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The Mirrorless disruption
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Jan 5, 2019 07:20:21   #
Peterff Loc: O'er The Hills and Far Away, in Themyscira.
 
JD750 wrote:
Your points are all all well taken..... Mirrorless Interchangeable Lens Format is the next step in development (evolution). ...


OK, You’ve convinced me. I need to get myself a couple of new MILFs. The current ones have been a very worthwhile investment for the last twenty years or so. 😈

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Jan 6, 2019 00:11:12   #
JD750 Loc: SoCal
 
Peterff wrote:
OK, You’ve convinced me. I need to get myself a couple of new MILFs. The current ones have been a very worthwhile investment for the last twenty years or so. 😈


I think you are the only one who noticed that I used a different acronym.

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Jan 6, 2019 00:45:24   #
Wallen Loc: Middle Earth
 
JD750 wrote:
Well this is great! A civilized UHH conversation with point and counterpoint! Thank you for contributing to the thread and for making a positive contribution. Let's continue then shall we?

My counterpoint to the above:

1. Agree. Manufacturers will decide when to cease production of DSLRs based on profitability.

2. I still contend it is subjective. You know of the term "retina" display. It means the display pixel size is less than the resolving power of the human eye. We can't see the individual pixels. There are various parameters involved but modern EVFs are very close if not there. Time lag has been reduced to milliseconds on modern EVF. Mess up colors in low light? I disagree. Light color normally changes in low light. My EVF shows me the color I am going to get when I take the snap. 100% of the time. It has helped me realize I needed to change WB more than once. And I can see my EVF in bright light with all the camera info, and I can see my scene in dim light as well, even at night if I want, which is a boon to composition of night scenes. I think these things are advantages. Some prefer optical because it's more like seeing. But that is subjective.

3. Your point was that camera manufacturers have improved the live view. If you don't use live view for composition then you lose the WYSIWYG function which is one of the big advantages of EVF. (And if your camera's EVF does not have WYSIWYG then throw it away and buy a new one).

4. Agree.

5. Cell phone cameras are usually ignored but holding a big DSLR with a 300mm f4 lens attracts attention. I get more candid street photos with my M43 camera than when I am carrying my DSLR. But your point is well taken. Cultures and laws are different throughout the world and that does matter.
Well this is great! A civilized UHH conversation w... (show quote)


1. Agreed
2. Retina display is distance+pixel density. At the moment the pixel density is limited and when viewed as EVF it is magnified hence negative distance so it will still not provide all the details an OVF can give.
I wish i could fully agree with WYSIWYG regarding EVF since it is showing a movie on a monitor output and we have to take that with a grain of salt. Such display also eats a lot of energy and can drastically shorten the amount of images one can get per battery charge. You are correct it may show flaws before the image is taken but beyond a persons skill, the same can be said with live view or afterwards by chimping.
3. As i've said before, live view is just an option whereas the EVF-its contemporary is already the main tool. There are time it fits the job better and hence it will be used on those moments. This provide flexibility that MILC does not have.
4. Agreed
5. I still believe its subjective. Celphones attract attention, it is just usually ignored with a hint of annoyance. On the other hand, a long lens allows a person to take pictures without disturbing the subject. Hence my comment of "it is usually on the user" how he acts with his equipment that he gets positive or negative attention. Besides, the MILC with equivalent lens will not be much smaller compared to a D3300 or even to a D750 D-SLR.

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Jan 6, 2019 18:19:13   #
Bipod
 
anotherview wrote:
Tend to agree with your view here:

"Digital and Digital-SLRs (DSLR) technology were an improvement over film. The reason the (digital) technology dominated was it delivered high quality results much faster than film. Time is money for professionals and the 'instant gratification' aspect was a big seller to the public. Mirrorless Interchangeable Lens Format is the next step in development (evolution). It delivers high quality results faster than DSLR tech and the public will like that the image they see is the one they get."

The history of photography involves a steady advance of technology applied to this powerful medium of human expression.

I offer one caveat. The mirrorless SLR will take longer to replace the DSLR than it took for the DSLR to replace SLR film photography. But the progression from one advance to the next no doubt will succeed.
Tend to agree with your view here: br br "... (show quote)

Then I assume you drive a car with a Wankle rotary engine, not one of those old-fashioned
piston engines. Or maybe you've gone to a gas turbine?

The history of photography (or anything else, for that matter) is no one of continuous improvement with
everythinga always getting better. As in biological evolution, there are many "dead ends" and many
different niches. Butterflies and sharks have not evolved the same anatomical structures.

There is no question that digital is more convenient than film. But is convenience all that matters?
Would you pay more for a digital print than for a silver print?

Most important of all: professional photographer and fine art photographers play a tiny role in today's market.
More than 99% of the cameras sold by Sony, Canon, Nikon, etc. are sold to CONSUMERS.

Are you saying Joe Consumer is a infallible judge of camera gear, or of what's good for photography?
Are his needs the same as a fine art photographer's?

But I hear your message: the public is never wrong, the status quo is always right.

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Jan 6, 2019 18:37:17   #
tdekany Loc: Oregon
 
Bipod wrote:
There is no question that digital is more convenient than film. But is convenience all that matters?

Most important of all: professional photographer and fine art photographers play a tiny role in today's market.
More than 99% of the cameras sold by Sony, Canon, Nikon, etc. are sold to CONSUMERS..


Why do you put words in other people’s mouths? Anotherview clearly didn’t say anything like that. Do you really not know the advantages of digital besides convenience? And btw,,why do you use a digital camera, a computer,,telephone etc......?

Why not stick to your 8x10, write letters, use a horn?? Stop being a hypocrite.

Rigid thinking is a waste of time. Evidently not in your reality, but there is a a huge gray area between black and white.

Last time I looked, 99% of the products sold today are consumer driven. Welcome to reality.

AND WHERE ARE YOUR PHOTOGRAPHS?

Are you a troll/trouble maker or a photographer?

Which one are you?

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Jan 8, 2019 19:20:24   #
Bipod
 
tdekany wrote:
Why do you put words in other people’s mouths? Anotherview clearly didn’t say anything like that. Do you really not know the advantages of digital besides convenience? And btw,,why do you use a digital camera, a computer,,telephone etc......?

Why not stick to your 8x10, write letters, use a horn?? Stop being a hypocrite.

Rigid thinking is a waste of time. Evidently not in your reality, but there is a a huge gray area between black and white.

Last time I looked, 99% of the products sold today are consumer driven. Welcome to reality.

AND WHERE ARE YOUR PHOTOGRAPHS?

Are you a troll/trouble maker or a photographer?

Which one are you?
Why do you put words in other people’s mouths? Ano... (show quote)

Please stop the name calling, tdekany. It's not helping.

Your quote proves that I didn't put words in anyone's mouth.
I merely said digital photography is more convenient than film.
Do you disagree with that?

You are mistaken that 99% of all products being for the consumer.
If you had worked in industry, you would realize that there are
millions of industrial products that the consumer never sees.
You may not build roads, bridges, dams, tunnels, or skyscrapers--
but somebody does. You may not maintain heavy equipment,
power stations, aircraft, ships, submarines -- but somebody does.

How many parts and supplies go into building a digital camera?
How much specialized tools and machinery are used? Some builds
and sells every single one of those products.

Conumer demand is a large part of total demand, so it is very important
from a macroeconomic standpoint. But it by no means is the lion's
share of products and product categories. For example, Any large
electronics supplier has an enormous catalog of parts.

THe number of prescription drugs and medical devices is truly enormous,
not to mention all the supplies and equipment used by doctors,
dentists and in hospitals. All of it is made and sold by someone.

Limited experience is the root of much misunderstanding.

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