"Placing Shadows on Zone IV": Hey, we all learn something new once in a while, hopefully every single day. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlnt5yFArWo&list=PLB350661BF6555202...

Racmanaz Loc: Sunny Tucson!

Hey, we all learn something new once in a while, hopefully every single day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlnt5yFArWo&list=PLB350661BF6555202

Photobum Loc: Auburn, Washington

Good points for those who practice zone exposures or for those who wish to expand their knowledge of tonality. Thanks.

Dedo Loc: NY, Uruguay

Barnbaum does a great job explaining this subject.
Here is another way of looking at some of this great information which offers some
comparison of film to digital.
http://www.covingtoninnovations.com/dslr/curves.html

Photobum Loc: Auburn, Washington

Dedo wrote:

Barnbaum does a great job explaining this subject.
Here is another way of looking at some of this great information which offers some
comparison of film to digital.
http://www.covingtoninnovations.com/dslr/curves.html

Thanks! That's going to take some major concentration to wade thru.

rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona

Good find, Racmanaz. Something I've been doing for some time. My approach to digital is very similar, but 180 degrees different.
--Bob

Racmanaz wrote:

Hey, we all learn something new once in a while, hopefully every single day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlnt5yFArWo&list=PLB350661BF6555202

RRS Loc: Not sure

rmalarz wrote:

Good find, Racmanaz. Something I've been doing for some time. My approach to digital is very similar, but 180 degrees different.
--Bob

Thanks Bob, could you please go into more detail on your 180 degree approach. Ron

rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona

RRS, the 180 degree reference is that, through exposure, I place the highlights and then handle the shadows in processing as opposed to exposing for the shadows, placing the darker areas, and handling the highlights in processing. I hope that answers your request.
--Bob

RRS wrote:

Thanks Bob, could you please go into more detail on your 180 degree approach. Ron

Rich1939 Loc: Pike County Penna.

Hmm. If you place the shadows in zone 3 you are essentially giving the subject more exposure and your histogram will move to the right. AKA ETTR.???

rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona

Rich, I'm not sure to whom this post was addressed, but no, that's not correct. Moving the metered shadow area to Zone III would be pushing the histogram to the left.
--Bob

Rich1939 wrote:

Hmm. If you place the shadows in zone 3 you are essentially giving the subject more exposure and your histogram will move to the right. AKA ETTR.???

Rich1939 Loc: Pike County Penna.

rmalarz wrote:

Rich, I'm not sure to whom this post was addressed, but no, that's not correct. Moving the metered shadow area to Zone III would be pushing the histogram to the left.
--Bob

Bob, that was addressed to WIMC (to whom it may concern

)
By adding exposure to the shadows you will also add exposure to the entire image. For example if the shadow area concerns me and I want to open it up a zone every other part of the image will follow and if there are some very bright areas in the image I would be risking blowing them out. Unless of course I knew my camera's btr tolerance and kept that in mind as part of the exposure calculation. Isn't that in essence exposing to the right?

rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona

Rich, sort of. The idea of ETTR is to spot meter the bright(est) part of the scene. Then, knowing one's camera's limits, increase the exposure to place that part of the scene in the Zone one wishes to place it, within the camera's capabilities. This pushing the brightest part of the scene will drag the darker parts of the scene to the right, as well. Thus, in processing, those dark areas of the scene will need to be adjusted.

Some of the initial adjustment will be done in normalizing the histogram as the first part of processing the RAW image. After that initial adjustment, minor tweaks can be done to the shadow areas to adjust to one's personal interpretation of the scene.

Fears of blowing highlights can be assuaged by testing one's camera's limits and not going beyond those limits when adjusting exposure.
--Bob

Rich1939 wrote:

Bob, that was addressed to WIMC (to whom it may co... (show quote)

Rich1939 Loc: Pike County Penna.

rmalarz wrote:

Rich, sort of. The idea of ETTR is to spot meter t... (show quote)

exactly! For me ETTR is a tool to be used when needed. Here in the woods of PA blowing the highlights hasn't been a consideration for most of the past year but pulling up the shadows has helped at times. The resultant RAW files are very similar.
As an aside. Back in film days we had 3 controls, Exposure, Development, and the Darkroom. Today we are pretty much limited to just 2, Exposure and Post. In the past we could expose for the shadows and develop for the highlights. Today we need to find the best balance between the two based on how we want to interpret the scene. Knowing the limits of your camera and using it to incorporate those can help compensate to some degree for the loss of development controls. Alternately there is always hdr, not something I wish to use. Learning just how far we can push our cameras is a far better path to my way of thinking.

rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona

Rich, you're on the right path. I use always use ETTR. There is always some bright area I use for my exposure foundation. That's the first step. ACR is the second, or equivalent to developing. PS is the last step and I equate that with making the print.
--Bob

Rich1939 wrote:

exactly! For me ETTR is a tool to be used when ne... (show quote)

Rich1939 Loc: Pike County Penna.

rmalarz wrote:

Rich, you're on the right path. I use always use ETTR. There is always some bright area I use for my exposure foundation. That's the first step. ACR is the second, or equivalent to developing. PS is the last step and I equate that with making the print.
--Bob

"There is always some bright area I use for my exposure foundation."
The blessings of Arizona!!

Even in ACR we can't "develop for the highlights", if we haven't been on to our job when taking the picture they are gone.

rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona

Quote:

... if we haven't been on to our job when taking the picture they are gone.

The reason it's crucial to know the ETTR limits of the camera one is using.
--Bob

Rich1939 wrote:

"There is always some bright area I use for my exposure foundation."
The blessings of Arizona!!

Even in ACR we can't "develop for the highlights", if we haven't been on to our job when taking the picture they are gone.