Perceived image sharpness in high pixel-count cameras.
Dec 23, 2018 09:05:54 #
PHRubin wrote:
I'm sure it depends on how you look at it. My computer can only display 1152 X 864, or about 1 MP, so on it I'll never even see the difference between my old 8 MP camera and my newer 24 MP camera UNTIL I blow a photo up for cropping.
I think if you take a high resolution image (say 20MP) and display it on your monitor it would look better than a 1MP image taken with the same camera/lens.
It comes down to sub-pixel performance and contrast. Can't remember all the details as I was working in the image processing field over 30 years ago!
Dec 23, 2018 09:08:19 #
Steve Perry wrote:
It's not a matter of sharpness as much as it is de... (show quote)
Great answer Steve. It is simple to understand and put in good context.
It is the resolution that is better in a sensor with more pixels.
But I wonder if there is a limit to the number of pixels that will continue to improve resolution?
Dec 23, 2018 09:16:39 #
"It’s night and day between my D70 and D810 haha and it should be. Merry Christmas"
Try a comparison between your D810 and the old D3 with 12 megapixels then get back to me.
Try a comparison between your D810 and the old D3 with 12 megapixels then get back to me.
Dec 23, 2018 09:38:03 #
In my mind (such as it is), the best facet of high megapixel cameras is the ability to severely crop pictures and still get a quality image. I shot some eagles catching fish at about 800 yards and with my 12 MP sensor got a very pixelized image when I cropped it down to the birds and fish. By contrast, I recently saw a similar situation taken with a D850 (47MP sensor) and the resulting cropped image was still sharp. Other than with severe cropping, I see little, if any, difference in sharpness or image quality between my 12 MP camera and those with much higher pixel counts.
Dec 23, 2018 09:42:31 #
Bazbo
Loc: Lisboa, Portugal
univac1103 wrote:
I don’t recall reading forum discussions about the... (show quote)
I think image sharpness has a lot more to do with the lens than the pixel count. I shoot cameras that clock in at 48, 36, 24 and whatever my iPhone is.
Dec 23, 2018 09:54:38 #
Steve Perry wrote:
It's not a matter of sharpness as much as it is de... (show quote)
Good explanation Steve. I have both 24megapixel A7III and 42 megapixel A7RIII. When I know I will need to enlarge a landscape or portrait or crop in tight on an image I will shoot with the 42 megapixel A7RIII for ultimate resolution. For most any other situations the 24 megapixel A7III will yield more than enough image quality and resolution. I am using the same excellent quality glass on both.
Dec 23, 2018 10:07:53 #
Soul Dr. wrote:
Great answer Steve. It is simple to understand and put in good context.
It is the resolution that is better in a sensor with more pixels.
But I wonder if there is a limit to the number of pixels that will continue to improve resolution?
It is the resolution that is better in a sensor with more pixels.
But I wonder if there is a limit to the number of pixels that will continue to improve resolution?
Thanks :)
Total resolution is a combination of more than just pixels - you have the entire optical system to consider. VERY generally speaking though, as we get higher and higher in MP we get into the territory of diminishing returns.
Also, as others have mentioned, it's not all about capturing every sliver of detail for every subject. I have a D850 that I use for wildlife, but I still find myself using the D5 even more. It's not capturing the same level of detail, but the overall ergonomics, speed, durability, ISO performance, buffer, frame rate, etc all conspire to make it my first choice. The camera just helps me get the shot like no other body can, and that's worth something as well.
Dec 23, 2018 10:13:14 #
olemikey
Loc: 6 mile creek, Spacecoast Florida
How and on what it is viewed and the sharpness of the viewers own eyesight/vision, and proper exposure and focus, coupled with the sensor capabilities and as Steve Perry stated the quality of the lens is very important. Recently, while messing around with the "Fine Tuning" function on one of my cameras I was enlightened by seeing the actual sharpness of each of my lenses, while viewing heavy crops done with various plus/normal/minus adjustments for each lens, and making sets of photos ("normal" size to heavy crops). I plan to do some more experimenting with the "fine tuning" feature to establish a set of "keeper" lenses, the rest may become shelf queens, trade-ins or Ebay fodder.
Dec 23, 2018 10:23:57 #
Peteso
Loc: Blacks Hills
High pixel counts allow heavy cropping and enough REMAINING pixels to produce a final sharp image. Perhaps more importantly, the emphasis on high pixel counts may often be the result of marketing hype; however, questions regarding sharpness should include a discussion of dynamic range and the quality of the glass, which are integral to sharpness and detail. I think these are the main technology considerations, but no discussion of sharpness would be complete without mentioning the importance of potential human error, including focus, exposure and processing. Hope this helps...
Dec 23, 2018 10:38:34 #
repleo wrote:
Here are some shots that I took re the question of... (show quote)
I don't think you were focused at the same place on photo #1 and #2 because although the text on the wine bottle is better resolved on #2, the crumbs on the countertop ar sharper in photo #1. There may be just a slight difference between the two cameras. Did you autofocus on the same point in both cases, or did you manually focus?
Dec 23, 2018 10:57:18 #
univac1103 wrote:
I don’t recall reading forum discussions about the... (show quote)
Sharpness is not quantitative - you can't measure sharpness. You can measure it's components - contrast and acuity. Many have tried to quantify sharpness - as a result you have MTF charts and Perceptual Megapixels. But there are so many variables that affect the perception of sharpness - including but not limited to - viewing distance, print size, eyesight, lighting conditions, subject matter, if viewing a print, the resolution,. contrast and brightness of the printer, if viewing on screen, the resolution, size, contrast and brightness, etc, etc, etc.
You are right to refer to sharpness as perceived, because it absolutely is.
Without a doubt, with a lens that has high contrast and acuity, you will see a difference as the mp count increases. On the other hand, if you have a mediocre lens, you won't see much of an improvement, and in some cases the image could be perceived to look better when shot with a low mp camera. In gneral terms, the higher the pixel count the "sharper" the lens needs to be in order to take full advantage of the higher sensor resolutions.
Dec 23, 2018 10:58:42 #
univac1103 wrote:
I don’t recall reading forum discussions about the... (show quote)
There is no such thing as a "non-processed" image from a digital camera. SOOC, which you refer to, simply means the camera is making the processing choices for you and each camera may do that a bit differently. As for an answer to your question, I don't think it's simply a matter of megapixels but also a matter of improved technology and sensors. My Nikon Z7 (45mp)creates extremely sharp images and, more importantly, I can hand-hold at lower shutter speeds and still get a sharp image. More pixels equates to being able to blow up an image to a larger size and still retain image clarity.
Dec 23, 2018 11:49:52 #
Dec 23, 2018 12:15:22 #
via the lens wrote:
There is no such thing as a "non-processed&qu... (show quote)
Though when you "blow an image up to a larger size" the viewing distances become correspondingly larger as the print gets bigger, and human vision becomes the limiting factor - It's the reason why a 4K theater screen, which has less than 9 mp, looks pretty good, and billboards can be made from cellphone images and they look amazing. High mp cameras do not really give you an advantage when you make really large prints - unless you have a bunch of photographer/pixel peeper types that whip out their 20X loupes to examine a 40x60 print up close. For normal people, all you really "need" for a 40x60 print is about 6 mp. I used to print all the time with my 6 mp D70S. The main advantage to high mp is croppability.
Dec 23, 2018 12:27:07 #
Thomas902 wrote:
Perceived sharpness is all about edge contrast... ... (show quote)
Soooo sad but so verrrrry true.
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