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Successful Computer Upgrade!
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Apr 24, 2018 14:17:51   #
mikeroetex Loc: Lafayette, LA
 
TriX wrote:
Agree - just not an issue in normal use. Now if you’re running a transactional server in a business environment, then that’s a different matter. Btw, it’s peta bytes 😎.

Cheers

Good to know... thanks! 👍

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Apr 24, 2018 15:34:31   #
DirtFarmer Loc: Escaped from the NYC area, back to MA
 
mikeroetex wrote:
According to this research, it isn't likely to ever be a problem. Most fears about rewrite capacity is overflown these days.

As the article shows, even the cheapest drive lasted 1000 TB of write cycles, but most went over 1.1 PB, as in penta bytes. If my math is correct, a 250gig drive at 46 mega per photo could store over 500,000 photos and handle 21,200,000 changes (rewrites). Assuming 10,000 images a month, it would take 4 years to fill and allow (rewrites) at 300 a day per photo for 181 years. If I missed a decimal, only 18 years. Plenty of space left for the OP to process work.

Even if my rough math is way off, those dives are gonna last a long time! Anyway, good article worth a read.

https://techreport.com/review/27909/the-ssd-endurance-experiment-theyre-all-dead
According to this research, it isn't likely to eve... (show quote)


I'm a little unsure of the methodology but it sounds like he fills the SSD and then keeps writing over it. The SSDs tested were all around 250 Gb so 4 overwrites amounts to 1 Terabyte and writing a petabyte of data (total) amounts to something like 4000 writes/byte, still in the ballpark of 1000 writes that I had heard before. That's rewriting the whole thing, so obviously rewriting a file here and there would take a while to overwrite the whole disk and the 1000 write figure doesn't mean that your disk is only good for a few years (again, assuming you're an individual not using the disk at industrial rates).

Nevertheless, the fact that there is a write limit means that backup/archiving is really important.

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Apr 24, 2018 17:00:08   #
rfmaude41 Loc: Lancaster, Texas (DFW area)
 
DirtFarmer wrote:
I think you still want a mechanical HD.

SSDs are nice for fast response but they do have limited write cycles (something like 1000?). For that reason they're great for the root drive, which holds all the programs and constant data, but they are not appropriate for ephemeral data. Keep your programs on the SSD and your data on the mechanical HD.


The "modern" SSD can go to 1,000,000 write cycles.

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Apr 24, 2018 17:06:37   #
rdrechsler Loc: Channel Islands Harbor, CA
 
rfmaude41 wrote:
The "modern" SSD can go to 1,000,000 write cycles.


Haha. If only I live that long!

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Apr 24, 2018 17:06:59   #
rfmaude41 Loc: Lancaster, Texas (DFW area)
 
DirtFarmer wrote:
I think you still want a mechanical HD.

SSDs are nice for fast response but they do have limited write cycles (something like 1000?). For that reason they're great for the root drive, which holds all the programs and constant data, but they are not appropriate for ephemeral data. Keep your programs on the SSD and your data on the mechanical HD.


My two SSD's probably have been thru several hundred thousand cycles and have, not once, failed in any respect; they are about four years old, both Samsung EVO's.

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Apr 24, 2018 18:15:43   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
The bottom line is that if you can afford them (in terms of $/TB), SSDs are THE answer, both in terms of reliability and speed.

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Apr 24, 2018 22:40:22   #
JD750 Loc: SoCal
 
rdrechsler wrote:
Hi have an HP Pavilion computer and a pretty good one (12Mb RAM, 1Tb Hard Drive and an Intel i5-7400 processor), however, when I got the Nikon D850 and started dealing with huge (50Mb+) files, Focus Shifting with 50 or more images, etc., it just didn't work. I could start a Merge Layers process and go downstairs to watch TV for a half hour before it was done. Something had to give and no way I could afford $3000 - $5000 for a high end computer to speed up my workflow. So I went to Fry's, a local SoCal electronics store chain, and worked out an upgrade plan. Here's what I did:

1) Upgraded the processor from the Intel i5 to an Intel i7-7700K.
2) Swapped out the old cooling unit for a low profile Thermaltake Engine 27 cooler.
3) Bypassed the 1Tb mechanical hard drive with two 500Gb Samsung SSD drives.
4) Added more RAM using Samsung boards to bring the total to 32 Gb.

The total cost was just under $1400 (including $250 of labor). The result is miraculous. Most large processing projects in Photoshop are completely seamless with instantaneous results. When using stacking functions the processes run in seconds instead of many, many minutes. It wasn't the cheapest thing to accomplish, but far less than buying a comparable (if you can find it) computer from scratch and WELL WORTH the money!
Hi have an HP Pavilion computer and a pretty good ... (show quote)


Why is this posted in a Photography blog?

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Apr 24, 2018 22:46:25   #
rdrechsler Loc: Channel Islands Harbor, CA
 
JD750 wrote:
Why is this posted in a Photography blog?


I think it’s relevant because I had to upgrade my computer to handle the large files the Nikon D850 produces. I thought the information and the ensuing and lively dialogue would be useful to others facing the same issue. There are numerous threads about computers in the archives, so I perceived an interest when I made the post. Just goes to show you can’t please all the people all the time

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Apr 24, 2018 22:58:53   #
chasgroh Loc: Buena Park, CA
 
DirtFarmer wrote:
I think you still want a mechanical HD.

SSDs are nice for fast response but they do have limited write cycles (something like 1000?). For that reason they're great for the root drive, which holds all the programs and constant data, but they are not appropriate for ephemeral data. Keep your programs on the SSD and your data on the mechanical HD.


...well, anecdotal as this comment is, my machines are *all* SSD and built along the lines of the OP's. Plug-in peripheral drives are out of the boxes, all processing and saving are done on/in the machine(s)...I back up to the externals. It's been 5 years and absolutely no problems. I just got one of the best of the best Nvidia GPU's and recently installed it in my main machine, in anticipation of building a new machine utilizing, again, all ssds, only taking advantage of the newest M2 slots. It only gets better, but the first edition machine certainly did its job. This is all real experience, not something I've read, shrug...

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Apr 24, 2018 23:45:49   #
GENorkus Loc: Washington Twp, Michigan
 
rdrechsler wrote:
Hi have an HP Pavilion computer and a pretty good one (12Mb RAM, 1Tb Hard Drive and an Intel i5-7400 processor), however, when I got the Nikon D850 and started dealing with huge (50Mb+) files, Focus Shifting with 50 or more images, etc., it just didn't work. I could start a Merge Layers process and go downstairs to watch TV for a half hour before it was done. Something had to give and no way I could afford $3000 - $5000 for a high end computer to speed up my workflow. So I went to Fry's, a local SoCal electronics store chain, and worked out an upgrade plan. Here's what I did:

1) Upgraded the processor from the Intel i5 to an Intel i7-7700K.
2) Swapped out the old cooling unit for a low profile Thermaltake Engine 27 cooler.
3) Bypassed the 1Tb mechanical hard drive with two 500Gb Samsung SSD drives.
4) Added more RAM using Samsung boards to bring the total to 32 Gb.

The total cost was just under $1400 (including $250 of labor). The result is miraculous. Most large processing projects in Photoshop are completely seamless with instantaneous results. When using stacking functions the processes run in seconds instead of many, many minutes. It wasn't the cheapest thing to accomplish, but far less than buying a comparable (if you can find it) computer from scratch and WELL WORTH the money!
Hi have an HP Pavilion computer and a pretty good ... (show quote)


For me the overall cost is out of my budget but using the SSD's are a good choice. I'm using the Intell i7-7700, a 7th generation processor. You'll find that processor has built into it, 630 graphics card. While that is not the latest and greatest graphics, it still works very well. At any time you can allways purchase a newer and bigger card for your computer's slot(s).

I don't know your workload although the two 500gb SSD's will probably last you 10+ years under "normal" use. By normal I mean for you to not go over around 80 percent of filling up either of the two SSD's. The lower the fill percentage, the better. A friend put a 256gb SSD in for his C-drive and quickly proceeded to fill around 95% of it with data leaving only around 5% for day-to-day operations. That SSD only lasted a few months, plus there is presently no way to rescue the data on an SSD. He made this mistake twice before learning. he was lucky the factory covered them. After learning about the proper fill percentage, he hasn't had a problem since.

My computer is a Dell although HP may have the same offering that I got. I contacted Dell asking about graphic cards and they also offered me a free "Support Assistant" download program where I can run several parts of it to check many parts of my system. (I understand both Dell and Intel computer techs use the same program when and if you ever call in for support.) Memory, processor, graphics card, circuit board, upgrades, etc. to name a few things. Dell offers it as a free lifetime program for those who purchase their computer. You should check if HP offers something like that. I seem to remember back in the 90's, when I had an HP computer they did.

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Apr 27, 2018 22:15:32   #
JD750 Loc: SoCal
 
rdrechsler wrote:
I think it’s relevant because I had to upgrade my computer to handle the large files the Nikon D850 produces. I thought the information and the ensuing and lively dialogue would be useful to others facing the same issue. There are numerous threads about computers in the archives, so I perceived an interest when I made the post. Just goes to show you can’t please all the people all the time
I think it’s relevant because I had to upgrade my ... (show quote)


I am not displeased but this seems like this is more about post processing hardware (computers) than photography.

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Apr 27, 2018 22:18:42   #
chasgroh Loc: Buena Park, CA
 
JD750 wrote:
I am not displeased but this seems like this is more about post processing hardware (computers) than photography.


...you aren't required to participate. Personally, I gravitate to tools, and the computer is a huge part of my photography...and I'm not the only one who feels so. Why even post anything? Are you trying to save us?

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Apr 27, 2018 22:23:06   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
GENorkus wrote:
For me the overall cost is out of my budget but using the SSD's are a good choice. I'm using the Intell i7-7700, a 7th generation processor. You'll find that processor has built into it, 630 graphics card. While that is not the latest and greatest graphics, it still works very well. At any time you can allways purchase a newer and bigger card for your computer's slot(s).

I don't know your workload although the two 500gb SSD's will probably last you 10+ years under "normal" use. By normal I mean for you to not go over around 80 percent of filling up either of the two SSD's. The lower the fill percentage, the better. A friend put a 256gb SSD in for his C-drive and quickly proceeded to fill around 95% of it with data leaving only around 5% for day-to-day operations. That SSD only lasted a few months, plus there is presently no way to rescue the data on an SSD. He made this mistake twice before learning. he was lucky the factory covered them. After learning about the proper fill percentage, he hasn't had a problem since.

My computer is a Dell although HP may have the same offering that I got. I contacted Dell asking about graphic cards and they also offered me a free "Support Assistant" download program where I can run several parts of it to check many parts of my system. (I understand both Dell and Intel computer techs use the same program when and if you ever call in for support.) Memory, processor, graphics card, circuit board, upgrades, etc. to name a few things. Dell offers it as a free lifetime program for those who purchase their computer. You should check if HP offers something like that. I seem to remember back in the 90's, when I had an HP computer they did.
For me the overall cost is out of my budget but us... (show quote)


Modern SSDs have wear leveling, and Windows, starting with Win7, has implemented a TRIM function on writes, but if you run an SSD at 95% full (and especially if you have inadequate memory and are constantly paging to disk), then you are constantly erasing (which is what actually causes the degradation) and rewriting the same limited area of memory - not recommended for longevity.

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Apr 29, 2018 01:04:13   #
JD750 Loc: SoCal
 
chasgroh wrote:
...you aren't required to participate. Personally, I gravitate to tools, and the computer is a huge part of my photography...and I'm not the only one who feels so. Why even post anything? Are you trying to save us?


No not trying to save or police anybody. I am merely suggesting there might be other categories on this forum more appropriate for this topic.

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Apr 30, 2018 09:14:34   #
dsmeltz Loc: Philadelphia
 
JD750 wrote:
No not trying to save or police anybody. I am merely suggesting there might be other categories on this forum more appropriate for this topic.


Such as???

Cameras, lenses, PP software, computers are all part of the basic tools of the modern photographer. If the Computer does not belong in "Main Photography Discussion." Then neither does any other basic tool in the photographer's tool kit.

Since there are already separate forums for discussions of individual photos, that would mean that almost nothing should ever be posted here.

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