos, and limit recording or broadcasting rights to their games.
Cell phones ARE banned from many concerts, plays, ... (show quote)
Agree. Also, photography restrictions concerning cameras, tripods, selfie stickes, etc. are often made to handle the "lowest common denominator" of attendee (e.g. jerk). The most common words heard in the Sistine Chapel are "NO FLASH!!!

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