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My biggest gripe about DSLR cameras, and Camera Companies
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Mar 4, 2018 09:17:16   #
wds0410 Loc: Nunya
 
dml wrote:
try pottery or sewing or sky diving.
be happy.



Reply
Mar 4, 2018 09:18:06   #
bobmcculloch Loc: NYC, NY
 
abstractist72 wrote:
Feel free to add to this GRIPE, if you feel the same way I do.

I started taking photographs 57 years ago with a Zeiss Ikon rangefinder 35 mm film camera.

I developed my own film and printed black and white photos for around 15 years, having moved to a few better cameras in the process.

1st upgrade was a Honeywell Pentax SLR with 35 mm, 55 mm and 135 mm lenses.

Later to a Nikon FM2 with 28 mm, 55 mm, 135 mm, and 200 mm.

Using every conceivable type of film possible.

I did portraiture, weddings, anniversary parties, Nature, you name it I just about photographed it.

This was all a hobby for me, I was only a professionally employed photographer for about 2 months, long story (won't go into that).

My GRIPE is what the camera companies did and did not do, and there missed opportunities when they developed DSLR cameras.

Now I would like to say, my camera bag had many varieties of film always ready for any occasion.

And when I would compose and shoot the image, I stopped using a light meter many years ago, as I was as accurate as my Lunapro would say for a certain scene.

Retired, I was given a DSLR 35 mm size Nikon for a Christmas present, with 2 lenses. It was a bundle.

So here are some GRIPES:

1: After so many years of shooting film, I knew which film to grab for what occasion, and what ASA would work the best for that situation. DSLR camera makers should have given the owners of these cameras, a set of film types, to choose from, and the camera would mimic the results of those types of film. So If I wanted to use a Fuj1 400, I could choose that in a menu, and the camera would act as if I had Fuji 400 in the camera.

2: I have a lot of very good camera equipment, that is now like the old toys in Toy Story, that FM2 is a wonderful camera, and Nikon should have made it possible for owners of their cameras, to send them in to be retrofitted with DSLR innards.

3: Feeling stupid, because the instruction are printed for someone that can read and follow instructions. I cannot, I am a visual learner, I learn by watching, and by doing. My camera has charts and graphs and histograms??????
I would just like to not feel so stupid, and be able to create those great pictures that I did with my film cameras.

4: Using this Nikon DSLR it almost like a chore, the ASA is off the wall, and I try to think what can this camera do for me, I know there are great possibilities, but 1/2 the time, I cannot find the right setting is in in Wrenches, or the Camera body?

5: I believe if a camera company, made the adjustments, that I have stated, being able to mimic film, by choosing the type of film in a menu, VPS, Tri-X, Kodacolor, Fuji 200, etc. I think that would go a long way to help older film camera users be able to accomplish getting the most out of their cameras.
Feel free to add to this GRIPE, if you feel the sa... (show quote)


I feel for you, remember doing a lot of what you say at the start...
but...
I like the new stuff, auto focus= more quick shots
auto exposure= more close to the right in tricky situations and more not forgetting to set before shooting, and I do auto bracket a lot to cover myself
I do miss Agfa Chrome, AgfaColor and Sakura Color and sometimes KodaColor, but I can do that in Post Process
I DO NOT MISS, hours in the darkroom, the hours of cleanup, the stains, the isolation, now I can multi-task, process my pictures and watch TV at the same time, talk to the wife, even show the grandkids how I do it.

No I like the new stuff!

Reply
Mar 4, 2018 09:18:39   #
rehess Loc: South Bend, Indiana, USA
 
abstractist72 wrote:
Feel free to add to this GRIPE, if you feel the same way I do.

I started taking photographs 57 years ago with a Zeiss Ikon rangefinder 35 mm film camera.

I developed my own film and printed black and white photos for around 15 years, having moved to a few better cameras in the process.

1st upgrade was a Honeywell Pentax SLR with 35 mm, 55 mm and 135 mm lenses.

Later to a Nikon FM2 with 28 mm, 55 mm, 135 mm, and 200 mm.

Using every conceivable type of film possible.

I did portraiture, weddings, anniversary parties, Nature, you name it I just about photographed it.

This was all a hobby for me, I was only a professionally employed photographer for about 2 months, long story (won't go into that).

My GRIPE is what the camera companies did and did not do, and there missed opportunities when they developed DSLR cameras.

Now I would like to say, my camera bag had many varieties of film always ready for any occasion.

And when I would compose and shoot the image, I stopped using a light meter many years ago, as I was as accurate as my Lunapro would say for a certain scene.

Retired, I was given a DSLR 35 mm size Nikon for a Christmas present, with 2 lenses. It was a bundle.

So here are some GRIPES:

1: After so many years of shooting film, I knew which film to grab for what occasion, and what ASA would work the best for that situation. DSLR camera makers should have given the owners of these cameras, a set of film types, to choose from, and the camera would mimic the results of those types of film. So If I wanted to use a Fuj1 400, I could choose that in a menu, and the camera would act as if I had Fuji 400 in the camera.

2: I have a lot of very good camera equipment, that is now like the old toys in Toy Story, that FM2 is a wonderful camera, and Nikon should have made it possible for owners of their cameras, to send them in to be retrofitted with DSLR innards.

3: Feeling stupid, because the instruction are printed for someone that can read and follow instructions. I cannot, I am a visual learner, I learn by watching, and by doing. My camera has charts and graphs and histograms??????
I would just like to not feel so stupid, and be able to create those great pictures that I did with my film cameras.

4: Using this Nikon DSLR it almost like a chore, the ASA is off the wall, and I try to think what can this camera do for me, I know there are great possibilities, but 1/2 the time, I cannot find the right setting is in in Wrenches, or the Camera body?

5: I believe if a camera company, made the adjustments, that I have stated, being able to mimic film, by choosing the type of film in a menu, VPS, Tri-X, Kodacolor, Fuji 200, etc. I think that would go a long way to help older film camera users be able to accomplish getting the most out of their cameras.
Feel free to add to this GRIPE, if you feel the sa... (show quote)

I began with a Kodak box camera 62 years ago. I got my first adjustable camera, a Yashica rangefinder camera, 48 years ago. I don't miss film and its idiosyncracies. I don't miss manual. I love most automatic function.

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Mar 4, 2018 09:23:39   #
DMGill Loc: Colorado
 
I feel your pain. I take my Nikon F, Ftn, and F2 our once a year, admire them and put them away. My LunaPro is in the camera case with the Nikons but the Weston Master II is elsewhere. I still have my stainless Steel tanks for film development, and two enlargers (with Schneider Componon lenses). I’m waiting for the Smithsonian to contact me to acquire this equipment for a display. ;-)

Seriously, the basic adjustment to digital is simple. ISO = ASA. Digital exposures are similar to exposing slide film. You can adjust for any color balance you want in Lightroom. Go forth and have fun! If you want to dig deeper, get Steve Perry’s books and watch his videos. He’s got a great sense of humor, is a good communicator and is correct on all subjects where he doesn’t disagree with my notions. ;-)

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Mar 4, 2018 09:35:26   #
gvarner Loc: Central Oregon Coast
 
Put it on Auto and fire way. But then you'll have to figure out how to get those little pictures you see on the back of the camera to a bigger screen, and that's hard too. Do you see the pictures on the back of your camera? I'm being a bit facetious here but then your rant is a bit off the wall too.

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Mar 4, 2018 10:05:47   #
dixiebeachboy
 
Well I'm an old time photographer 45 years in the business and I had the same ability with my film camera that you described with the digital cameras They did put in all those circumstances that you would want to dial to, accept they put it in the computer it's called full automatic. Until you have the time or desire to do like you did with your 35 mm and find out what your equipment can do on each setting available to you then use automatic point and shoot you still have to know your composition. You'll be surprised how much of your experience you can recognize in that automatic setting I know that those little computers will out think me every time course I'm just trying to capture what I see. Good luck

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Mar 4, 2018 10:09:31   #
lamiaceae Loc: San Luis Obispo County, CA
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
Should the car manufactures have left the engine cranks on the front of cars?
Should the internet providers still provide a squawk whenever you connect to a website so it sounds like dial-up?
Should you be forced to visit physical stores to buy your MP3 music?
Should you be forced to open your front door each morning to see if UHH has been delivered yet?
Should a large multinational company design their products to the limited understanding of a single customer?

If you want to shoot film, nothing is stopping you. Buy it. Load it. Shoot it. Develop it. Hope maybe 1 of 36 is anything worth keeping after the $20 investment. You may not be able to buy film at the gas station / everywhere like not too long ago and getting it developed also takes some effort based on where you live. But, high-quality film and places to get it developed and scanned are plenty if you don't do it yourself.

DSLRs have been widely available since 2001. You seem to be coming to the game a bit late with ideas about how they should be designed ... Maybe some training and practice is needed to see the wonders and opportunities they provide.
Should the car manufactures have left the engine c... (show quote)


Here is one retro thing that is done. Some artists (music recordists and producers) actually put "crackle and pop" tracks into their digital recordings and CDs to make them sound more like vintage vinyl recordings.


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Mar 4, 2018 10:27:39   #
lamiaceae Loc: San Luis Obispo County, CA
 
Also it was thought of before to put a digital insert into the film space of a camera to convert it to digital use. Sounds like it worked horribly so it was dropped immediately and the price made no sense compared to a real digital camera. Why have a Nikon FM2 and Nikkor lens producing digital images with quality less than a 1920 Brownie. 1.4 MP image? Get real. Only viability here would be for an insert or back for a film View Camera to digital.

Many low-end to mid-level digital cameras have styles of built-in presets for emulating film looks.

You can emulate film looks with Photoshop and other PP with various filters.

I might like a Kodachrome or Agfachrome look, but why would I want my photos to look crappy like Ektachrome to begin with.

One can add "grain" to an image with PP to make it look like Plus-X or Tri-X. You can even use layer masks of actual images of film grain.

I still like all my cameras, film and digital. Only wish I could afford medium format digital and film. Always wanted a Rolleiflex TLR.

I too at one time was able to shoot B&W film outdoors with no meter just using my mind, memory and vision of light. I felt like I was doing Zen photography. I'd lake the batteries out of a camera and just go outside and shoot. But for critical color exposures I'd use my Luna-Pro or a Spot Meter.

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Mar 4, 2018 10:30:54   #
Steamboat
 
abstractist72 wrote:
Feel free to add to this GRIPE, if you feel the same way I do.

I started taking photographs 57 years ago with a Zeiss Ikon rangefinder 35 mm film camera.

I developed my own film and printed black and white photos for around 15 years, having moved to a few better cameras in the process.

1st upgrade was a Honeywell Pentax SLR with 35 mm, 55 mm and 135 mm lenses.

Later to a Nikon FM2 with 28 mm, 55 mm, 135 mm, and 200 mm.

Using every conceivable type of film possible.

I did portraiture, weddings, anniversary parties, Nature, you name it I just about photographed it.

This was all a hobby for me, I was only a professionally employed photographer for about 2 months, long story (won't go into that).

My GRIPE is what the camera companies did and did not do, and there missed opportunities when they developed DSLR cameras.

Now I would like to say, my camera bag had many varieties of film always ready for any occasion.

And when I would compose and shoot the image, I stopped using a light meter many years ago, as I was as accurate as my Lunapro would say for a certain scene.

Retired, I was given a DSLR 35 mm size Nikon for a Christmas present, with 2 lenses. It was a bundle.

So here are some GRIPES:

1: After so many years of shooting film, I knew which film to grab for what occasion, and what ASA would work the best for that situation. DSLR camera makers should have given the owners of these cameras, a set of film types, to choose from, and the camera would mimic the results of those types of film. So If I wanted to use a Fuj1 400, I could choose that in a menu, and the camera would act as if I had Fuji 400 in the camera.

2: I have a lot of very good camera equipment, that is now like the old toys in Toy Story, that FM2 is a wonderful camera, and Nikon should have made it possible for owners of their cameras, to send them in to be retrofitted with DSLR innards.

3: Feeling stupid, because the instruction are printed for someone that can read and follow instructions. I cannot, I am a visual learner, I learn by watching, and by doing. My camera has charts and graphs and histograms??????
I would just like to not feel so stupid, and be able to create those great pictures that I did with my film cameras.

4: Using this Nikon DSLR it almost like a chore, the ASA is off the wall, and I try to think what can this camera do for me, I know there are great possibilities, but 1/2 the time, I cannot find the right setting is in in Wrenches, or the Camera body?

5: I believe if a camera company, made the adjustments, that I have stated, being able to mimic film, by choosing the type of film in a menu, VPS, Tri-X, Kodacolor, Fuji 200, etc. I think that would go a long way to help older film camera users be able to accomplish getting the most out of their cameras.
Feel free to add to this GRIPE, if you feel the sa... (show quote)



You are not alone but it is time to move on.
As for visual learning..... plenty of video learning tool available give them a try.
Ask questions folks here are happy to help.

IMHO coping the qualities of the old films shouldn't be a goal.
Start with a fresh palate and create exactly the qualities you want in Photoshop (or the like).
Yes Photoshop is overwhelming but start by learning only what you used to do in the darkroom.
....its fun and easy with the help of video learning tools.

Don't fight it. Its the future. Its still Photography and its still fun.

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Mar 4, 2018 10:32:04   #
Nikon1201
 
I also shot film for many years with a Pentax MX . I stopped a few years before I retired in 2011. At that time I bought a Nikon , was shocked at the complexity of the digital over my Pentax but after a short time I wouldnt go back . With LR and PS I hardly take a bad photo , if I shoot a underexposed I can easily correct it. My advise is stay with the Model T or upgrade to the Lexus.

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Mar 4, 2018 10:32:53   #
Nikon1201
 
I will be surprised if you get anyone to agree with you.

Reply
 
 
Mar 4, 2018 10:36:17   #
Festus Loc: North Dakota
 
abstractist72 wrote:
Feel free to add to this GRIPE, if you feel the same way I do.

I started taking photographs 57 years ago with a Zeiss Ikon rangefinder 35 mm film camera.

I developed my own film and printed black and white photos for around 15 years, having moved to a few better cameras in the process.

1st upgrade was a Honeywell Pentax SLR with 35 mm, 55 mm and 135 mm lenses.

Later to a Nikon FM2 with 28 mm, 55 mm, 135 mm, and 200 mm.

Using every conceivable type of film possible.

I did portraiture, weddings, anniversary parties, Nature, you name it I just about photographed it.

This was all a hobby for me, I was only a professionally employed photographer for about 2 months, long story (won't go into that).

My GRIPE is what the camera companies did and did not do, and there missed opportunities when they developed DSLR cameras.

Now I would like to say, my camera bag had many varieties of film always ready for any occasion.

And when I would compose and shoot the image, I stopped using a light meter many years ago, as I was as accurate as my Lunapro would say for a certain scene.

Retired, I was given a DSLR 35 mm size Nikon for a Christmas present, with 2 lenses. It was a bundle.

So here are some GRIPES:

1: After so many years of shooting film, I knew which film to grab for what occasion, and what ASA would work the best for that situation. DSLR camera makers should have given the owners of these cameras, a set of film types, to choose from, and the camera would mimic the results of those types of film. So If I wanted to use a Fuj1 400, I could choose that in a menu, and the camera would act as if I had Fuji 400 in the camera.

2: I have a lot of very good camera equipment, that is now like the old toys in Toy Story, that FM2 is a wonderful camera, and Nikon should have made it possible for owners of their cameras, to send them in to be retrofitted with DSLR innards.

3: Feeling stupid, because the instruction are printed for someone that can read and follow instructions. I cannot, I am a visual learner, I learn by watching, and by doing. My camera has charts and graphs and histograms??????
I would just like to not feel so stupid, and be able to create those great pictures that I did with my film cameras.

4: Using this Nikon DSLR it almost like a chore, the ASA is off the wall, and I try to think what can this camera do for me, I know there are great possibilities, but 1/2 the time, I cannot find the right setting is in in Wrenches, or the Camera body?

5: I believe if a camera company, made the adjustments, that I have stated, being able to mimic film, by choosing the type of film in a menu, VPS, Tri-X, Kodacolor, Fuji 200, etc. I think that would go a long way to help older film camera users be able to accomplish getting the most out of their cameras.
Feel free to add to this GRIPE, if you feel the sa... (show quote)


Not one of your "GRIPES" hold water, they are all possible with DSLRs. I'll only take issue with one of the gripes: #3 -- How did you visually learn to use your film cameras (i.e., the Zeiss Ikon rangefinder 35 mm film camera)? 57 years ago was pre-internet, there were no visuals. Unless you had a mentor to watch. There are more videos available today on the internet on the use of DSLRs, that you could spend the rest of your life watching them and never even have the time to shoot a camera.

Reply
Mar 4, 2018 10:38:45   #
BebuLamar
 
therwol wrote:
Aren't we supposed to be helping each other on this forum? Smart ass comments are not helpful to anyone, nor is it helpful to just dismiss someone's genuine concerns over mastering newer technology.


But I do not believe that someone who knows how to use a film SLR very well having problem using a DSLR. What the OP wanted were also unreasonable.

Reply
Mar 4, 2018 10:39:52   #
Brent Rowlett Loc: Atlanta, GA
 
dml wrote:
try pottery or sewing or sky diving.
be happy.


This is so nasty and uncalled for. Hey punk...soon you will gain a few years and pounds and will probably be dismissed at 45. Good Ruck!

Reply
Mar 4, 2018 10:41:32   #
Steamboat
 
Festus wrote:
Not one of your "GRIPES" hold water, they are all possible with DSLRs. I'll only take issue with one of the gripes: #3 -- How did you visually learn to use your film cameras (i.e., the Zeiss Ikon rangefinder 35 mm film camera)? 57 years ago was pre-internet, there were no visuals. Unless you had a mentor to watch. There are more videos available today on the internet on the use of DSLRs, that you could spend the rest of your life watching them and never even have the time to shoot a camera.
Not one of your "GRIPES" hold water, the... (show quote)


Spoken like a man who learns easily from reading.
Not everyone brain is wired the same....videos are wonderful way for some to learn.
Me included ;-)

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