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Why do we still use Portrait format.
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Jan 3, 2018 07:10:06   #
lamiaceae Loc: San Luis Obispo County, CA
 
repleo wrote:
That's a terrible insult. I don't deserve that !!!
However, in the spririt of the New Year, I forgive you.



You probably don't. But it seemed to be going that way. Your previous post if I remember correctly did not. It was more normal. LOL HAPPY NEW YEAR!

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Jan 3, 2018 07:19:55   #
dcampbell52 Loc: Clearwater Fl
 
burkphoto wrote:
Ahh, our tax dollars at work...

Compliance is one thing. Creative presentation that complies is still possible.


Not necessarily. The content may have HAD to be presented in a certain way due to legal requirements. Wasn't really enough information in the text to tell about the content of the presentation. As for Portrait vs. Landscape, I prefer portrait for almost everything in my photography. I do horizontal for wide shots, landscape (hence the name of the format) and groups. I to vertical for portraits (hence that name) vertical shots like sail boats, close ups of birds and animals etc. Each has a use. And, I rarely use books on a wide or landscape format.. An 81/2 x 11 page or book would be ungainly to handle... yes maybe it's just what we're used to but I also don't care for magazine format.

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Jan 3, 2018 07:37:57   #
JerryOfAZ
 
I like reading pdf documents in portrait mode. If I need to expand it to fit the screen horizontally, to see better detail or just make the text larger, I can. In landscape mode, I don't have that option - what you see is the best it's going to be. I might see 10 lines before I have to scroll, but in portrait, I might see 20. If the resolution permits, that's preferred.

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Jan 3, 2018 07:38:49   #
llamb Loc: Northeast Ohio
 
burkphoto wrote:
Reading is faster when columns of text are fairly narrow. There are well-established ratios for choosing font size, leading, and column width, based on speed reading tests of thousands of adults and children. Two or three columns on a letter-size page are in the ballpark, with text ranging from 10 to 14 points, depending upon column width.

Reading much of anything on a horizontal screen is difficult. I want a document I can print OR read on screen. I read lots of things on my iPhone. My wife has an iPad and a Kindle. Reading horizontal books, magazines, and reports is awkward; so is reading on a wide screen for most people.

Spreadsheets and data reports are one exceptional class... They lend themselves to horizontal layouts with records in rows, fields in columns if converted from databases.
Reading is faster when columns of text are fairly ... (show quote)


Spot on. As a former print industry professional I agree with you 100%

~Lee

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Jan 3, 2018 08:06:19   #
dragonfist Loc: Stafford, N.Y.
 
I am thinking because if you want to print a typed document it will most likely be printed on 8 1/2 x 11 paper. Much easier I should think if it is prepared on a format that it will be printed on. Just a thought, no actual proof that is the reason.

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Jan 3, 2018 08:18:42   #
home brewer Loc: Fort Wayne, Indiana
 
I have one monitor (20" x 12-1/2") that I can set up for portrait and use it mostly for documents; but occasionally I do have portrait photos that I view on it. It is handy. Both monitors are 20" x 12-1/2" so even in landscape I can see the portrait good enough most times. If all we print at 10"x8" or 11"x 8-1/2" or smaller then twelve inch high is good enough. Finding a good shop that prints the larger photos is difficult.

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Jan 3, 2018 09:13:46   #
fourlocks Loc: Londonderry, NH
 
repleo wrote:
OP here. My question wasn't about portrait orientation in photography, which I understand. It was why do we still adhere to portrait for text documents when so much of the way we view them is on landscape orientation screens. I think portrait is an outdated orientation for most text documents, forms etc.


So you're asking a more philosophical question than why landscape versus portrait photo format. I would bet this is one of those things that became standard when the first books were printed, centuries ago, possibly because of some limitation of the page size, printing press, binding, etc. I've heard another reason for landscape format in photography, is that our eyes are side by side, not one on top of the other, and we're used to seeing in landscape mode. This would seem to be an argument for landscape text but I will admit that having held both format books in my hands, a portrait-printed book is easier to hold and manipulate.

Along similar lines, I always questioned why we still insist on stringing electric, phone and cable wires on creosote-soaked dead trees? Presumably because the first telegraph wires were strung that way and no one ever thought to try anything different...like buried wires. Imagine how much easier photography would be if buried wires were the norm to say nothing of eliminating power outages due to wind, ice and storms.

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Jan 3, 2018 09:44:33   #
repleo Loc: Boston
 
Thanks for the feedback folks. To my surprise, the consensus seems to be that most people are quite happy viewing their digital documents in portrait orientation.

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Jan 3, 2018 10:14:20   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
home brewer wrote:
...Finding a good shop that prints the larger photos is difficult.


Do an Internet search for "Professional Photo Labs" and you'll find many national labs that have wonderful remote order entry systems. COMMUNICATE with them and they'll make sure you get great results.

Many labs can print on photo paper up to 30" wide, and on inkjet paper up to 60" wide. A few print on real metal, and many print on canvas.

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Jan 3, 2018 10:30:30   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
dcampbell52 wrote:
Not necessarily. The content may have HAD to be presented in a certain way due to legal requirements. Wasn't really enough information in the text to tell about the content of the presentation. As for Portrait vs. Landscape, I prefer portrait for almost everything in my photography. I do horizontal for wide shots, landscape (hence the name of the format) and groups. I to vertical for portraits (hence that name) vertical shots like sail boats, close ups of birds and animals etc. Each has a use. And, I rarely use books on a wide or landscape format.. An 81/2 x 11 page or book would be ungainly to handle... yes maybe it's just what we're used to but I also don't care for magazine format.
Not necessarily. The content may have HAD to be p... (show quote)


In the portrait photo lab industry, we never used the terms Portrait and Landscape! We always used the terms, Vertical and Horizontal, because photographers compose some portraits horizontally and some landscapes vertically.

In the yearbook industry, we NEVER used Portrait or Landscape terms unless referring to actual portraits of people, or a style of layout design (more commonly known as skyscraper than landscape).

The idea was not to get locked into stereotyping the orientation with the image content. We frequently printed portraits of cheerleaders posing on the ground horizontally. We frequently printed photos of waterfall landscapes vertically. Group portraits were usually horizontal, but sometimes composed vertically. Separating the image orientation from the content in it avoids confusion.

The whole Portrait and Landscape thing became popular because of early Microsoft Windows print driver terminology... Apple just uses icons to avoid the terminology altogether. Interestingly, their horizontal page orientation uses an icon of a horizontally composed portrait!

Part of the MacOS 10.13.2 Print Driver Dialog
Part of the MacOS 10.13.2 Print Driver Dialog...
(Download)

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Jan 3, 2018 10:45:50   #
repleo Loc: Boston
 
repleo wrote:
Thanks for the feedback folks. To my surprise, the consensus seems to be that most people are quite happy viewing their digital documents in portrait orientation.


OP here.
Thanks for the feedback folks. To my surprise, the consensus seems to be that most people are quite happy viewing their digital documents in portrait orientation. Why then, is there not greater demand for more portrait oriented screens, monitors, TV's etc.

I understand why people don't like to read 11" long lines of text, but as I suggested in my OP, using multi columns on the page can create very readable blocks of text or used to include headings, diagrams, key points etc. This is not a strange concept. Even the Gutenberg Bible was double column.

The whole world is moving towards digital documents. Nearly all business documentation is digital - created and intended to be read on a screen. Businesses push 'paperless' at us all the time. They don't want to send you paper invoices or statements any more. They don't even want paper checks. When was the last time you sat down with pen and paper to write a portrait letter to a loved one? You probably texted or e-mailed instead. The vast majority of tax returns are prepared digitally - although I admit I am one of the pen and paper hold outs.

Viewing portrait documents on landscape screens is like the proverbial square peg in a round hole (or is it round peg in a square hole?)

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Jan 3, 2018 10:52:42   #
repleo Loc: Boston
 
burkphoto wrote:
In the portrait photo lab industry, we never used the terms Portrait and Landscape! We always used the terms, Vertical and Horizontal, because photographers compose some portraits horizontally and some landscapes vertically.

In the yearbook industry, we NEVER used Portrait or Landscape terms unless referring to actual portraits of people, or a style of layout design (more commonly known as skyscraper than landscape).

The idea was not to get locked into stereotyping the orientation with the image content. We frequently printed portraits of cheerleaders posing on the ground horizontally. We frequently printed photos of waterfall landscapes vertically. Group portraits were usually horizontal, but sometimes composed vertically. Separating the image orientation from the content in it avoids confusion.

The whole Portrait and Landscape thing became popular because of early Microsoft Windows print driver terminology... Apple just uses icons to avoid the terminology altogether. Interestingly, their horizontal page orientation uses an icon of a horizontally composed portrait!
In the portrait photo lab industry, we never used ... (show quote)


Bill,
I like the simplicity of your vertical / horizontal terminology. The logic of my argument is much clearer when you say 'vertical documents on horizontal screens'.

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Jan 3, 2018 11:09:11   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
repleo wrote:
OP here.
Thanks for the feedback folks. To my surprise, the consensus seems to be that most people are quite happy viewing their digital documents in portrait orientation. Why then, is there not greater demand for more portrait oriented screens, monitors, TV's etc.

I understand why people don't like to read 11" long lines of text, but as I suggested in my OP, using multi columns on the page can create very readable blocks of text or used to include headings, diagrams, key points etc. This is not a strange concept. Even the Gutenberg Bible was double column.

The whole world is moving towards digital documents. Nearly all business documentation is digital - created and intended to be read on a screen. Businesses push 'paperless' at us all the time. They don't want to send you paper invoices or statements any more. They don't even want paper checks. When was the last time you sat down with pen and paper to write a portrait letter to a loved one? You probably texted or e-mailed instead. The vast majority of tax returns are prepared digitally - although I admit I am one of the pen and paper hold outs.

Viewing portrait documents on landscape screens is like the proverbial square peg in a round hole (or is it round peg in a square hole?)
OP here. br Thanks for the feedback folks. To my ... (show quote)


My 16:9 iMac screen allows viewing two full letter size pages, side by side, without issues... but it also works for HD video content. What more do I need?

It is silly to display most "documents" on a screen that will be viewed from a distance greater than the screen's diagonal dimension. The text is simply not big enough to be readable! (For example, when displaying document text, a 55" HDTV monitor should be viewed from about 55" away, 82" at the most. Beyond about 82" from a 55" screen, most people's visual acuity falls off rapidly.

There are long-established guidelines for developing graphics, illustrations, drawings, etc. for use in visual presentations. The key point is to make everything readable on the back row of the room where it will be presented. Those guidelines also describe how big projection screens must be for that to work. Most presenters don't have a clue about those guidelines, but it would behoove them to do a little research.

When you understand how big a screen must be in a hotel ballroom, and how big text must be on that screen to be readable from the back row, you use very little text on any PowerPoint slide! And you don't even think about displaying text documents on the screen, unless you give everyone in the room a handout of the same information.

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Jan 3, 2018 11:11:19   #
jaymatt Loc: Alexandria, Indiana
 
lesdmd wrote:
Maybe it’s the way I was taught to read, but I find it much easier and faster to scan down the width of a portrait formatted page then to scan across a landscape page. I would guess that the portrait printing convention originated because of the range of human vision without having to turn the head and neck.


Portrait is the standard format for all messaging and letters and official correspondence. Also, text is much easier to read in text format than it is in landscape format because of line length. Therefore, abandoning portrait format would be a very bad idea.

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Jan 3, 2018 11:59:53   #
CaltechNerd Loc: Whittier, CA, USA
 
lesdmd wrote:
Maybe it’s the way I was taught to read, but I find it much easier and faster to scan down the width of a portrait formatted page then to scan across a landscape page. I would guess that the portrait printing convention originated because of the range of human vision without having to turn the head and neck.


I agree, reading in landscape is definitely uncomfortable due to all the head movement.
p.s. My not-super-expensive ASUS monitor will gladly flip to portrait mode and it does let me see more of a page but I usually don't bother.

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