OK, another mirrorless and full frame question (Page 6): ...and another take is the "tool" angle. I've been a tool guy all my life in whatever aspect I can think of; I want as much...

chasgroh Loc: Buena Park, CA

Bill_de wrote:

Spending money is more fun when you don't have to ... (show quote)

...and another take is the "tool" angle. I've been a tool guy all my life in whatever aspect I can think of; I want as much freedom of movement as possible in any endeavor, be it cameras or saws or tubas. I may never max out *any* of my passions that depend on hardware, but I never want to blame the equipment for a failure that could be remedied by more dough. I want it to fall on me, the operator. So, because I'm not made of money, this is probably a lifelong project. But I do the absolute best I can at obtaining optimum tools for my activities; work or pleasure.

imagemeister Loc: mid east Florida

BDHender wrote:

And how do you know this? I have some pictures that disssgree.

Bryan

Because I have studied it and it is a fact of life. You may well have pictures that disagree ! - I did not say you would not - just that there IS a likelihood.....of poor machining and/or quality control - that you may or may not realize you are seeing in finished results.

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gwilliams6

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSd3fcTTzyo DPReview 2018 Product of the Year Awards

IDguy Loc: Idaho

pv3977 wrote:

At most Z6/Z7 can get 350 pix before the battery exhausted. That's under a controlled advertised condition. The D750 can get over 1000 pix per EN-EL15. On the average I'm taking well over 1000 pix per outing (HDR, high speed photo for bird in fly...)

Nonsense. That is a specification number only. Most users report 1200-1500 images per battery charge for Zs.

chasgroh Loc: Buena Park, CA

imagemeister wrote:

Because I have studied it and it is a fact of life. You may well have pictures that disagree ! - I did not say you would not - just that there IS a likelihood.....of poor machining and/or quality control - that you may or may not realize you are seeing in finished results.

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Respectfully...while there certainly is a chance of something getting through Nikon's QC, unless we are true machinists and know their system, we don't really know. I submit that camera manufacturers, in general, are pretty dang finicky 'bout such things. I worked in a plant manufacturing stuff for satellites and you wouldn't believe our QC, and we're not the Japanese culture-wise, either. Personally, I can only go on 13 years of Nikon equipment with never a problem with their manufacturing/machining (including the FTZ adapter)...of course anecdotal, but I'd wager many more on this board would bear that out...these guys work in ten thousandths of an inch, I *do* wonder what their tolerances are...

chasgroh Loc: Buena Park, CA

IDguy wrote:

Nonsense. That is a specification number only. Most users report 1200-1500 images per battery charge for Zs.

...I will personally attest to that...

pv3977 Loc: San Diego

BDHender wrote:

Actually that is not true. Again !

BDHender. You're correct that I misquoted.

The actual battery life (CIPA) for Z6 is only 310. And for D750 it's 1230.
So you have to carry 3 extra batteries plus one in the camera to be equivalent to D750. You should go and look it up before correcting me.

Bill_de Loc: US

pv3977 wrote:

BDHender. You're correct that I misquoted.

The actual battery life (CIPA) for Z6 is only 310. And for D750 it's 1230.
So you have to carry 3 extra batteries plus one in the camera to be equivalent to D750. You should go and look it up before correcting me.

The issue here is CIPA vs real world. I don't know for sure how CIPA does their testing. I have read that they test the camera under the worst possible conditions when it comes to power drain. It could be WiFi on, previewing every image, having the rear LCD turn on every time you take your eye from the viewfinder. Personally I do a little more chimping with a new camera until I get comfortable with it. I use the viewfinder for shooting and most information. I use buttons and dials, when possible, instead of the "I" button.

I haven't taken 1,000 pictures on one outing with the Z6, but at 700+ there was still 26% power left. I always start with a fully charged battery and carry one spare. So far I haven't needed the spare.

In short, CIPA does it their way (as they should) and the rest of the world takes pictures.

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Hip Coyote

I switched to the Oly OMD Em5mii system for the weight savings, etc. I like the mirrorless system but it does have its limits. The EVF has one advantage over DSLR....the ability to see the effect of camera settings as they are made. But, as Mr. Cranky-pants above noted, the EVF has a lag time which can sometimes be annoying. If weight is an issue ( hiking long distances or over altitude which I do) then the Oly 5Dmii is a great option with a few lightweight prime lenses.

Bill_de Loc: US

How does one see a split second lag in an EVF viewfinder? If I am looking through the viewfinder how would I know that what I am seeing is old news. When I point the Z6 from one subject to another the focus might not be as fast as I would like, but if I move from one flower to another I see what I am pointing the lens at.

What made me think of this was the TV tuner I have in my desktop. If I use it to watch live tv it is a couple of seconds behind. I only notice it if there is another TV on in the house. Just watching one gives me no reference point.

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Hip Coyote

Hey, Bill..you are right...I was imprecise. The lag time is for the camera to wake up from the evf being off...to being active. Once the evf is running I don’t have lag time. I’ve missed a few shots due to the lag time thing but I can kind of predict when I am going to shoot. So it works out.

Bill_de Loc: US

RWebb76 wrote:

Hey, Bill..you are right...I was imprecise. The lag time is for the camera to wake up from the evf being off...to being active. Once the evf is running I don’t have lag time. I’ve missed a few shots due to the lag time thing but I can kind of predict when I am going to shoot. So it works out.

That wake up time can be annoying. If looking through the viewfinder, and I guess the LCD is the same, my Z6 dims a few seconds before it shuts off as a warning. It's helpful when waiting for something to happen, like an animal turning it's head. But otherwise mine does fall asleep and takes a while to wake up ... just like me.

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imagemeister Loc: mid east Florida

chasgroh wrote:

Respectfully...while there certainly is a chance o... (show quote)

What we are looking at here is the machining tolerance of the lens, of the body, AND of the adapter - so 3 tolerances that can stack/add up to be quite a bit in the end !

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chasgroh Loc: Buena Park, CA

imagemeister wrote:

What we are looking at here is the machining tolerance of the lens, of the body, AND of the adapter - so 3 tolerances that can stack/add up to be quite a bit in the end !

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...well, sure. But *real* machinists like my brother sniff at such things. Flat is flat. Tolerance is tolerance. Measurements are measurements and calibration is lumped in there, too. MY tolerance as a cabinetmaker is to the 1/64th and that's come from years and years of doing it...I trust other tradesmen to do their gig. Yes, mistakes occur and sometimes get by QC...such is life in the big city.

Bill_de Loc: US

imagemeister wrote:

What we are looking at here is the machining tolerance of the lens, of the body, AND of the adapter - so 3 tolerances that can stack/add up to be quite a bit in the end !

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I would think about the same kind of fit they have needed with teleconverters and extension rings.

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