Apaflo Loc: Anchorage, Alaska

You are not seeking justice today, just continueing the injustice of yesterday. Disgusting!

Apaflo Loc: Anchorage, Alaska

They are denied. If the state took your land and did not pay for it, is that a benefit?

dennis2146 Loc: Eastern Idaho

What would you have the government do? Many Indian tribes at their zenith were wanderers. Some stayed in one area. Should we give the entire state of Arizona to the Apache because they roamed Arizona in the 1800's? The government has given hundreds of thousands of acres if not millions to tribal councils. Indians I know receive money from the government for life. I wasn't there at the time but I have heard some Indians tried to stop Westward progress. Should new Americans at that time have simply said, Gee I guess these people own the entire country and just gone home?

I am honestly not trying to be sarcastic but what would you have done? Every Indian and every black person born in America today and for at least the past 50 years has had the OPPORTUNITY to do well. Many, with government assistance have had more than a fair chance.

Personally I am tired of trillions of dollars going to groups of people whose ancestors were not slaughtered or starved or kept as slaves over 100 years ago. Let's not forget too that many Indian tribes bought, sold and took slaves themselves.

Dennis

Apaflo Loc: Anchorage, Alaska

So you want to renage on the treaties because that is now a better deal than paying the bill. That is dishonest. Pay the bill or yes give back the land!

Apaflo Loc: Anchorage, Alaska

Here is a recent example. In the 1940's the US Supreme Court recognized that the Federal government was taking land owned by Alaska Native people and ruled it was legal only if thry paid for it. Nobody paid until oil was found on Inupiat Eskimo land at Prudhoe Bay. The feds were forced to "pay". They paid literally 1 percent of the known value of just Prudhoe, and took 2/3rds of the Native lands in Alaska. They promised health care. It has been funded at 60 percent of need every since.

That is dishonest. It is race discrimimation on a systemic level. It is not ancient history. WE are at fault.

dennis2146 Loc: Eastern Idaho

We have been paying for decades. You are not really answering my questions nor are you looking at it realistically from anybody's point of view. The plains Indians moved all over the place like gypsies. What land do they claim really belongs to them? From sea to shining sea isn't really a valid point is it? Yes the Indians were screwed over with good intentions as well as bad intentions. That is over for now and each one has the opportunity to go to school and excel. I realize that many Indians want to keep the old traditions and that is fine with me but do you really think that ALL of the old traditions will work out for them? Should they just stay in teepees and ride the range killing an occasional deer, brain tanning the leather to make clothes and that is it? Many tribes are monetarily better off than the rest of us with casinos, oil on their land etc. It isn't as if all of them are poor these days. I have driven through some reservation land in WA and have seen brand new vehicles and boats while the house is a rat trap. Is that my fault or anybody's but theirs. If we offer any advice we are told to mind our own business.

The eskimos in AK may have their own problems with the government but I am sure they have lawyers who will be happy to sue the government and/or the oil companies.

Are you really telling us you want to give them all the land from sea to shining sea? Isn't that a little much?

Dennis

Apaflo Loc: Anchorage, Alaska

We stole all the land from sea to sea. We still use the land so why should we not still pay the rent.

Few Indians were nomadic until the European invasion. They absolutely owned and used every bit of their land. Every place had a name and a use. Incidentally their concept of property was and still is about 4000 years more advanced than Western Property Law.

dennis2146 Loc: Eastern Idaho

We shouldn't still pay the rent because the Indians did not, "own", the land. They USED the land. If settlers had not come to America it would still be pretty much the same as it was. I doubt even the Indians would want that. Some tribes were helpful to the settlers. Others were warlike even to other tribes, taking land and slave captives which they bought and sold at will. Why is it that only the white people are guilty when Indians themselves stole from other tribes and would have completely wiped the other tribes off the face of the earth. I wonder if those warlike tribes suffer from the modern Indian guilt like I am supposed to suffer from white guilt. I don't and never will.

Is this something really worth arguing about. There is nothing you or I can do to change anything. Progress is progress and many people don't like it, but it continues and will go on.

Dennis

bull drink water Loc: pontiac mi.

you'd be warlike too if someone came to take your land and killed you if you objected.

bull drink water Loc: pontiac mi.

the eastern and far western Indians were not wanderers they stayed in one place. even when they were friendly we took their land anyway./

bull drink water Loc: pontiac mi.

we screwed over them because we could. not a proud victory.

dennis2146 Loc: Eastern Idaho

Yes, I see your point. But you make it sound as if all white people who came to America were warlike and only wanted to kill Indians and take their land while the Indians were completely innocent and had no violent tendencies toward white people. This one sided dream some of you have just isn't true. Some/many Indians slaughtered white people who were traveling through the land. Indians were not perfect all the time but that is how some of you would have us believe.

Still no explanation from any of you about warlike tribes such as the Sioux who killed and stole from other tribes. Apparently that was acceptable but white people doing it is a bad thing.

Sorry but I am done with this thread. We are not getting anywhere and you are not going to make me feel white guilt. Yes we screwed over the Indians. We also screwed over the Chinese, Irish and many other peoples along the way. For almost all that was over 100 years ago. If you can't let it go then go on fighting about it.

Dennis

dennis2146 Loc: Eastern Idaho

And many of the Eastern Indians were warlike too.

Dennis

Hal81 Loc: Bucks County, Pa.

I went to school with a classmate named Harry Sipe. He was a native American Indian. His father was an high iron worker. He was in our area working in a bridge over the Delaware river. When the job was over he moved on to New York City to work on the tall buildings..

Architect1776 Loc: In my mind

Interesting.