What is the T***H? (Page 2): It wasn't smaller than an atom; there were no atoms to compare it to. The Big Bang is not an alternative to the existence of God. But the existence of God...

jcboy3

SteveR wrote:

The alternative is that all the mass of the universe exploded in and of itself from a single point in space smaller than an atom.

The fact that I love is that there are more stars in the universe than grains of sand on earth.

Wow, when God creates He really does it big time!!

It wasn't smaller than an atom; there were no atoms to compare it to.

The Big Bang is not an alternative to the existence of God.

But the existence of God is an alternative to rational thought.

SteveR Loc: Michigan

jcboy3 wrote:

It wasn't smaller than an atom; there were no atoms to compare it to.

The Big Bang is not an alternative to the existence of God.

But the existence of God is an alternative to rational thought.

I might even question your proposition that God is an alternative to rational thought. Recently scientists have listed about four possible causes for the Big Bang. God was one of them. So....I would have to say that even those using rational thought, when coming to the end of all possible conclusions, God was in the rational mix.

thom w Loc: San Jose, CA

SteveR wrote:

Protestantism is clear on Sole Fide, Sole Scriptur... (show quote)

Protestantism is a pretty new religion, isn't it?

SteveR Loc: Michigan

thom w wrote:

Protestantism is a pretty new religion, isn't it?

Not really. Catholicism strayed from the T***h. Protestantism is merely a correction back to the original faith.

jcboy3

SteveR wrote:

I might even question your proposition that God is an alternative to rational thought. Recently scientists have listed about four possible causes for the Big Bang. God was one of them. So....I would have to say that even those using rational thought, when coming to the end of all possible conclusions, God was in the rational mix.

That was a purely political statement. There is no evidence of a God that could cause the Big Bang, so who needs it as an explanation?

SteveR Loc: Michigan

jcboy3 wrote:

That was a purely political statement. There is no evidence of a God that could cause the Big Bang, so who needs it as an explanation?

There is no evidence to show that anything could appear from nothing. And why from that particular spot in space and no other? And why did the Bang produce as much as it did but no more? What you propose is no more rational that to believe that God created the universe. On the other hand, there is a great deal of rationality in seeing how God provided for all that was needed for the earth as it is: the moon to hold the earth at the correct angle to rotate on its access and to control the tides of the oceans; the perfect amount of water; the iron from distant dead stars and other minerals needed for man to survive; oil; etc. The planets which protect the earth from asteroids such as Jupiter. The perfect distance that the earth is from the sun. An on and on and on. There is a rational argument for the existence of God and it comes from Creation itself. Creation displays the Power of God Himself for anybody who will open their eyes to see it. It's what led me to really believe in the existence of God.

jcboy3

SteveR wrote:

There is no evidence to show that anything could a... (show quote)

None of this is rational. The inability to explain something is not sufficient justification to posit the existence of a cause that then cannot be explained. Put simply, if God created the Universe, then what created God?

You think that a confluence of events must have some cause other than random chance. As you said, more stars than grains of sand. More opportunities for things to be the way they are here, as well as elsewhere.

The rational argument for things to be as they are is simply because that is the way things are.

SteveR Loc: Michigan

jcboy3 wrote:

None of this is rational. The inability to explai... (show quote)

But what you're saying is that out of totally empty space all of this arose. Totally irrational.

Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.

chrisscholbe wrote:

Actually, we believe what we "think" God is revealing to us.

Not everyone interprets what the read in exactly the same way.

Your and my view of faith I believe would be quite different than that of a true believer, I am agnostic and the paragraph with which you opened and your statement here is one quite profound, and the following post is inline with the opening, but Steve has a firm belief in god and a completely different understanding of faith than at least I have and judging from your reply than you have also. I think that Steve is as sure in his interpretation of faith as you are in yours.

jcboy3

SteveR wrote:

But what you're saying is that out of totally empty space all of this arose. Totally irrational.

No, I said nothing of the kind. There is no evidence that there was any empty space.

Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.

jcboy3 wrote:

It wasn't smaller than an atom; there were no atoms to compare it to.

The Big Bang is not an alternative to the existence of God.

But the existence of God is an alternative to rational thought.

This my friend is a crock of s**t. The Big Bang Theory is a lessor explanation of the Universe than God is, where did the original matter come from? God is a mystery that can not be explained, god is and always was, the Big Bang Theory only begs more questions.

SteveR Loc: Michigan

jcboy3 wrote:

No, I said nothing of the kind. There is no evidence that there was any empty space.

Really? So what's eternal is really matter. How rational is that? Like what evidence is there for that?

jcboy3

SteveR wrote:

There is no evidence to show that anything could a... (show quote)

Again, you misunderstand. There was no "particular spot in space". There was no space; space was created by the Big Bang.

God is the anthropocentric creation of man, to avoid trying to answer any questions as to the origin of anything. If God created something, then asking how something was created other than by God is heresy.

Well, there is no God. Not now, not ever. Not "yours", not "theirs". Wh**ever you think of it, is delusional, deceptive, or a lie.

Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.

jcboy3 wrote:

Again, you misunderstand. There was no "part... (show quote)

This is what I love about liberals, how easily they insult the Christian faith.... Go tell a Muslim that is god is nothing more than a delusion. When you insult a man's faith you are debasing the core of his being, for some assholes it is so easy to do this especially when Christianity is involved. I can't help but notice how the same assholes so vehemently defend the Islamic faith.

jcboy3

Blurryeyed wrote:

This is what I love about liberals, how easily they insult the Christian faith.... Go tell a Muslim that is god is nothing more than a delusion. When you insult a man's faith you are debasing the core of his being, for some assholes it is so easy to do this especially when Christianity is involved. I can't help but notice how the same assholes so vehemently defend the Islamic faith.

And that is one of the key problems with religion. You feel that you can express your thought that there is a God, and that is not an insult to me. But if I express my thought that there is no God, then that is an insult to you.

Neither is an insult; just different opinions. What is an insult, is calling someone an asshole for expressing their opinion.

And don't try to lump me in with those that defend Islam. I don't; never have, never will.

But you are one of many on this site that feel the need to insult those with different opinions. Childish, petty, and ignorant.