via the lens Loc: Northern California, near Yosemite NP

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via the lens Loc: Northern California, near Yosemite NP

Hi,
I would ignore it for the most part, people are crazy and everyone expects something for nothing. I really liked what someone on here said about Southern insults, which I also need to learn because I am normally so much more direct, so looked up the one I liked best for you: I'd use this..
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"Delivered with the right inflection, they are devastating.

Bless your heart (It always begins with this and could even end there in some cases.)

If your children make it past third grade and do not yet understand that this is the lead-in to some of the most vile insults, they are not going far in life. If you attach some version of this phrase to even the most dreadful of insults, it’s totally fine to say.

Bless his heart, he is dumb as a sack of rocks.

Bless her heart, she has no fashion sense at all.

Adding “cotton-picking” or “pea-picking” to the phrase is typically a double insult.

Bless your cotton-picking heart, you really have no idea how this works, do you?" (This would be appropriate in your case.)

Peterff Loc: O'er The Hills and Far Away, in Themyscira.

But I can spell!

canon Lee

Sounds to me that the OP was just trying to recoup his cost, while trying to provide "free" shots of the players... There are those that try to game the system, not being satisfied with just one free picture of their child.... Some feel so "special" that they live their lives always expecting someone to pay their way.....

Tom G Loc: Atlanta, GA

FIVE STAR REPLY:

Very Good.

Use It, Jaackil... Use It !

Brent Rowlett Loc: Atlanta, GA

From all the back and forth I suspect the post did not do the basics and that is get a model release from the parents of all the children photographed. In which case you had no business photographing the kids from the outset. And you certainly had no business publishing photos of young boys on the internet for download without a release.

Looks like you got lucky making what you did. I would not complain but move on.

Joe Blow

I agree with your answer with the exception of people that want "free" don't understand the concept of copyright.

tdekany Loc: Oregon

Gene, anyone making a comment like that is a narcissistic type. She would never send the op any business. They only care about themselves.

Joe Blow

A model release is really only required if you use the photo for commercial purposes; where the photographer and/or agency makes a profit. Using the model, in this case the hockey player, on a speculation shoot is not commercialization but Fair Use. This is the equivalent of a photographer taking school pictures. The student may, but doesn't have to buy the pictures, but a copy will still make it into the year book where it is shared with everyone.

Here, the photographer shares some low resolution copies with a select group. That is fair use. A high resolution is available to the family for a nominal fee. Again, staying in the fair use range because the photographer is charging for the editing and processing, not the photo. If the player became famous and the photographer sold the images to anyone interested, then that is commercialized and not fair use.

An artist always owns their work. The model owns their image. Both may sell or rent those rights.

Rongnongno Loc: FL

You have two issues with this statement.
1) No business taking photographing... This is not quite right.
2) Model release... Also not quite right.

According to you, no one should take any picture ever since there is no model release. This is simply incorrect. I can take a picture of you and you will have nothing to say about it if you participate in a public event sport or anything else, including you punching me in the face for daring taking a picture of you. (Wait for the lawsuit on that one).

No release is necessary. This is why news outfits sell their prints if anyone wants them.

The real issue is not the price nor taking the kids pictures and selling them or having a model release.

The ONLY issue is posting in an 'open web site'. The reason is not 'model release' there is no need for one but simple privacy and courtesy for the other parents.

I am surprised that no one took any issue from that until now.

As to the sense of 'entitlement' it is a sign of the time. It is not acceptable in any shape or form. Personally i would simply redo the web site to offer a 'closed' section'. And offer access only after a person accepts terms of access that includes the information that everything in there is 'for sale'.

I stick to my initial answer: Give a print with a red stamp (print today) that is big, bold, opaque, in your face that says: 'NOT TO BE REPRODUCED'.

Jaackil Loc: Massachusetts

Great point so true!

Actually not recoup my costs as much as not devalue my work. I have two sons that are still playing one at the college level and one in High School. All of my digital downloads are $15 for team members and their families(the Hockey family discount). Some Have said if I am only charging $15 they can’t be worth much so give them away. I usually sell between 150 and 200 digital downloads per season per team. I usually make about $5000+ per Hockey season for games I am going to anyways. The families are happy because no one else is taking pictures and $15 is pretty cheap. Every year I do a special shoot of just the graduating seniors. They are portrait shots which I give them one 24x36 poster and 3 8x10’s of diffent poses. I give them the prints for free. However I charge the same for the digital download of each one of the poses as I do the game photos. I am pretty happy making $5000+ for my “hobby” as some have called it. I have been commissioned by many of these parents to do their sons senior portraits also which I make a fair amount on. So the other work really covers the cost of these special senior shots. So if I give in and give away one of the portraits to me it is saying they have less value.
While many can scoff at $15 for the digital download being too low I sell a fair amount and I am happier with that model than I was trying to sell prints making $1-$2 per print. Even at $5 a print mark up $15 per digital download is a lot better and less expensive for the parent than trying to get them to spend $20 on a 8x10. The question is really how to tactfully deal with people trying to get an image for free.

Jaackil Loc: Massachusetts

Not sure what law school you went to but you are wrong. The images are shot in a public location. No model releases needed affirmed by the DOJ in many occasions. It does not matter if they are children or not this topic has been covered time and time again in this forum.
Someone else also brought up the issue of commercial use. Commercial use is defined by using to promote or advertise. A photographer can sell the photos however if they are used to promote or advertise a product, service or business that is considered comercial and that would require a model release. As a point of information they are not posted on my website in a public place they are password protected even though I do not have to.

Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)

Totally agree, but at least the photographer has taken the high road and made it possible for her to get a "free" shot - a most reasonable offer. If she chooses to entrench herself in her little world, that's her loss.

Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)

Ignorance can be addressed, stupidity cannot. She is either going to learn or choose to be stupid - and not get her free picture. Her loss.

Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)

Maybe yes, maybe no. Like I said in the first post - I have no idea who this person is or what her temperament is. Or how agreeable she is to reasonable suggestions. Someone suggested a $15 coupon against future work. I've done that in the past and it works well. I have made the coupon transferable, which makes it even better.

Another approach would be to ask her to explain why she feels she is entitled to the file for free . . . When she goes to the dry cleaner, the hairdresser, the mechanic to fix her car - does she make a similar request?