Linda From Maine Loc: Yakima, Washington

I try to save my harshest comments for the known trolls or those whose behavior is beyond even the low standard set here for respect and decency. But last evening I was rather rude in a topic called "Same Old Shots." My excuse is I'm just so darned tired of all the negativity.

But there's good news! If you read further into that topic, you will find much thoughtful discussion and some super photos (not mine, lol, I'm referring to the b&w rodeo series). And now there is a Gallery topic by tinwhistle with more engaging "non-traditional-view" pics that he was inspired to post because of that discussion.

Is there an easy answer to why are there so few topics of substance here - outside of gear, software and travel destinations? Is there a cure?

...in the meantime, I invite you all to join a discussion topic in For Your Consideration about The Rule of Odds. No, it doesn't contain the secrets of the psychology of anonymous (i.e. no consequences) behavior on the internet

AndyH Loc: Massachusetts and New Hampshire

It is a basic characteristic of all anonymous Internet forums, I'm afraid.

Personality types vary, for sure, and some of our worst tendencies are magnified behind the shield of anonymity. Timid Tim turns into an avenging keyboard warrior, slashing through any dissenting views; Self-effacing Sue becomes a merciless troll, baiting the bears with outrageous opinions presented as "fact". Venom draws clicks, and clicks make money. Just check out the "most active" topics list most days. And, of course, the numerous ads that pop up for UHH with, if we're honest with ourselves, pretty idiotic headers - "Nikon or Canon? Which is best?"

It's the age we live in, but I must say that the good still outweighs the bad by a lot. I'll check out your thread suggestion.

Andy

TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC

Linda, I think your comments are on-point. Personally, I abhor rudeness. A passionate discussion with differing opinions is good, but ad hominem attacks are not. But there are times when a particular rude or relentless troll brings an equivalent response. In my 6000+ posts, I don’t think there’s a single ad hominem attack, but recently, in an 18+ page “discussion” across two threads, I called one member, who was stubbornly and relentlessly baiting other posters in spite of multiple proofs to the contrary of his position, a “fake”. I regret that, but sometimes, even reasonable people are pushed beyond their limits, so I think you can forgive yourself, but I welcome a discussion on forum etiquite, which recently has been pretty good, but has descended to ”attic quality” some number of times in the 3 years I’ve participated in this forum.

AndyH Loc: Massachusetts and New Hampshire

I can't imagine what you're talking about....

Some people do this on purpose, I'm afraid, in any anonymous forum. To some people, any attention is good attention. I've gotten into that last discussion as well, but I agree that the "wresting with a pig" metaphor is quite accurate. I think you were remarkably patient in it.

Andy

Haydon

I understand why you reacted and sometimes there's a tipping point. We are judged by the whole and not one single comment. You're one of UHH's saints in my opinion and an inspiration to many.

TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC

Thanks Andy 😸.

Cheers,
Chris

burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC

Rude? Honest was more like it. Personally, I thought you were mild-mannered.

Unfortunately, some people can't handle the truth. They seem to take offense at every little thing that disagrees with them. They are the Myers-Briggs Personality Types with an 'FP' (feeling, perceptive) score. We 'TJ' (thinking, judgmental) types tend to have a blind spot where truth meets emotions. We have the uncanny capacity to offend without even knowing we might be doing it. WE and those similar to us think we're being constructive, helpful, and positive, but someone in the virtual crowd thinks we're critical, confrontational, and negative.

Unfortunately, Internet forums are asynchronous forms of verbal communication. There's no smiling face or empathetic vocal inflection (save for bold, italic, and underlined type) to temper a message.

I don't think I'm being too cynical when I comment that there are few *topics* of substance because most people just aren't that deep. As Jackson Browne sang, "I wanna be a happy idiot (and struggle for the Legal Tender)." I mean ZERO offense by that, folks!

I've been amazed over the last few days of buzz about the new Nikon mirrorless line. It's so tribal! People spout such meaningless drivel and pure speculation. Ford/Chevy, Mac/PC, Levis/Wranglers, Nikon/Canon/Sony... In truth, we should be out using what we have and doing the best with it.

Tuesday, I did just that. I photographed my son for a "head shot" (I hate that term, but the motion picture industry uses it to describe a promotional photo). He is in Film and Theatre Production at Western Carolina University. While he wants to write/produce/direct, he is a sometime actor. Here's a sample low key available window light portrait taken in his dorm room.

I'll check out 'rule of odds.'

https://www.imdb.com/name/nm9338431/?ref_=nmbio_bio_nm

(Download)

Linda From Maine Loc: Yakima, Washington

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burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC

It could be that there's just a group of grumpy old folks suffering from various infirmities here, too!

Put some shutter actuations on those digital cameras, folks! Don't just talk about 'em. 50,000 clicks is barely broken in.

Linda From Maine Loc: Yakima, Washington

Thanks for the comments, everyone! I had to quickly edit this posting as Bill sneaked in with his fantastic observations and explanations.

Someone suggested in a pm that most of the respondents are in main forum for "the entertainment." Bill's mention of people just not being that deep is a wake-up also. I've been spending far too much time in For Your Consideration over the years, I guess

If there was a section for gear talk only, and if some of the main forum topics were moved to chit-chat, and if there was a separate G.O.M.U., maybe conversations (with photo examples!) to teach and learn composition, light, artistic vs. technical and so forth would appear at least as frequently as the complaints.

R.G. Loc: Scotland

I haven't worked my way through that thread yet (possibly won't....) but I'm not surprised that it produced some worthwhile stuff. My assessment is that the thread was a genuine attempt to evoke some originality in the OP's fellow forum members. For that to happen, sometimes we have to be shown the shortcomings of what we already have. That is always going to be a process that's fraught with all sorts of potential triggers. As others have suggested, the OP would have made a better case for his suggestion if he'd included his own examples of what he was referring to. I'm guessing that the thread picked up when others started posting their own examples.

You also wonder why there aren't more threads of substance in the forum. I think the simple fact is most people are aware that it's not easy to get a "thread of substance" up and running and then keep it running smoothly and on topic. The thread that we're referring to is a good example of a good idea that needed better execution. But it sounds like it got there in the end.

Linda From Maine Loc: Yakima, Washington

Thank you for your thoughtful comments, R.G. Your sensible conclusions resonated!

Linary Loc: UK

Since 2012 - when I first started looking at UHH, there have been hundreds and hundreds of posts discussing the behaviour both good and bad of UHH members. There have been threads pleading for politeness and begging for posts to stay on track. There have been requests for some to speak up, some to shut up and even a few expulsions from the Hog.

Two of the major disruptors, though still with us, now run their own sections and run them well.

I am aware of several members who were victimised at some point by the "internet bully boys" and either stayed offline for some time or even for ever. There are several posts even lately where the the poster starts the discussion with "I know it's a stupid question - but ..." or "I did not really want to ask this but..."

There are answers: "You should have Googled first", "Don't ask here - read your Manual" Not the kind of response that would encourage anyone to ask again.

It isn't going to change is it?

My solution would be to have every section - including this section - monitored and obnoxious posts deleted. I am sure there would be volunteers to do the job, just as there are in the other sections.

Linda From Maine Loc: Yakima, Washington

I agree that the only solution is a monitor. Main forum is so large, though, it'd take at least three people in 8-hour shifts!

I do recognize the reality of controversy = clicks = money = keeping the forum free to us. But I also think there should be more support of (and reward to?) those who try to do right. Sort of like when I was able to get my sx50 replaced for free four weeks after the warranty expired: I convinced them I deserved it after alerting them to the dozens of topics I had posted to UHH about the product

Photocraig

I'm here to follow YOU! Your evolution from relative newbie to discerning commentator is why we're here. Enough of that, though. A thought on the rule of Odds, while an interesting psycho/visual/compositional technique to attract a viewer's attention, I suspect it has much to do with attracting members (OP and poster excluded) to our beloved forum.
C