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Oct 20, 2018 11:30:22   #
SharpShooter Loc: NorCal
 
Photopro wrote:
Thank you all for your views but there is one factor that everyone has overlooked and that kid that we are all children of God and as such there. Is. No thing as failure . If you truly believe your heavenly father opens doors that we can't do alone and he occasionally has to close some doors because he has a plan for our lives and the closed doors mean that he has something better and on a much grander scale than we can ever imagine. As for the term photopro it has been my th handle for a good many years so I don't feel any fear for my.future because God has a plan. Not only my life but all of us and he will bring it to pass and not a second latee.
Thank you all for your views but there is one fact... (show quote)


Pro, welcome to the Hog.
I see your plan is all laid out and as long as God delivers you'll be sitting fat!
I shoot several genres professionally including some sports. Here's what I did and suggest you do also. I'm sure you'll be provided for.
I shoot with a Canon 1Dx, not the mkll but the first generation. I bought it about a year ago for $1700. It took me about a year of looking to come uo with a good camera at such a good price. Football has a large field so you'll probably need a 400mm lens and for low light games it will need to be a 2.8. Look for a very old one that's 10 or 15 years old. Maybe in the $2000 range. you probably already have the 70-200 2.8 since everybody that shoots even little league has one of those. If you shoot only day games you can get away with slower glass but you'll start to lose the isolating DoF that pros prefer.
I hear the mirrorless cameras are better and cost next to nothing, might look at those too!!!
Maybe show us some of your current sports shots so we can oooh and aaah at them!!
Me....., I'm gonna buy a couple of the Super Mega Millions Lotto tickets, If I win even a small piece of it I'm buying a NEW camera and it won't be ML. LoL
Good luck with your new endeavor...., I'll pray for you!!!
SS

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Oct 20, 2018 11:32:37   #
Guyserman Loc: Benton, AR
 
Photopro wrote:
Thank you all for your views but there is one factor that everyone has overlooked and that kid that we are all children of God and as such there. Is. No thing as failure . If you truly believe your heavenly father opens doors that we can't do alone and he occasionally has to close some doors because he has a plan for our lives and the closed doors mean that he has something better and on a much grander scale than we can ever imagine. As for the term photopro it has been my th handle for a good many years so I don't feel any fear for my.future because God has a plan. Not only my life but all of us and he will bring it to pass and not a second latee.
Thank you all for your views but there is one fact... (show quote)

I like your attitude. Whether or not you become an accomplished sports photographer, you will be successful.
Have you ever seen so many people wrankled over the choice of a handle?

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Oct 20, 2018 12:15:06   #
Notorious T.O.D. Loc: Harrisburg, North Carolina
 
The other point I sort of slipped by is the technology is widely available but what is the differentiator is what you can do with the technology. I could shoot a Canon 1Dx MkII in P mode and get some nice photos but I would not be making the most of its technology.

Notorious T.O.D. wrote:
Having lived in the technology and high tech world for nearly 40 years I will tell you that the technology is available to anyone with the money...with some extreme exceptions perhaps. So if you have the money to buy great photography equipment that is great. That only makes you an owner of the current technology which of course is also a moving target in some ways. It doesn’t make you a good, great or pro photographer. I have also seen photographers with less than the best gear shoot great stuff that people love. They have an eye for it and that certainly helps, but it can be developed too. Some just have natural gifts for things. My son is that way with driving machines and racing. It is a gift.
Having lived in the technology and high tech world... (show quote)

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Oct 20, 2018 12:26:56   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
E.L.. Shapiro wrote:
Let's be positive. If you are going to embark on a career in ANY field the first thing to do is assess your talents and knowledge and APTITUDE for the job. The next step is to pursue the education, self teaching, formal training, apprenticeship, study and practice etc- whatever ways and means are at your disposal. The education is required to apprise you of the aspects of the job that you are not fully conversant with.

If you have knowledge of the SPORT that you intend photographing- that's a plus in your favor. Sports photographers need to be able to anticipate the action and shoot at the peak of that action. Then there are the physical attributes that are required. You need to have good reflexes and move quickly and easily, oftentimes with fairly bukey equipment. Expert camera handling is mandatory, there is no time to fumble with equipment- you have to be in full command of all your gear.

The there is the technical savvy- are you familiar with all the camera operations as to control of exposure, depth of field, operating with long (telephoto and zoom ) lenses, and the shutter speed needed to freeze action according to your camera position in relation to the trajectory of that action? You have to understand lighting. You need to contend with many out-of-doors and fluctuating weather and lighting condition and contrasts- or lack thereof. Some indoor venues are lighted for TV- that's easy but some are not. You have to adjust for white balance, sometimes with really wacky mixed light. How's your editing skills? Some sports assignments require are editing on site and are transmitted to the publication.

Artistic ability? Sports photojournalism is a highly competitive field. Many publications no longer maintain staff photographers and are outsourcing assignments to the best shooters. Nowadays, what with digital photography and many automated camera features, anyone with a bit of technical savvy can get "pictures". The ones that have the most impact and sailability also show good composition, and other aesthetics that give them the "edge".

Marketing and business abilities? Unless you are employed by a league, team or publication, you are in business for yourself. You need to be able to network, know the market, seek out assignments and manage your expenses and business dealings.

Equipment- You don't need the ultimate- crazy expensive top-of-the line everything but you do need good. durable, reliable gear. You will need a least 2 camera bodies- for fast shooting withou having to change lenses and the second body is also your spare in case of malfunction. A selection of lenses, perhaps zooms of overlapping focal lengths: Obviously, you can walk out on the field during play, so telephoto focal lengths are a basic requirement but you will also need some norma and wide angle lenses for PR shots, award presentations, all over view of the field and the crowds and team groups. You will need some relatively fast lenses for low light situations.You may need some electronic flash gear for indoor work when flash is permitted. You will need some support gear a solid tripod, a monopod, and a sturdy camera bag to protect and transport you gear.

So..this is not written to discourage you- it's just a realistic view of the job. I am a commercial photographer by profession but at one time I shot news for a major city daily newspaper. I had experience with many aspects of the job- political stuff, fires, accidents,riots, social page stuff etc. but not ALL the various sports that were ongoing in the city. I had shot baseball, basketball and boxing but never even attended a hockey game. There is was in Montreal, the NHL capital of the world at the time and I did not know a puc from a bagel. Fortunately, I had the opportunity to shadow the guys on the staff that were well immersed in the sport and they taught me the ropes- I also had to study the game, the rules, the plays, the player and their numbers etc. So...if you coud network with an experienced pro and have an opportunity to observe and do some basic shooting- that would be awesome.

As I alluded to- professional photography is a BUSINESS so a significant investment is needed to get started.
Let's be positive. If you are going to embark on ... (show quote)


EL is correct. Of all the fields of photography you could choose, this is one of those that REQUIRES relatively expensive equipment to succeed. I’m all for prayers and Devine intervention, but you’ll also need that 300-400mm f2.8 (or longer). A quick look at the Canon, Nikon or Sony websites and pricing will help you reconcile your expectations with reality. If you need convincing, go shoot some with what you already have - both during the day and night, and all will become clear.

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Oct 20, 2018 12:29:56   #
rmorrison1116 Loc: Near Valley Forge, Pennsylvania
 
Photopro wrote:
Thank you all for your views but there is one factor that everyone has overlooked and that kid that we are all children of God and as such there. Is. No thing as failure . If you truly believe your heavenly father opens doors that we can't do alone and he occasionally has to close some doors because he has a plan for our lives and the closed doors mean that he has something better and on a much grander scale than we can ever imagine. As for the term photopro it has been my th handle for a good many years so I don't feel any fear for my.future because God has a plan. Not only my life but all of us and he will bring it to pass and not a second latee.
Thank you all for your views but there is one fact... (show quote)


Oh my poor confused internet social media website friend. If you truly believe that God will make it happen for you then why bother asking we lowly mortals any questions at all?! Don't get me wrong, I am a good Christian and I believe in the power of prayer, but there's a fine line between believing and wishful thinking. In my youth I attended Catholic schools for 12 years. I am now a member of a ELCA Lutheran Church. I call it, Catholic light. I was a member of an Episcopal Church for a while but, we moved and the Episcopalians kneel way too much and I've got a bad knee.
Anyway, God granted his children free will and the ability to do things for themselves. It's not ask and you shall receive, it's more like ask and you will be pointed in the right direction, but you have to work for it. There are no free lunches.
If you have the skills and the gear to be a professional photographer then get out there and apply yourself and get the experience you need. Remember, God helps those who help themselves. Good luck...

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Oct 20, 2018 12:42:45   #
hj Loc: Florida
 
WOW, I'm agreeing with morrison1116 twice in one day!

rmorrison1116 wrote:
Oh my poor confused internet social media website friend. If you truly believe that God will make it happen for you then why bother asking we lowly mortals any questions at all?! Don't get me wrong, I am a good Christian and I believe in the power of prayer, but there's a fine line between believing and wishful thinking. In my youth I attended Catholic schools for 12 years. I am now a member of a ELCA Lutheran Church. I call it, Catholic light. I was a member of an Episcopal Church for a while but, we moved and the Episcopalians kneel way too much and I've got a bad knee.
Anyway, God granted his children free will and the ability to do things for themselves. It's not ask and you shall receive, it's more like ask and you will be pointed in the right direction, but you have to work for it. There are no free lunches.
If you have the skills and the gear to be a professional photographer then get out there and apply yourself and get the experience you need. Remember, God helps those who help themselves. Good luck...
Oh my poor confused internet social media website ... (show quote)

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Oct 20, 2018 13:00:09   #
jak86094
 
There are many great points in the prior comments regarding the skills and difficulties in becoming a professional in any field and especially in photography. While there are some discouraging barriers and pitfalls to your goals, there are also ways you can start working toward your dream. As for equipment, you will need speed and reach (fast, long lenses and good quality bodies). Better cameras will allow you to work at higher shutter speeds with less noise, etc. Some of this equipment can be purchased used. A number of professional photographers I have heard speak use mostly repurchased equipment, so that can help reduce the cost. Next is getting experience. Start with peewee and high school games. Graduate to community college and lower division college games where access and cost of admittance are minimal. Experiment so you learn where to get good shots, how to deal with lighting in the daytime and at night, etc. Create a portfolio that shows that you understand the game and can capture compelling images of significant action. If you can do that, you're on your way and meanwhile can be on the lookout for connections to news agencies, sports magazines, etc. I don't know the details for advancing to the next level...can you make a living as an independent sports photographer? But at least you'll have a portfolio and will have developed the necessary skills. Good luck. jak

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Oct 20, 2018 13:30:31   #
Notorious T.O.D. Loc: Harrisburg, North Carolina
 
I have heard of people shooting high school athletes and teams for MaxPreps and for those trying to get recruited. Video may be more popular for some of that though too.

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Oct 20, 2018 13:31:16   #
BigGWells Loc: Olympia, WA
 
Not saying it can't be done, but you have one huge row to hoe. In today's digital world, becoming a pro is harder than it used to be. I started shooting drag racing in 2015. I had been around drag racing since 1966, knew a lot of people, but apparently not the right people. I shot for two years before I was able to worm my way in to be able to shoot a National Event. With digital, there are so many shooters, who are more than happy to give their work away, just to be able to shoot a race. This being so, online drag racing sites are more than happy to take your free stuff, so as not to have to pay a PRO. Now for the equipment, it seems in today's world, quality is the last thing many are worried about. Online magazine will accept just about anything that resembles a shot. Cell phones are reeking havoc on the entire photography world, the world of instant gratification. Back in the day of film, you had to wait a couple of weeks to see photos from a National Event, now before that last run in Funny Car was over, it is all over social media. Do you need a high end full frame camera, some high dollar lens? As the saying goes, its not the camera, but the person pushing the shutter button.

If you intend on calling yourself a PRO, then plane on spending like a PRO.

For you to get credentials to shoot a PRO Football event now, I think you might have a better chance of winning the lotto. Now if you know someone, way deep inside, that has super connections, ummm, maybe. But I can tell you this, the NFL, MLB and such are tighter that a frogs butt to water.

Good luck in your endevor, I will be watching for you on the sidelines of an NFL game, in 10 years.

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Oct 20, 2018 14:10:08   #
PHRubin Loc: Nashville TN USA
 
Most replies are discouraging. Let me point out some simple things to consider.

1) Reach! You need a pretty long lens
2) This means you need to stabilize your camera, a tripod or monopod
3) Light! Long lenses tend to be of lower wide open aperture so compromise is in order to save $. The fastest lenses and most sensitive bodies cost.
4) Weather! To be a reliable pro you need to be there in all weather. A weatherproofed/ruggedized camera is a boon

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Oct 20, 2018 14:13:24   #
amfoto1 Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA
 
Photopro wrote:
Cb handle photopro and I'm working toward becoming a pro shooting pro football.I have one problem the equipment to catch the action is expensive and I don't have thatl kind of money.I would like to hear of alternative ways of catching the action without sacrificing.quality. Any advice would be appreciated

Don't "cheap out" on equipment. If you truly want to break into pro football photography, you will need the right gear to do it.

You haven't told us what, if any, gear you have already... so it's hard to recommend. But I'll give an example, simply based upon the gear I use and am most familiar with....

You need two DSLRs. The reason you need two is in order to have different lenses ready and set up for immediate use, as well as backup in case anything fails. Do not buy a mirrorless camera (yet). You need the optical viewfinder and lens selection of a DSLR to shoot sports. Most mirrorless cameras use an electronic viewfinder (if they have a viewfinder at all) and those consume a lot of power, reducing the number of shots per charge. A DSLR with a battery grip (either accessory or built in) can get 2500 or 3000 or more shots per charge. Most mirrorless only get 400 to 600 on a single battery and the few that can be fitted with a battery grip might double that. Shooting a football game at pro level you will probably take between 3000 and 5000 images. With a DSLR, that means carrying one extra set of batteries and making one battery change during the game. With mirrorless you will need to carry 2 or 3 extra sets of batteries and swap them out several times during the game. You'll miss shots while changing batteries, too. Not to mention, high performance (sports level) mirrorless are more expensive than DSLRs (due to current popularity). They also have only been around in large numbers for a few years, so I don't know that they've proven their durability with hard use. There's no shutter mechanism to fail in mirrorless, like there is in DSLRs.... but mirrorless put a great deal more time on their sensors because they use them to create the image seen in the viewfinder, as well make the images. Eventually you might end up "graduating" to mirrorless, once they've matured, become more efficient and proven their dependability. But I do not think I'd use one for serious sports photography yet.... maybe in 5 or 6 years when you find yourself upgrading.

I use Canon gear and can recommend their 7D Mark II DSLRs as a more affordable sports camera... 20MP is more than enough resolution for most sport photography purposes, 10 frames per second shooting rate is plenty and its APS-C format allows you to use smaller, lighter and considerably less expensive lenses. The 7DII also has very high performance autofocus, which is important with moving subjects. It's 65 AF array uses an arrangement similar to Canon's more premium (and a lot more expensive and full frame) 1D-series cameras. It has a discrete chip running the AF system, separate from the dual processors handling images at up to 10 frames per second (most other DSLRs and mirrorless use a single processor for everything). The 7DII is also rated for 200,000 "clicks" or shutter actuations. That's sort of like the "mileage" Canon says you can expect from it. This is double what many other DSLRs expect... which can be handy if you're shooting 3000 to 5000 images per game! (FYI: nearly 4X more expensive Canon 1DX-series are rated for upwards of 400,000 clicks.)

7DII are currently on sale for $1400 (body w/W-E1 wifi adapter, which you may or may not need or use). BG-E16 battery grip for 7DII costs $210 and OEM batteries are $64 apiece (you'll need 3 per camera & grip, in addition to the one that comes with the camera). So you're looking at about $3600 for 2 cameras, 2 battery grips and 6 extra batteries. You'll get two chargers with the cameras, might want an additional pair of them to be able to charge four batteries at a time... figure another $110 for a couple LC-E6 chargers.

Lenses are the next major consideration. Day games aren't as demanding of lenses as night games. At night, pro arenas are usually better lit than college and high school arenas.

Sports pros using full frame DSLRs (like Canon 1DX Mark II... 20MP, 12 frames per sec, $5500 apiece) use hefty, expensive lenses with high performance autofocus. Some common ones:
- Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM II... $1700
- Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM III... 3.25 lb., $2100.
- Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS USM II... 6 lb., $6100.
- Canon EF 400mm f/2.8L IS USM III... new model, coming soon, 6.25 lb., $12000.
- Canon EF 400mm f/2.8L IS USM II... 8.5 lb., $10000 (current model, heavier but excellent)
- Canon EF 200-400mm f/4L IS USM Extender... 8 lb., $11000 (built-in, matched 1.4X teleconverter)
With many of the above, you'll want a monopod to help support the lens for several hours of shooting (tripods may not be permitted on sidelines).

By using an APS-C camera like 7DII, you can reduce the size, weight and cost of your lens kit considerably. Where you needed a 300mm f/2.8 with full frame, on APS-C you can instead use a 70-200mm f/2.8 that costs $4000 less and weighs almost half as much. Or, instead of a $10000 to $12000 400mm f/2.8 on FF, on APS-C you can use a 300mm f/2.8 that costs half as much. "Crop only" lenses cannot be used on full frame, but offer add'l opportunities with APS-C cameras. In other words... APS-C cameras can use both crop only and full frame lenses.... while full frame cameras need full frame-capable lenses. Some possibilities for use on APS-C (many of which can be used on FF, too):
- Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM... $880 + $50 lens hood, 1.5 lb. (27-90mm full frame equiv.)
- Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM III... $2100, 3.25 lb. (112-320mm full frame equiv.)
- Sigma 120-300mm f/2.8 OS HSM... $3400, 7.5 lb. (192-480mm full frame equiv.)

In better lighting conditions (day games and well lit arenas) some other high performance f/4 or even f/5.6 lenses can work well, while reducing weight and cost:
- Canon EF 70-200mm f/4L IS USM II... $1300, 2 lb. (tripod ring separate: $165)
- Canon EF 70-300mm f/4-5.6L IS USM... $1350, 2.75 lb. (tripod ring separate: $165)
- Canon EF 70-300mm f/4-5.6 IS USM II... $500, 1.5 lb. (no tripod ring poss.)
- Canon EF 300mm f/4L IS USM... $1350, 2.75 lb.
- Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS USM II... $2000, 3.5 lb.
- Tamron SP 100-400mm f/5-6.3 VC HSM... $800, 3 lb. (tripod ring separate: $129)
- Sigma 100-400mm f/5-6.3 OS HSM... $700, 2.75 lb. (no tripod ring avail.)

Note: All the above lenses use an ultrasonic form of autofocus, which is very fast in most cases and needed both to acquire focus quickly and to be able to follow moving subjects. Look for similar in any system you consider.

You'll find similar choices in other systems. The Canon 100-400, 70-200mm 300/2.8, 400/2.8 and 200-400 Extender lenses mentioned all use fluorite for exceptional image quality. Few other manufacturers use fluorite, due to the cost and difficulty forming it into lens elements. (Right now, only Nikon is using fluorite in some of their telephotos. "FL" Nikkors are considerably more expensive than comparable Canon lenses. For example, the Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8 "FL" is 33% or $700 more expensive than the equiv. Canon lens.)

If you're still serious about pro sports photography, you will need top quality gear. Above are what I'd consider minimums.... IMO, you really can't go much cheaper (especially with lenses) or you'll start having problems. Also, you may want to consider getting a college degree in journalism or photography and while in school you can get involved shooting college's football games. Local high school games would be a good proving ground, too. You also might look for opportunities to assist a pro.... learn from them and perhaps open some doors to your own career.

Hope this helps!

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Oct 20, 2018 14:23:10   #
Photopro
 
in my.last reply i stated that i had great faith and the almighty would take care of you.because he has a plan for me and everyone on this planet. I believe that my heavenly father will get me past any obstacle that stands in my way. I m not anybody that's cracked on religion.just a normal person that truly believes in his word.

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Oct 20, 2018 14:24:41   #
leftj Loc: Texas
 
PHRubin wrote:
Most replies are discouraging. Let me point out some simple things to consider.

1) Reach! You need a pretty long lens
2) This means you need to stabilize your camera, a tripod or monopod
3) Light! Long lenses tend to be of lower wide open aperture so compromise is in order to save $. The fastest lenses and most sensitive bodies cost.
4) Weather! To be a reliable pro you need to be there in all weather. A weatherproofed/ruggedized camera is a boon


Replies are discouraging because the initial post was just a bait post.

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Oct 20, 2018 14:38:11   #
ELNikkor
 
Great to have a dream, and if you are young and single, do all you can to make that dream come true. If you already have a spouse/significant other, your decisions are no longer all your own and you have to weigh their needs and opinions against everything you want to do. If you have children, that makes it even more of a challenge to "pursue your dreams". All of my aspirations as a photographer changed when I got married and had 3 wonderful boys. Photography was no longer in the "picture" as a vocation, though I have had so much inspiration and opportunity do continue to do photography, just in the context of it being a hobby and family documentary.

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Oct 20, 2018 14:53:37   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
leftj wrote:
Replies are discouraging because the initial post was just a bait post.


Maybe so, but the world (and Craigslist) is filled with “$500 wedding photographers” who just bought a T5i with one kit lens - seriously. And people that employ these “photographers” get what they pay for.

My son, who has multiple degrees in graphic design and photography from a major University and has taught those subjects in HS for a number of years is just starting to actually make a “little” money shooting engagement photos and a few weddings and has just auctioned off his first fine art print for >$200. He shoots a 5D3 and a 7D2 and has a collection of L series primes and zooms. He’s lucky enough to have, in addition to a good education (and some talent), a working pro who mentors him daily (and a dad who loans him equipment when he needs something I have). In short, he’s paid his dues, been a second shooter, started with small projects, shooting HS and then college sports, and he’s just beginning! It ain’t easy to make a living in photography!

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