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Learning how to take a portrait using flash and big lens.
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Nov 18, 2017 07:18:30   #
ronz Loc: Florida
 
Always glad to see someone get back into portraiture. Google the Inverse Square Law, you will find by getting the light closer it will be much softer, 12 ft is a long way from subject. The neck shadows can be eliminated with the reflector or a fill light. I think that will get you where you want to be. Have fun....

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Nov 18, 2017 07:36:19   #
Patw28 Loc: PORT JERVIS, NY
 
Davethehiker wrote:
I normally take nature photography. I'm venturing into territory that I normally never travel.


Thanks for looking.


For me, a laugh is a snapshot, a smile is a portrait.

If the subject is not embarrassed by their terth, I will try a couple of shots with the lips parted just enough in a relaxed smile to reveal some white.

But avoid the gumline! 😉

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Nov 18, 2017 08:29:30   #
Rab-Eye Loc: Indiana
 
whwiden wrote:
Maybe a simple set up where you use an on camera flash and soften it by bouncing off the ceiling?


Probably not if he’s shooting with a 600mm lens. The camera/flash would be in the next county.

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Nov 18, 2017 09:03:55   #
allanj Loc: New York City
 
I like the photos, particularly the first one, but understand the comments about lighting. One question -- probably more for my benefit than for Dave's. It appears to me that camera is placed slightly below the subject's face and thus looking up at her. Doesn't this result in making the neck more prominent? Would raising the camera and looking straight at or slightly down at subject result in a flattering picture?

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Nov 18, 2017 10:19:56   #
Davethehiker Loc: South West Pennsylvania
 
allanj wrote:
I like the photos, particularly the first one, but understand the comments about lighting. One question -- probably more for my benefit than for Dave's. It appears to me that camera is placed slightly below the subject's face and thus looking up at her. Doesn't this result in making the neck more prominent? Would raising the camera and looking straight at or slightly down at subject result in a flattering picture?

I'm impressed that you picked up on the fact that the center of the lens in an inch or two below the face. The lens was 28 feet from the subject. I like long necks. There is a lot wrong with this photo but that was not one of the things that bothered me.

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Nov 18, 2017 10:31:08   #
Davethehiker Loc: South West Pennsylvania
 
Rab-Eye wrote:
Probably not if he’s shooting with a 600mm lens. The camera/flash would be in the next county.


I really was using a 600mm f/4 lens! My house is big. The lens is 28 feet from the subject, I just measured the distance.

The lens lives on this side of the house on the tripod. I just spun it around to take the photo of my wife. No cropping was done.

Big lens
Big lens...
(Download)

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Nov 18, 2017 12:24:59   #
rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona
 
Dave, overall I prefer the top photo as a portrait. Though both show a very lovely and personable lady. The two minor, but important missteps are, the neckline of the blouse isn't straight and the right side of the subject's face is blown out. For portraiture, these are important things to consider.
--Bob
Davethehiker wrote:
I normally take nature photography. I'm venturing into territory that I normally never travel.

Please be brutal and let me know how you would have made it better.

There is a lot going on here. First I'm using a 600mm f/4 lens across the room from her. I have a flash aimed at the left side of her face from about 12 feet away. Just a few feet to her right I have a big Mylar reflector bouncing some of the light the light back on the the right side of her face. We are talking the subjects left and right not the viewers. I have a second flash behind her right shoulder aimed at the back of her head at an angle. I then placed a second flash on the floor in front of her pointing up at 45 degrees at the ceiling. The idea was that I wanted to fill in some hash shadows the other lights were causing.

The subject is my wife. She is no longer a kid, so I used some NIK filters to soften the image and add a bit of glamor glow. There was zero cropping. This is what happens when you use a 600mm lens indoors!

I'd also like to know if you prefer the closed mouth smile or the open mouthed smile.

Thanks for looking.
I normally take nature photography. I'm venturing ... (show quote)

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Nov 18, 2017 13:25:16   #
canon Lee
 
Davethehiker wrote:
I normally take nature photography. I'm venturing into territory that I normally never travel.

Please be brutal and let me know how you would have made it better.

There is a lot going on here. First I'm using a 600mm f/4 lens across the room from her. I have a flash aimed at the left side of her face from about 12 feet away. Just a few feet to her right I have a big Mylar reflector bouncing some of the light the light back on the the right side of her face. We are talking the subjects left and right not the viewers. I have a second flash behind her right shoulder aimed at the back of her head at an angle. I then placed a second flash on the floor in front of her pointing up at 45 degrees at the ceiling. The idea was that I wanted to fill in some hash shadows the other lights were causing.

The subject is my wife. She is no longer a kid, so I used some NIK filters to soften the image and add a bit of glamor glow. There was zero cropping. This is what happens when you use a 600mm lens indoors!

I'd also like to know if you prefer the closed mouth smile or the open mouthed smile.

Thanks for looking.
I normally take nature photography. I'm venturing ... (show quote)


Dave, I would suggest that you never use a rim light on women..

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Nov 18, 2017 13:28:51   #
canon Lee
 
Davethehiker wrote:
Good question. This big lens is a fairly new toy for me. I bought it this Spring. Ever since I bought it It's found a permanent home on a big tripod in my living room. It's there and easy to use.

The other reason is that I have become interested the effects of lens length when taking a portrait. Longer lenses tend to be more flattering to the subject. I wanted to find out if there was a limit to this generality. Apparently not!

This started when, as a lark, when I pointed this big lens at a friend when we were out photographing eagles. I was shocked how nice the photo looked.
Good question. This big lens is a fairly new toy f... (show quote)


using a longer lens has another advantage, in that you can be further away from the subject, making the subject feel more comfortable.

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Nov 18, 2017 13:49:15   #
Pochon53
 
I'm not sure why you use all that equipment. I have been doing 35mm since 1954, and for flash, outside of a Vivitar 283 which many pros used and I used too for a short time, I have been using a Vivitar 2600, which can still can be purchased for about $25 and which I use indoors and outdoors, diffused by the ancient method of one thickness of white handkerchief. I have a friend who used to do weddings and he always used a 90MM lens. I don't know if this helps. My picture choice would be the closed mouth one.

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Nov 18, 2017 13:52:09   #
R.G. Loc: Scotland
 
My suggestion for the smile would be don't tell them how to smile - let them do what's most comfortable for themselves.

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Nov 18, 2017 13:54:57   #
Weddingguy Loc: British Columbia - Canada
 
Davethehiker wrote:
I normally take nature photography. I'm venturing into territory that I normally never travel.

Please be brutal and let me know how you would have made it better.

There is a lot going on here. First I'm using a 600mm f/4 lens across the room from her. I have a flash aimed at the left side of her face from about 12 feet away. Just a few feet to her right I have a big Mylar reflector bouncing some of the light the light back on the the right side of her face. We are talking the subjects left and right not the viewers. I have a second flash behind her right shoulder aimed at the back of her head at an angle. I then placed a second flash on the floor in front of her pointing up at 45 degrees at the ceiling. The idea was that I wanted to fill in some hash shadows the other lights were causing.

The subject is my wife. She is no longer a kid, so I used some NIK filters to soften the image and add a bit of glamor glow. There was zero cropping. This is what happens when you use a 600mm lens indoors!

I'd also like to know if you prefer the closed mouth smile or the open mouthed smile.

Thanks for looking.
I normally take nature photography. I'm venturing ... (show quote)


I think that the problems with your images have been well documented so I will skip that part and just make a suggestion that helped me to learn portrait lighting decades ago, and I still apply the process today. You have far too many lights involved, especially flashes without modeling lights so you could see the expected results before the shot.
To learn the effects of lighting, start with only one light and don't be tempted to add another until you have taken at least 100 images with just the one light. Personally, if I had those beautiful large windows you have, I would be shooting with window light and one reflector until I had mastered the Rembrandt effect . . . just a thought!

Lighting, to look natural, should appear to come from only one source, and because the only real natural source is the sun, it would seem that light coming from below could not ever seem natural.

Hope that helps . . .

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Nov 18, 2017 14:18:48   #
Reinaldokool Loc: San Rafael, CA
 
Davethehiker wrote:
I normally take nature photography. I'm venturing into territory that I normally never travel.

Please be brutal and let me know how you would have made it better.

There is a lot going on here. First I'm using a 600mm f/4 lens across the room from her. I have a flash aimed at the left side of her face from about 12 feet away. Just a few feet to her right I have a big Mylar reflector bouncing some of the light the light back on the the right side of her face. We are talking the subjects left and right not the viewers. I have a second flash behind her right shoulder aimed at the back of her head at an angle. I then placed a second flash on the floor in front of her pointing up at 45 degrees at the ceiling. The idea was that I wanted to fill in some hash shadows the other lights were causing.

The subject is my wife. She is no longer a kid, so I used some NIK filters to soften the image and add a bit of glamor glow. There was zero cropping. This is what happens when you use a 600mm lens indoors!

I'd also like to know if you prefer the closed mouth smile or the open mouthed smile.

Thanks for looking.
I normally take nature photography. I'm venturing ... (show quote)


Pretty good. She looks comfortable. No major problems with the lighting except that the light on her right is way too powerful and really doesn't add anything. I would move it up. Turn it down and fashion a snoot to make it a hair light. That would bring more life to the image.

I don't use the NIK filters. I learned about shooting older women from a pro. He usually made a duplicate layer, turned the transparency way down to about 45% added some gaussian noise to it and then masked out the eyes, nose, mouth, hair, jewelry. That kept the feeling of sharpness, but also softened all the skin. I still do that. It only takes two minutes and works better than any of the addins I've tried.

Your wife is a gorgeous woman who has lost little of her evident vivaciousness with the years. Give her a kiss for me.

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Nov 18, 2017 14:19:59   #
Reinaldokool Loc: San Rafael, CA
 
Weddingguy wrote:
I think that the problems with your images have been well documented so I will skip that part and just make a suggestion that helped me to learn portrait lighting decades ago, and I still apply the process today. You have far too many lights involved, especially flashes without modeling lights so you could see the expected results before the shot.
To learn the effects of lighting, start with only one light and don't be tempted to add another until you have taken at least 100 images with just the one light. Personally, if I had those beautiful large windows you have, I would be shooting with window light and one reflector until I had mastered the Rembrandt effect . . . just a thought!

Lighting, to look natural, should appear to come from only one source, and because the only real natural source is the sun, it would seem that light coming from below could not ever seem natural.

Hope that helps . . .
I think that the problems with your images have be... (show quote)


Excellent suggestions.

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Nov 18, 2017 14:23:10   #
aaciolkowski Loc: Sugar Grove Illinois
 
The background doesn’t bother me the difference in the eyes does. Balancing that would be a great improvement.

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