ottopj wrote:
I like video taping the whole encounter mentioned earlier. Better than a witness.
Until the tape is thrown out at the supression hearing. A witness can be discredited, but not thrown out. Any evidence (e.g., video) has the possibility of getting ruled inadmissable for a myriad of reasons.
Architect1776 wrote:
What you did is good. With parents today being as crooked as ever looking to use children for a fast buck they would likely screw you over with lies as well. A dilemma of the times. I believe I would today have a video camera runnin the whole time they are there from arrival to leaving as a record.
Impractical, perhaps, but I can see some greedy stupid parent setting you up for a lawsuit.
You've got to be kidding; your pessimism is quite shocking!
It sounds like you've had a very bad experience.
There are minor specific contracts that require the parents signature
I would never shoot a a pic of a female alone let alone any minor ... male or female. I understand some graduation photos have even got a few reputable photographers in trouble. Some were set up by the poses the kids/parents wanted ..... very suggestive.
You express the nub of it: "If I were to move forward, I would insist that a parent be present during the shoot, and have a release signed, so I donโt know if Iโm being overly cautious, but this can be a crazy world at times, and Iโm wondering if it might be best just to pass on this one."
Not only should you have the parent present but also a third party of your choosing, as a witness.
By all means obtain a model release for a minor which the parent signs. You could have the witness do a video of the signing.
Do not touch the minor model for any reason. For example, you may see lint on the model's clothing or you may see a stray hair across the model's face. Ask the parent or the model to take care of these little tasks.
Know that some younger females like provocative pictures of themselves to show to friends and to boyfriends. I suggest you bring up this topic with the parent before the shoot, to insist on modesty by the minor model.
I speak from experience. You have to protect yourself as the photographer. If you have an attorney, seek his or her advice, too, in this matter.
If you still feel uncomfortable about doing the shoot, then do not do it. Inform the parent that on advice, you have to cancel the shoot.
You could still build your portfolio by hiring adult models to pose for your camera.
Note on makeup, if you do this (or another) shoot involving female models: Have the model go to a makeup store that for a fee will do the makeup. The store staff will do the makeup to flatter the model. One place I use charges $50 for this task. The model looks and feels great with this approach.
Good luck.
Pat F 4119 wrote:
In an attempt to build my portfolio, I have agreed to several photo shoots free of charge while I work on improving my off-camera lighting skills. Iโve recently been approached by a parent of 16 year old daughter interested in building a portfolio for a possible modeling career, but since Iโm not a professional photographer (yet), and my instincts are telling me there may be some legal ramifications and risks that would make this a situation something best to avoid. Iโm in the US, so Iโm wondering if anyone here has had a similar experience or could offer some advice. If I were to move forward, I would insist that a parent be present during the shoot, and have a release signed, so I donโt know if Iโm being overly cautious, but this can be a crazy world at times, and Iโm wondering if it might be best just to pass on this one. Thanks.
In an attempt to build my portfolio, I have agreed... (
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mgoldfield wrote:
You've got to be kidding; your pessimism is quite shocking!
It sounds like you've had a very bad experience.
I went to court.
I ultimately won at great expense.
It was shown the dirt bag mother who was present was making it all up and coerced the minor to lie as well.
Once they lost they booked out to who knows where to find another sucker.
Yep: "But it still shows that anyone can be sued, for any reason - even without merit."
Gene51 wrote:
She brought the ad to the attention of her attorney. I think the attorney smelled money and started the process. Ultimately there was no cost on my side, because, other than the tiny advertisement she had no proof. I did tell her to contact the source of the ad and ask them for a copy of the model release. More work for her, but I believe that the company provided it and she realized she had no case against me. If she was an experienced attorney, she would have asked for the release for the model used in the ad first. But it still shows that anyone can be sued, for any reason - even without merit.
She brought the ad to the attention of her attorne... (
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Pat F 4119 wrote:
Wow, this is what I suspected, you just never know about some people unfortunately. While I really appreciate the great suggestions so far, especially the videotaping idea, Iโm thinking this is just not worth the hassle, because even if I am legally within my rights, I would still be required to bear the cost of a legal defense if I were to be sued. Also, Iโm sure my creativity would be stifled if during the entire shoot, if I were thinking about whether I could be sued or not. I would really love to help a young person get a start, but unfortunately, I just donโt think itโs worth the risk. Very sad.
Wow, this is what I suspected, you just never know... (
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You can be sued for anything. I shoot minors frequently. I would not get worked up about it. But you should take a few additional precautions.
1. The minor should always have a legal guardian chaperone. You need to be sure that this person is, in fact, a legal guardian. Obtain photocopies of the model and chaperone IDs.
2. Use a model release and get signatures for both model and chaperone. Unless you have some specific commercial application, I would limit the model release to cover use of the photos in your portfolio (web site, social media) if that is your intent.
3. Get concurrence for acceptable photos. In fact, I stipulate that pictures must be approved by the model and chaperone for use in my portfolio, via a separate model release that includes those images. This avoids the issue that the model and/or chaperone were not aware of the photos you use.
4. Delete all photos that do not have a subsequent use approval. Mistakes happen, and you don't want to use a photo that was not approved.
5. Keep good records. I put date and model names in image metadata, image file names, model releases, model release file names. Keep good contact information for model and guardian as well.
If you want to subsequently use one of the photos for commercial purposes, then you can contact the model and legal guardian. You'll need a separate model release for the specific commercial purpose (usually, the customer will want that anyway).
A 16-year-old female is not a child, she is a minor. By her mid-teens, she may've already matured into a young adult both physically and mentally. This fact makes all the more vital and important to take every precaution when photographing a minor.
tommy2 wrote:
The other side of the coin is just as heartbreaking: The trauma of making a child available to a photographer to photograph. I'd not be surprised to read here about parents wanting references, signed agreements, etc. from the photographer one of these days. (Spent years as a Children's Advocacy Center board member and saw it all happen one way or another.)
Maybe PETA will begin suing wildlife photographers on behalf of โinjuredโ animals whose images were taken without permission. PETA needs money too...
mgoldfield wrote:
You've got to be kidding; your pessimism is quite shocking!
It sounds like you've had a very bad experience.
I have been in police work and private investigation. You would really be surprised at the amount of crooked people who will take advantage of almost any situation. Best is to cover yourself and a video with sound is a good method. This is why a lot of police wear body cams these days. Even if they buy them out of pocket they use them.
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