ConnieLynn

A client wanted a picture for her website. The first shoot was kind of my fault, took her to a college campus on a windy day. None of these pictures were very good. Had a second shoot in her flower shop. I thought we got some great shot of her this time. Well I guess I may have offended her by cleaning up some of her features. ie: whiten teeth, removed moles, smooth some wrinkled skin etc. She told me she liked theses pictures but her collar was too wrinkled. Now I just have not learned how to iron clothes in photoshop. And she told me "she must have needed more help than she thought". So, I did not charge anything and she has the digital photos and can use them if she wants to.

Does everyone else assume the client wants there yellow teeth whiten, moles removed etc. Some clients are just not photogenic, I tried and think this one has bit me!

ConnieLynn

PixelStan77 Loc: Vermont/Chicago

I deliver images as she/he is. I never assume she/h wants upgrades to her body UNLESS she/he requests it.I think you handed the business part OK,however I would ask her if she wants an image as she is?

ConnieLynn

you are probably right, I should.

rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona

I'm with Stan on this one. Additionally, I discuss how "natural" the client wants to look in the final photos. Then, let them decide how much "makeup" I apply.
--Bob

BebuLamar

Perhaps you should try CGI and don't need a camera.

Ron Dial Loc: Cuenca, Ecuador

All digital photos, scanned or shot, will yellow teeth and the whites of the eyes. The trick is when you whiten them is to not do it too much. Don't make it look like they just went to the dentist. Is easier to do in Photoshop, where you make a new layer of White, then make a black mask and use a soft brush to paint the white in. Turn down the opacity of the white layer. Same thing with the eyes. Make it look natural, just enough to counter the digital yellowing.

You can also put a slight Gaussian blur over the face in a new layer, and use a black mask and a soft brush to take away the blur on eyebrows, eyes, nostrils, hair, mouth and teeth. You can leave the soft blur on the mole, or take away the blur. The blur has the effect of applying airbrushed make-up to the face. It is usually more acceptable to the client than taking out all of the wrinkles. Turn down the opacity of the layer to make it look natural.

You can do the same thing to clothes, and take the mask away on the edges of the clothes. It will appear they have been ironed.

Katrin Eismann has a book on Photo Retouching and Restoration that is excellent. You might consider purchasing it. It is in its 4th printing.

amfoto1 Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA

Every client is different!

I often do some "retouching".... But I almost always keep it very subtle and would never try to make an 80 year old look like she'd 18 again!

Do they think of that as a "mole" or as a "beauty mark"? I'd leave it... maybe tone it down slightly... and see the reaction. Then if they ask you to remove it... well that's another thing!

When I shot film, for feminine portraits I frequently used "black mesh" and "black splatter" filters that reduced fine detail slightly. I still occasionally use those filters with digital, but much the same can be accomplished in post processing. Masculine portraits are another matter... often can be a lot more "harsh reality".

IMO, retouching has to be kept to a minimum... It's very easy to overdo. Using Photoshop, I'll often do the work on a separate layer, then with the images sized to approx. it's planned use on my monitor, adjust layer transparency to visually decide how much of the retouching to apply to the image.

As to the wrinkled collar.... Clothing, background, even make-up are all things you need to be acutely aware of and can better deal with BEFORE pressing the shutter release. It's no different with a portrait than a scenic shot or architecture, or whatever. The other day someone posted a scenic shot and there was a bright red plastic Dixie cup lying in one corner of the image. All I could think while viewing the photo was "Wouldn't it have been easy to pick that up first, so that it wouldn't be in the image?" I've seen the same with real estate/architecture photos where tubes of toothpaste were lying on the bathroom counter or a dish with a half-eaten sandwich was left on the kitchen counter or kid's/pet's toys lying about on the floor of a room. It's usually pretty easy to retouch things out digitally (if there aren't too many of them), but why not just deal with the "issues" before taking the shot?

That collar might have been possible to deal with simply by rearranging her clothing slightly or by using a clothes pin around behind her, had you noticed it before taking the photo.

Posing people is challenging. There are a lot of little "tricks" that can be used to deal with individual "problems".... For example, slight repositioning of the camera and/or adjustment of the person's pose and how their head is positioned can avoid a double chin or wrinkling of their neck.

When I was shooting a lot more portraits, I had a three-ring binder with pages of line drawings of poses for individuals, couples and small groups, that I could use for my own reference and to show the model(s). Still have that book somewhere... I'll get it back out if and when I find myself doing more portrait work.

I also sometimes used a sample book of photos to discuss image style with customers... various types of lighting and levels of retouching. (And I had a "clip file" of other peoples' images, mostly taken from magazines, for my own reference.)

Monte Zucker was a master of portraiture by available light.... if you can find any of his books, grab them and read them for ideas. There are a number of other books on portraiture that might be worth a read, but Monte's are always among the first that come to my mind. His style looks very natural, relaxed and unposed. But I bet a lot of care and work went into each and every shot.

drklrd Loc: Cincinnati Ohio

First I ask\, "Are you a newbie to the business?"
She was using you for free photos. I would lay money on it especially if you gave her full resolutions shots. Back in the days of prints if you did not put the word "Proof" over a print you probably would not sell any prints. Learned that after a long days session in a seminar with Monte Zucker. A bunch of us pro's would sit around seminars and pick the brains of the top pro's so that we could become better as pro's ourselves. Now do not get me wrong you can give away your work if you want to. In this digital age you put your name on everything including the proofs. and the digital proofs need to be low resolution so low they cannot make anything from the shot. You also do not deliver all of your work and you only work on an image for color balance and sharpness until you discuss retouching with your client. I hope you get the young lady to sign a model release for the shots she got from you. If not you cannot use them for much of anything in the way of display in a studio or magazine. You might be able to use them in a portfolio but not much more than that. Next time just be wary of your client and understand you get payment up front at the time of the shoot. For weddings I get minimum 2/3rds before the wedding and the last 1/3 when I show up at the wedding. As a pro I won't even start shooting at a wedding until the last 1/3 is paid on the wedding day. For a normal shoot I get at least $50 to shoot for the first hour upfront. Deliver lower resolution proofs with the word proof on the front of the picture and make sure your name is in your camera as copyright name and deliver either in person or e-mail. They already paid you're good for at least the shoot. Right now I am working on my website and they will do the printing for me down the road while they keep copies of my images on file for the customer to view and do not let clients download any of the shots they have in their files. I have had my portfolio at this site for a few years now and now I am thinking of spending the extra for the site to make the prints for the clients. Please take a look at earlspics.com or elmphotography.com and shoot me an email from there. I would like to know how it works for viewing and try left clicking to download as I need to find out how secure the site is for it. I have 40 years a photographer and several Associate degrees in art associated and business associated fields of study. Hope you learned a lesson from this woman as a reason to get paid up front. I learned my lesson from a cousin's wedding over 30 years ago and still I have not been paid for it. Experience counts a lot. If you like to shoot and can handle weddings there are a lot of studios out there looking for great shooters. Only if you have the right gear can it happen though as the studios won't pay for your gear just like magazines won't pay for your gear.

kskarma Loc: Topeka, KS

There's a TON of good information and great tips is this Topic/Thread...about the only thing that I can add to the previous posts would be that if you think you will be needing photos with a 'softer' touch, think about using broader lighting, bounce light or multiple lights. A small soft-box a few feet off camera can do wonders when it comes what might be needed during retouching. As amphoto1 pointed out, doing all you can to get it right when the photo is shot can really save time later on... Thanks goodness for digital....where you can immediately see the results...!

rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona

ConnieLynn, first off, this is not political. I'll work for whichever client wants to pay. I was asked if I could do just a bit of a retouch to facilitate appearance. Sure.
--Bob

I wish there was a tongue in cheek smilie.

ConnieLynn

I really don't think I made her look like plastic.

I'm not at my home computer, but I will try to post some before and afters.

ConnieLynn

Thanks everyone to the recommendations and the books. I do need more training (self training) on portrait work. Most of what I have done is pretty good and my clients were happy. But, I can look at others work online and see their skills are superior to mine.

JohnSwanda Loc: San Francisco

Whitening teeth and whites of eyes is one thing. I almost always do that in a subtle way. I usually lighten bags under eyes and facial lines, again in a subtle way, so they are still visible but just lighter. But removing moles I always ask about. I would say more people want to keep them than want them removed. Communication is the most important thing. I tell them I can do retouching and ask if there is anything they want done. Often people will say they like a certain photo except for something I can fix, like sleepy eyes or crooked smiles, or they look too heavy, and they are happy that I can fix it. But I would never do something like that without asking.

rgrenaderphoto Loc: Hollywood, CA

Never change unless they ask or you volunteer to do so at the time of the first viewing. People are very particular these days.

Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)

NEVER assume anything. Always ask. In this case, better to ask permission than to beg forgiveness. You may want to make a sample image of a before and after mild retouch and ask the client if they would like that.