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Mirror less lens mounts - Dawn of a new era for Nikon and photography ! ?
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Nov 19, 2018 12:32:34   #
dsmeltz Loc: Philadelphia
 
markjay wrote:
Nah,

Canon is kicking Nikons ass in the new mirrorless game.
Especially the lenses!


imagemeister wrote:
This may be a premature idea - especially regarding resolution......wait awhile and see how things shake out.


Actually you earlier alluded to a reason that markjay may be right. Canon's larger EF mount has allowed the design of adapters that provide performance improvements for EF lenses on the R mount. While Nikon does have an adapter, I have not heard praise heaped on adapted lens performance for the Z line. This puts Canon in a better long term position.

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Nov 19, 2018 12:49:51   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
imagemeister wrote:
I am all for non wiggling lens elements and sensors !



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Nov 19, 2018 12:53:47   #
dsmeltz Loc: Philadelphia
 
imagemeister wrote:
I am all for non wiggling lens elements and sensors !



I used to hate wiggling of any sort. Then I reached puberty.

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Nov 19, 2018 12:58:50   #
moonhawk Loc: Land of Enchantment
 
gwilliams6 wrote:
I am laughing at all you Sony bashers. That "small" E-mount has done extremely well for everything from APS-C, Full frame, AND Professional Cinema Camera Lenses for years,in the hands of filmmakers like Steven Spielberg, and James Cameron, no less. . Sony has no lack of sharp, fast and top image quality lenses for E-Mount. And in fact the E-Mount is the most widely shared lens mount in the world among third-party lens makers,including f 0.95 lenses, still and cine lenses. Folks please get your facts straight and actually know what you are talking about before making outlandish statements.

As Sony Execs. emphatically stated at the recent Photokina, having a larger lens mount is NOT necessary for top quality, fast lenses.
https://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sony-answers-nikon-and-says-larger-aperture-lens-does-not-require-a-larger-mount-diameter/

One recent example, Sony's new E-mount 24mm f1.4 G-Master lens with XA lens elements tests sharper at f1.4 from corner to corner than previous 24mm f1.4 lenses on the market. Debunking the other myth that a larger lens mount is needed for better corner to corner sharpness. Cheers
I am laughing at all you Sony bashers. That "... (show quote)


Butthurt, much?

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Nov 19, 2018 13:08:18   #
imagemeister Loc: mid east Florida
 
burkphoto wrote:
SLR mirrors do add some vibration during exposure. That's why there is a mirror lock-up switch on better SLRs and some dSLRs, and why "Live View" mode is handy. Mirror shake is most likely to be noticeable at speeds between the full-open curtain speed (varies with shutter design; usually between 1/60 and 1/250) and around 1 second. It's less noticeable at longer and shorter exposures. It's worst (in my experience) from about 1/2 to 1/60 second. When I used a Nikon F3 on a copy stand, my typical exposure was 1/8 at f/6.3 at ISO 64. So I locked up the mirror. Now, when I use my Lumix, I use electronic shutter mode, silent mode, and trip the camera from my iPhone. That eliminates mirror shock (no mirror) and shutter shock (no mechanical shutter), leaving only the swish of the diaphragm blades if I pre-focus manually. Then the problem becomes vibration of the table due to passing cars, etc.

One of the reasons LIFE switched to Nikon was cost. The Japanese bodies and lenses were significantly less costly than their German counterparts. Since the performance was virtually indistinguishable in the magazine, the switch was an easy decision. It pleased the bean counters! That choice by LIFE led to a choice of Nikon by the US military (along Beseler Topcon, for some arcane reason). It also cemented the Nikon brand into the minds of many youth, eventually clinched by the song, Kodachrome, by Paul Simon.

Despite the fact that I started with a Canon FX in 1968, I bought a Nikkormat FTn in 1969, mostly due to the reputation Nikon had among the press. Our high school contract yearbook candid photographer had six Nikon F bodies. So I went that direction, eventually picking up a Nikon FTn. Funny... I had tested Nikkormat FTn, Canon FT QL, Pentax Spotmatic F, and Minolta SRT-101. The Spotmatic felt best in my hands, and their lenses were the easiest to focus. But all because Time-Life and the local press used Nikon, that's the way I went.

The more I used the FTn, the more I appreciated its performance and rugged reliability, but the less I liked its ergonomics. the shutter button strained my index finger. Changing film was a pain... What do you do with the back while it's off? I had to wear shirts with clean pockets. They fixed all that stuff with the F3. It's a classic. It reminded me of the Pentax Spotmatic from the late 1960s. I wore one out!

I never have liked the reflex mirror and pentaprism/pentamirror designs, though. Finder blackout is what kept some old-timer photojournalists using rangefinder cameras until they died. At least you could see the moment of exposure and know you got the expression you wanted from a person. That's one of the reasons I got interested in mirrorless cameras. They're still evolving, but by 2014, they were good enough to use for all but sports and wildlife work. The Sony A9 appears to have broken that barrier. Its existence is why so many reviewers didn't like the Canon and Nikon full frame announcements. I suspect Canon and Nikon are already working on their "A9 killers" along with Panasonic.

Welcome back, friends, to the show that never ends...

Remember, if your old cameras still work, you can still use them. Or someone else can. When a G.A.S. attack occurs, remember that your knowledge, experience, training, passion, mental vision, purpose, and curiosity USUALLY are more important than your gear. Have a good reason to upgrade or switch!
SLR mirrors do add some vibration during exposure.... (show quote)


Well presented historical perspective !

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Nov 19, 2018 13:18:44   #
gwilliams6
 
imagemeister wrote:
I have been waiting for the Sony fanboys ! .....

"As Sony Execs. emphatically stated at the recent Photokina, having a larger lens mount is NOT necessary for top quality, fast lenses.
https://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sony-answers-nikon-and-says-larger-aperture-lens-does-not-require-a-larger-mount-diameter/ "

Of course they are going to tell you that ! Duh.... but we are talking optical physics here. Of course it is not impossible to design a really good lens on the e-mount - just easier and cheaper with a bigger mount !.....

Properly designed, the ULTIMATE quality large aperture lens will come from a very adequate sized lens mount - and at a price most can afford.

We will have to see how "well" the e-mount does against what Nikon and Canon will be coming up with for their mirrorless.....

..
I have been waiting for the Sony fanboys ! ..... ... (show quote)


Sony has some inexpensive E-Mount lenses that have excellent image quality, as well as more expensive G-master E-Mount lenses with extra features. Look it up, not fake news. Those fast larger mount Canon EOS R and Nikon Z-camera lenses are more expensive than the competitors. Lets see how many folks willingly fork out up to $3000 for some of those. So far NOT easier and cheaper to do that with a big mount, is it.

No need to see how well those E-mount lenses do against Canon and Nikon. Compare tests from DXO and others now and post them now and in the future to back up any of your claims. And remember E-mount is still the most widely manufactured and shared lens mount in the world, so don't leave out Sigma, Tamron, Laowa, Samyang/Rokinon, Meike, Minotika, Zeiss, Tokina, Voightlander,Digital King, HandeVision, Photex,Yasuhara, Arax,Meyer-Optik-Gorlitz, and more in your comparisons. Bragging rights and hype aren't the same as reality. And Sony alone has announced another 15 E-mount lenses due in the next two years . Add that to all the new E-mount lenses announced and coming from that long list of lens makers and you will see E-mount is here to stay and ready and most able to take on anything from Canon and Nikon mirrorless lenses. Cheers

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Nov 19, 2018 13:24:09   #
moonhawk Loc: Land of Enchantment
 
I changed from a long line of Nikons--starting with an F3 HP, and ending with D810/D500, to Oly mirrorless m4/3 about three years ago. Sold all of my Nikon bodies and zooms, kept a few good primes and specialty lenses. But I did have some misgivings when the D850 came out, it just seemed like such a great camera. So, when the Z7 was announced with basically the same sensor, I pre-ordered it. Also the adaptor, 24-70, and 35 mm 1.8.

Comparing it to my em1.2 is almost apples to oranges, but the winner is..... mirrorless! Love the Z7 for wide angle landscapes, and will maybe check out the longer lenses. I still have the 300 mm PF lens and 1.4X, and they seem to work seamlessly. But on a recent trip to Italy, I took the OLY and the 12-100 4. Nikon just doesn't have an equivalent yet, and if they did it would be enormous. The smaller form factor of M4/3 was invaluable, and the versatility of that lens unsurpassed.

The bottom line, however, is that from now on, my choice will always be mirrorless.

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Nov 19, 2018 13:27:16   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
imagemeister wrote:
I have been waiting for the Sony fanboys ! .....

"As Sony Execs. emphatically stated at the recent Photokina, having a larger lens mount is NOT necessary for top quality, fast lenses.
https://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sony-answers-nikon-and-says-larger-aperture-lens-does-not-require-a-larger-mount-diameter/ "

Of course they are going to tell you that ! Duh.... but we are talking optical physics here. Of course it is not impossible to design a really good lens on the e-mount - just easier and cheaper with a bigger mount !.....

Properly designed, the ULTIMATE quality large aperture lens will come from a very adequate sized lens mount - and at a price most can afford.

We will have to see how "well" the e-mount does against what Nikon and Canon will be coming up with for their mirrorless.....

..
I have been waiting for the Sony fanboys ! ..... ... (show quote)



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Nov 19, 2018 13:46:39   #
imagemeister Loc: mid east Florida
 
gwilliams6 wrote:
Sony has some inexpensive E-Mount lenses that have excellent image quality, as well as more expensive G-master E-Mount lenses with extra features. Look it up, not fake news. Those fast larger mount Canon EOS R and Nikon Z-camera lenses are more expensive than the competitors. Lets see how many folks willingly fork out up to $3000 for some of those. So far NOT easier and cheaper to do that with a big mount, is it.

No need to see how well those E-mount lenses do against Canon and Nikon. Compare tests from DXO and others now and post them now and in the future to back up any of your claims. And remember E-mount is still the most widely manufactured and shared lens mount in the world, so don't leave out Sigma, Tamron, Laowa, Samyang/Rokinon, Meike, Minotika, Zeiss, Tokina, Voightlander,Digital King, HandeVision, Photex,Yasuhara, Arax,Meyer-Optik-Gorlitz, and more in your comparisons. Bragging rights and hype aren't the same as reality. And Sony alone has announced another 15 E-mount lenses due in the next two years . Add that to all the new E-mount lenses announced and coming from that long list of lens makers and you will see E-mount is here to stay and ready and most able to take on anything from Canon and Nikon mirrorless lenses. Cheers
Sony has some inexpensive E-Mount lenses that have... (show quote)


Cheers ! .....as for me, I am waiting for the future.

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Nov 19, 2018 13:55:22   #
Blenheim Orange Loc: Michigan
 
Bill_de wrote:
You seem to have no interest in buying anything or even educating yourself about what is available...


That supports the positioning you are arguing against.

Mike

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Nov 19, 2018 14:10:44   #
joer Loc: Colorado/Illinois
 
imagemeister wrote:
First, a disclaimer........I am not a current or even past Nikon user !

I was in Barnes a Noble Sat. - one of the british photo mags had tested the Z7 with the new 24-70 and 35mm S lenses. The Imatest numbers were the highest I have seen ! - verifying that the new larger lens mount and shorter back focus has liberated Nikon lens designers - as I predicted it would - and resulting in full frame resolution performance for lenses 50mm and shorter that we have never seen before ! The down side to this is the vignetting will increase due to physics of the lens being closer to the sensor - but this is correctable in software.

I am sure a similar advantage - at least the shorter back focus part - will also benefit the new Canon mirrorless lenses. Canon had enlarged their DSLR lens mount long ago and their mirrorless mount is basicly the same size now ......and poor Sony missed the boat long ago with their small e-mount !

..
First, a disclaimer........I am not a current or e... (show quote)


How do you explain the Otis and Art equivalents on the tiny little Nikon F mount. If size mattered crop lenses would be great on FF cameras...or are they?

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Nov 19, 2018 14:16:42   #
gwilliams6
 
Architect1776 wrote:


You Nikon and Canon fanboys didn't think that UHH was just for you folks only, did you? You all forget I was a Nikon and Canon pro user and fanboy for 40 years, yes 40. But i switched to Sony for better performing gear. So I am in this for the long haul and going nowhere. Just get used to me and other Sony, Fuji, Panasonic, Olympus,Pentax, Leica, Hassleblad etc. shooters, or ignore anyone who doesn't use Nikon or Canon. We won't be silent when you post myths, and false and misleading info. No fake news allowed. LOL Cheers

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Nov 19, 2018 14:21:31   #
imagemeister Loc: mid east Florida
 
gwilliams6 wrote:
You Nikon and Canon fanboys didn't think that UHH was just for you folks only, did you? You all forget I was a Nikon and Canon pro user and fanboy for 40 years, yes 40. But i switched to Sony for better performing gear. So I am in this for the long haul and going nowhere. Just get used to me and other Sony, Fuji, Panasonic, Olympus,Pentax, Leica, Hassleblad etc. shooters, or ignore anyone who doesn't use Nikon or Canon. LOL Cheers


For the record, I AM a Sony and Canon user ....

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Nov 19, 2018 14:24:30   #
gwilliams6
 
imagemeister wrote:
For the record, I AM a Sony and Canon user ....


Good for you. I will still respond when you make misinformed posts IMHO . You have the right to do likewise if you think I have done so. BTW I kept one Canon lens, the 17mm f4 Tilt-shift lens, which I use on my Sonys with the Sigma MC-11 adapter. Cheers

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Nov 19, 2018 16:19:33   #
pego101
 
Mirror Less Lens Mounts?
Isn't it a Mirror Less Camera?
What does the mount have to do with it?
Anyway I saw and read the articles in N-Photo November 2018 issue.
Unimpressed with the cursory article.
I am waiting to see how the Z6 compares to the D750 as there may never be a D760.
And also when Lightroom will read the Z6 NEF files.

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