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Off camera flash or not?
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Sep 1, 2017 23:23:22   #
PixelStan77 Loc: Vermont/Chicago
 
Haydon wrote:
I'm going with Stan on this one. Experimenting at a wedding a new found technique isn't the wisest. Stick with your success and practice your off camera flash on your own time so you will be more prepared next time.


Agree 300 percent.

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Sep 1, 2017 23:23:57   #
fotoman150
 
SharpShooter wrote:
Photoman, like most others i'm gonna recommend that you keep the flash on your camera. You're not shooting formals, you're shooting the crowd or the nuptials. Use eTTL at a 1/2 to a stop or so less and let the flash do it's job!
I shoot some weddings and I usually set up strobes in some corner to take non-candid shots of couples or small groups. But when I rove I never take the flash of the camera. I tried using a bracket, and though the light was better it was useless when I turned my camera to portrait as there was always someone standing in the way of the light. For the same reason I don't bounce! I use a Canon 600 which is tall enough to NEVER give me red-eye which is why on-camera is so bad. I shoot lots. I ALWAYS shoot the little groups that are taking selfies, especially if they're with the bride or groom. They are the close friends that count. Use a zoom so you can shoot very fast. Get the +/- adjusted from the start, you probably wont have time to fiddle with it much once you start. Be aware of your angles and shoot low and high to avoid the snap-shot look
Good luck, it's not rocket science. Get good shots and enjoy yourself. Don't forget the extra batteries for the flash.
SS
Photoman, like most others i'm gonna recommend tha... (show quote)


Thanks I will take your advice into consideration. All the pros on KelbyOne say to get the flash off the camera and use for manual for everything. That's what started all this.

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Sep 1, 2017 23:38:15   #
Peterff Loc: O'er The Hills and Far Away, in Themyscira.
 
fotoman150 wrote:
Thanks I will take your advice into consideration. All the pros on KelbyOne say to get the flash off the camera and use for manual for everything. That's what started all this.


Sure, but you have very little time to practice and get the techniques right. What is your risk tolerance like?

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Sep 1, 2017 23:44:54   #
LoneRangeFinder Loc: Left field
 
fotoman150 wrote:
Thanks I will take your advice into consideration. All the pros on KelbyOne say to get the flash off the camera and use for manual for everything. That's what started all this.


I would do off camera flash with TTL using wireless triggers. Manual flash is fine, if you are thoroughly familiar with lighting ratios and can adjust the units without thinking about it. What you want to avoid is missing shots because you are thinking through something technical or getting unusable shots. Stick with what you know; practice on your own time.

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Sep 2, 2017 00:17:06   #
fotoman150
 
LoneRangeFinder wrote:
I would do off camera flash with TTL using wireless triggers. Manual flash is fine, if you are thoroughly familiar with lighting ratios and can adjust the units without thinking about it. What you want to avoid is missing shots because you are thinking through something technical or getting unusable shots. Stick with what you know; practice on your own time.



That's what I was thinking. Leave the flash in TTL and get it off the camera. Then I can adjust the FEC as needed. ???

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Sep 2, 2017 00:20:07   #
fotoman150
 
Peterff wrote:
Sure, but you have very little time to practice and get the techniques right. What is your risk tolerance like?


Well, that's why the bride is not paying. If I can during the down moments I will experiment but stick with familiar methods for he big stuff.

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Sep 2, 2017 00:38:44   #
SharpShooter Loc: NorCal
 
fotoman150 wrote:
Thanks I will take your advice into consideration. All the pros on KelbyOne say to get the flash off the camera and use for manual for everything. That's what started all this.


That's great but the problem with manual is that the Inverse Square Law comes into effect on EVERY shot, unless they're posed!
You can't adjust the light power on every shot, you won't get any shots!
Yes, on a stand on TTL could work but you said this is a large wedding. That means LOTS of people and very crowded. Unless someone is gonna be walking around with the light for you, it'll be a tough way to shoot.
Gone are the film days where you only shoot 100 shots.
Make sure you have keeping that flash paired to the transmitter down to a science! In the heat of battle is no time to be pulling out the manual.
My personal experience with a flash bender is not very consistent!
It will certainly be interesting. Let us know how it all goes down and best of luck!!!
SS

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Sep 2, 2017 00:48:22   #
Haydon
 
Because conditions are dynamic at weddings, off camera flash has limited use and you have to be as dynamic as the activity is. Again I'd suggest you use what you know works for now and incorporate off camera flash into your workflow WHEN you have gained the experience. Don't miss shots at the wedding. You only get once chance. I concur with SS on this one.

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Sep 2, 2017 00:56:50   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
fotoman150 wrote:
I have a wedding in two days. It is a practice wedding where the bride is not paying.

I have never done off camera manual flash. Always used on camera flash with TTL.

Even though this is a practice weddding it's a big wedding and I want it to look good for both of us.

The flash transmitter is daunting and very confusing. I'm very intimidated by manual off camera flash.

Do I go for it or practice somewhere else first?

Or maybe try it out a little bit and shoot both ways?
I have a wedding in two days. It is a practice wed... (show quote)


I've done weddings with hot shoe mounted flash, bounced off ceilings and walls. I use manual flash, but you can do just fine with a TTL flash and a little chimping until you get your settings dialed in just right. These are from a wedding I did as a second shooter in 2012 with a Nikon D700, 24-70 and a Sunpak 383.

the key to good shots is to never EVER point a flash directly at a subject from the camera's point of view. Use bounce as much as possible. Forget about the tiny soft boxes, Gary Fong things, and even Rogue Flash Benders, unless you use the extra large and are less than 6 ft away from your subjects. The bigger the light source, the softer and more flattering the light will be on the subjects. Definitely practice before you do this for real. Don't ruin the day for the bride and the families involved. If you have any doubt, hook up with a pro who's got a proven track record with weddings and have them do it, with the provision that you assist - so it will be a learning moment for you and the pro will get all the important shots, and the bride will be more than happy - a win win win situation.


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Sep 2, 2017 01:01:58   #
Haydon
 
Gene51 wrote:
I've done weddings with hot shoe mounted flash, bounced off ceilings and walls. I use manual flash, but you can do just fine with a TTL flash and a little chimping until you get your settings dialed in just right. These are from a wedding I did as a second shooter in 2012 with a Nikon D700, 24-70 and a Sunpak 383.

the key to good shots is to never EVER point a flash directly at a subject from the camera's point of view. Use bounce as much as possible. Forget about the tiny soft boxes, Gary Fong things, and even Rogue Flash Benders, unless you use the extra large and are less than 6 ft away from your subjects. The bigger the light source, the softer and more flattering the light will be on the subjects. Definitely practice before you do this for real. Don't ruin the day for the bride and the families involved. If you have any doubt, hook up with a pro who's got a proven track record with weddings and have them do it, with the provision that you assist - so it will be a learning moment for you and the pro will get all the important shots, and the bride will be more than happy - a win win win situation.
I've done weddings with hot shoe mounted flash, bo... (show quote)


Wise words Gene :) Examples like yours always speak volume.

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Sep 2, 2017 01:09:12   #
fotoman150
 
Gene51 wrote:
I've done weddings with hot shoe mounted flash, bounced off ceilings and walls. I use manual flash, but you can do just fine with a TTL flash and a little chimping until you get your settings dialed in just right. These are from a wedding I did as a second shooter in 2012 with a Nikon D700, 24-70 and a Sunpak 383.

the key to good shots is to never EVER point a flash directly at a subject from the camera's point of view. Use bounce as much as possible. Forget about the tiny soft boxes, Gary Fong things, and even Rogue Flash Benders, unless you use the extra large and are less than 6 ft away from your subjects. The bigger the light source, the softer and more flattering the light will be on the subjects. Definitely practice before you do this for real. Don't ruin the day for the bride and the families involved. If you have any doubt, hook up with a pro who's got a proven track record with weddings and have them do it, with the provision that you assist - so it will be a learning moment for you and the pro will get all the important shots, and the bride will be more than happy - a win win win situation.
I've done weddings with hot shoe mounted flash, bo... (show quote)



I'm looking at pics of the venue. www.kressterrace.com and the ceilings may be too high for bounce flash.

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Sep 2, 2017 01:10:29   #
fotoman150
 
SharpShooter wrote:
That's great but the problem with manual is that the Inverse Square Law comes into effect on EVERY shot, unless they're posed!
You can't adjust the light power on every shot, you won't get any shots!
Yes, on a stand on TTL could work but you said this is a large wedding. That means LOTS of people and very crowded. Unless someone is gonna be walking around with the light for you, it'll be a tough way to shoot.
Gone are the film days where you only shoot 100 shots.
Make sure you have keeping that flash paired to the transmitter down to a science! In the heat of battle is no time to be pulling out the manual.
My personal experience with a flash bender is not very consistent!
It will certainly be interesting. Let us know how it all goes down and best of luck!!!
SS
That's great but the problem with manual is that t... (show quote)


I was going to have an assistant hold the flash on a monopod.

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Sep 2, 2017 01:26:45   #
Photocraig
 
I like the Rogue. Practice in private. Get there EARLY tot ake some test shots and get dialed in. Otherwise you'll make the Bride look bad. That's an almost irreversible Straight to HELL sin--if Mom or Aunt or Sisterzilla don't getcha first! The on camera TTL should work with - 1/2 or -1. Place the second on a light stand in the corner pointing to the ceiling our upward into the corner if the walls are white.as Sir Sharpie says.

Good Luck, just think you could be in SW Texas.

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Sep 2, 2017 01:29:12   #
jdubu Loc: San Jose, CA
 
fotoman150 wrote:
I was going to have an assistant hold the flash on a monopod.


Training an assistant to be in the proper place will take time also. And remember your ST3 transmitter and Canon flashes have to have direct line of sight to work. If you have the eye of the flash covered by a light modifier, or your voice activated light stand holds the eye away from you... no flash.

I am assuming that the practice wedding is practice for you, not the bride. It's late now, but practice should mean practice before the event so you have some confidence in your equipment and formulate some plans for using it in various situations. My opinion, even though you are not being paid for this, you do have the responsibility to provide competent results for her just because you took the job.

Get someone in your house to pose for you now, go outside and pretend you are in a high ceiling venue and practice using your equipment with your flash. The things that don't work out now you can try again. At the wedding, not so much.

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Sep 2, 2017 01:47:18   #
jdubu Loc: San Jose, CA
 
fotoman150 wrote:
I'm looking at pics of the venue. www.kressterrace.com and the ceilings may be too high for bounce flash.


From the photos you supplied, They are high, but should work fine for bounce. Avoid bounce that results in raccoon eyes, sometimes you can bounce off a wall behind or to the side to get better soft light.

K.I.S.S. Your assistant could always bounce the flash into an umbrella on a pole or monopod and you don't have to worry about ceilings or walls. Just have the light always be at about 45 degrees angling down to the subjects and 45 degrees relative to your position (this is a simple lighting setup and you can rely on it or tweak as you get more comfortable). If the group is larger, the light comes closer to your position so the light doesn't cast shadows from one person overlapping another.

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