Naptown Gaijin

I am a private investigator with experience since high school (class of '67), shooting Canon, Olympus, Minox, etc film cameras. For past 5 years, I have used Lumix cameras, most recently the DMC-TZ4, which has a nice f2.8 zoom lens. My question is this:
1. Which camera and lens combo would you use for the following conditions?
a. Target distance: up to 100 yards
b. Time: could be daytime or night (think of the goodnight kiss on the front porch with distant streetlight or porchlight or walking.to car in motel parking lot).
c. Maximum time from seeing target until target is out of sight averages 3-8 seconds, so can't waste time focusing/zooming, etc.
d. Generally, distance to target will be known in advance, and most shots will be taken from inside a parked vehicle which has 35% tinted side windows.

I'm thinking a D750 body, but have also been looking at the A7RIII. Would prefer to spend under $2,000 on the lens, as I have no other need for a tele.

I will also be using the body for other photography, such as food in a restaurant, products in a studio, commercial portraits, and exteriors of commercial establishments, thought nite shots are my bread and butter.

I like tilt screen; must have an EVF 'cause we don't want that screen lighting me up at night; must have some type of VR, OS, or IS, since we will be shooting hand held at night at high ISO and relatively low shutter speed (never over 1/250, and usuallyuch slower). Prefer dual slot, don't need more than 5 or 6fps (this ain't a sport, yet), wifi would be nice too.

Question 2.: am leaning full frame, but open to your suggestions, based on YOUR PERSONAL EXPERIENCE. New Nikon P1000 with zoom to 2400mm or 3000mm (125x) is nice, but can it do what I want on such a small sensor? Any reason DX is better than FX, other then weght/price?

Looking for those very few professional private investigators who are also accomplished photographers to weigh in here. Am getting ready to drive to B&H next month to cure my g.a.s. attack! Money is not a major consideration, though I am not wasteful. Would go D850, but don't see a need for that many MPs.

Photos don't need high res, just need to be recognizable for positive id in court. Many thanks to all of you in advance... I love UHH and have learned a lot in the past month or research, both here, on utube, and the various sites on the internet.
Mark

rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona

From my personal investigative work, I used a full frame with a 400mm f/5.6. A mistake in the darkroom led to discovering a way to achieve evidence quality photographs using Tri-X at ISO somewhere over 6400.

Again, from personal experience, full frame digital is the better way to go along with using RAW for image capture. The main two reasons are size of image and less digital grain to distract from evidence quality subject photos. Though I haven't done investigative work using a digital, I have photographed in low light. The results would definitely be evidence quality.
--Bob

Naptown Gaijin

Bob, thanks for the reply. I have given some thought to pulling out my old Canon T-90, Vivitar 70-210 f2.8, and trying some of this new P3200 BW film, but today it is so digital. Can't even find film in Annapolis! What digital setup did you use for your night shots?

rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona

This particular photo, though not intended for investigative work, was done with a Nikon D700 and a 28~85, Nikkor f/3.5 4.5, ISO 400, tripod.
--Bob

(Download)

Resqu2 Loc: SW Va

Back when I did WC investigative work I just used a video camera. To many risk for me not being a great photographer to mess up a shot especially after dark. I don’t remember much about the video recorder I used but it did good at night. This was many years ago.

Naptown Gaijin

Nice shot!
How far was it from camera to library entrance door? Were you zoomed out to 85mm or at an intermediate setting?
Thanks again...Mark

boberic Loc: Quiet Corner, Connecticut. Ex long Islander

I would take a serious look at the Nikon DF. It's a Stills ONLY camera with spectacular low light performance--ISO to 200,000, at a thou less than the D850. Only 16mp but that's not a problem unless you want to print 24X36. From personal experience B&H has this annoying habit of wallet emptying

MT Shooter Loc: Montana

Nikon D850, sigma 150-600mm Sport lens, matched Sigma 1.4x TC for when its needed. And crop to your hearts content!!!

Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)

I've got a friend that does this on construction sites, at night. He uses a Canon 5DMkIII, and a 200mm F2, 300mm F2.8 and a 400mm F2.8 depending on the distances involved. He occasionally uses a 500mmF4 when there is decent light. His work has won/saved $1000s for his clients.

He uses a blimp when the sound of the shutter going off might attract attention.

I suspect a mirrorless camera is a good option as well.

But you should forget about smaller sensors - they are not as good as full frame cameras when it comes to low light. A Nikon D4S, D5, or even a D3S will do an outstanding job at high ISO - 12,800 ISO images look great and even 25,600 ISO.

There are some low light/high ISO (up to 36000) sample images to look at here:

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikon-d5-pro-dslr-review/7

PaulR01 Loc: West Texas

From a Freelance sport shooter low light shooting is my game. If you want to stay with Nikon the D500 or D7500 are beasts in low light. There performance is better than ad D3 and almost as good as the D4 with a 164,000 max ISO. You can get some amazing shots in the 12,800 to 16,000 range. As for glass you need the longest fastest lens you can afford in your budget. F 2.8 or faster. The larger the file size that the camera can deliver will allow for you to crop the photos to some degree for good clear shots at a 100 yards. 300mm with a 1.4 tele converter should handle most occasions. Sense you don't have to stop motion you can get away with a slower shutter speed and a higher F stop on occasion.

TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC

For low light high ISO, you can’t beat full frame. Either a D850, D4 or DF would be great choices, and a D5 is king (but pricey)

bpulv Loc: Buena Park, CA

Don't discount the D850's high megapixels and high ISO; especially for surveillance. The high megapixels will allow you to enlarge a portion of a picture substantially without a loss in detail. In effect, a 200mm lens can become the equivalent of a 600mm lens. A VR lens would also be a big aid for the purpose. Also, the very high sensor sensitivity will allow you to shoot at night with higher shutter speeds if needed. For night photography, you would be able to find a combination of higher shutter speed and ISO that would allow you to still crop a frame to effectively increase your lenses focal length while still maintaining the end quality you need. The trade off in higher weight and size could pay for itself in versatility and since you will use it from inside a car, it would not compromise your stealth.

foathog Loc: Greensboro, NC

I don't think he'll be using a tripod though. LOL I can't see him saying, "Can you look over this way please?" LOL

leftj Loc: Texas

Funny, the description of your photographic needs clearly indicate your business is investigating suspected infidelity in relationships.

Naptown Gaijin

I thought about that nice d850 with all those MPs, then read that the d750 with fewer MPs is a better gatherer of light, since each pixel is larger andore sensitive to light. I have read papers on this and am still confused. Some guys say you don't need anything over 12 or 20 or 25 MPs, while others are upgrading to the d850 or A7RIII and swear that the more MPs the better.

For my application, i will likely use a 300mm f2.8 prime with image stabilization. I will take that image and blow it up (crop) as much as needed to ensure we can get a positive ID on the subject.

I will shoot from inside a car because at my age (68), carrying a 9lb camera/lens combo while remaining invisible is too damn hard. Maybe I should hire some kid to push me around in a wheelchair??!?

Camera will also be used in a studio for other types of photography (when we are not out on the street) such as portraiture, macro, food, and products. So, while the Nikon Coolpix P1000 may be cool, it won't work for me. Need interchangable lenses, need Full Frame (or at least crop sensor), need at least 5FPS, and want but don't really need 4K video. Can get by with half way decent 1080 video, as long as parties are recognizeable.

Now I know most of you guys/gals are outstanding shutterbugs with superb resolution, no moire (whatever that is), great HDR, lo noise, no BD, and no CA, but for the outside nite shots, we aren't gonna be putting these in a gallery... a jury maybe, but only in a courtroom. For the other applications, yes, we will need as many of the good attributes as possible and as few of the negative (pun intended) ones as possible.

Think the choices have been narrowed down to Nikon, Canon, or Sony, and to a full frame. Beginning to think that a decent prime of at least 200-300mm with a large aperature, at least 2.8, is needed, to identify our target in low light 100 yards away. So, I think the lens manufacturers can be narrowed down to Tamron, Tokina, Sigma, and native.

Leaning toward D750 or D850, but still somewhat flexible.

REALLY GREATLY APPRECIATE ALL OF YOUR IDEAS AND SUGGESTIONS. I LOVE THIS SITE AND YOUR WILLINGNESS TO SHARE YOUR VAST KNOWLEGE.
THANK YOU VERY, VERY MUCH!!!

KEEP "EM COMING!!