oldtool2 Loc: South Jersey

Yes, it is all subjective. For me, your photos are cropped just a little to tight.

Jim D

Cooper

I don't see this mentioned, so I'll bring it up. When possible, I take multiple shots of a scene and try to get a wide shot and a tight shot. The wide shot gives me more composition-by-cropping opportunity in post.

I read the "rules" of composition and I'm aware of them. I consider things like leading space, negative space, rule of thirds, avoiding half-and-half vertical and horizontal splits, diagonals leading to a corner, and all the other points.

But, at crunch time when doing post, each photo is a unique challenge and I follow the basic rule of "Crop to present the image to its best advantage". Sometimes that means following some or all the rules, and sometimes that means ignoring all of them.

In some of your images, I would crop to either include all of the peripheral people or crop to completely exclude them. Bits and pieces of people on the edge of a photograph should be avoided if possible.

Also, you have to decide if you are presenting a bull rider or presenting a scene that includes the bull rider. The people who aren't on the bull can add to the interest of the image.

johnske Loc: Townsville

Thing is, is that these are clearly ACTION shots and for action shots, anything that draws the eye away from the action or serves to put the action in the background should be ruthlessly cropped out to give a tight crop. And for this purpose there's nothing wrong with a different format crop, such as the square crop like infoGCCT has done above.

General rule of course ... exceptions may be (say) a baseball may have just left the bat - off to one side - and has been caught in mis-air by the camera. This may (or may not) be considered as part of the action and require a wider and less tight crop to include it.

Wahawk Loc: NE IA

With bull-riding, or any other rodeo activity, the other people in the area are PART OF the action, whether they be the pick-up men, the clowns, etc and as long as they face the action could be included without detracting from the photo!!

oldtool2 Loc: South Jersey

So far I have found this thread interesting to say the least. As far as the general rules go they have all been thrown to the wind. Basically what everyone is saying is for me to do what ever I want depending on what I am trying to show with each individual photo.

In most of my photos the extras are cowboys just trying to stay out of the way of the rider. They normally are jumping to the side or climbing the fence to try not to get kicked. They really do not add much to the shot so I try not to include them in most of the photos. If I do this crop it does get tighter.

Those of you that know anything about rodeo know the cowboy’s score for the ride depends on two things. Actually three. First the ride must last eight seconds. Second the bull is scored on how well he kicks and bucks. Third is how well the cowboy rides the bull. If he lasts the required eight seconds his score becomes a combination of numbers two and three.

I guess that is where the story really is. How well he hangs on and how hard the bull tries to get rid of him. Considering that then the tighter crop would probably be the better photo.

Then again, because of the distance these shots were taken from many of them do tell a part of the story. Here is the original of the one photo I posted. It shows the bull being released from the shoot and the gate having just been opened. It is a part of the story. Maybe I shouldn’t crop it at all?

Thanks everyone for your thoughts and opinions. Looks like I have a lot of work ahead of me.

Jim D

oldtool2 Loc: South Jersey

This is something I haden't considered but you have a good point. See the last photo I posted. It shows the opening of the gate and the bull coming out of the shoot.

Jim D

gerhel Loc: Sweden

So I guess we have found the solution. Just use two cameras syncronized on a bracket with different lenses on. :lol:

oldtool2 Loc: South Jersey

Congrats to your family! They have more guts than I have. I do agree the helmets do distract from the sport but I fully understand the reasoning.

I wouldn't want to play football with the old leather helmets either.

I use to ride motorsycles all the time. I remember an add Bell ran, a famous helmet maker, that said if you have a $10.00 head then wear a $10.00 helmet. They had a good point!

Jim D

CAM1017 Loc: Chiloquin, Oregon

I prefer the tighter crop as it eliminates some distractions. The off center framing to show direction looks good. As far as general guide lines for cropping, thats what they are general rules or suggestions. Some times they work, some times not. Judge every photo on its own merits and what pleases you.

westernlifestyles Loc: NV

I am not a professional ....yet. I do, however shoot a lot of rodeo images. I have to say I am impressed with the clarity you achieved, I know how much movement there is to contend with bulls coming out of the gate. My recommendation for image #1 is to crop to the left more, the barrel clown does add to the image. The second image should include the bullfighter on the left also. In both images it is not necessary to include the entire bull, cropping out part of the bull hip may be appropriate and assist you to move to the left of the image to create a balanced result. I would like to know what your settings were for these shots. I'm assuming these were inside shots, you might play with your white balance in your post production program to bring a bit more vitality to your overall color. Good work ! Best wishes WSL

oldtool2 Loc: South Jersey

Thank you for your suggestions,and comment. It is a different take on the subject, something else to think about.

No, this is an outside arena and I was about 90 yards away. I was using a Canon 100-400mm lens on a 7D shooting in aperture priority most of the time. Using ISO-200, f5.6 an SS of 1/640 for the first two shots I posted. It is an evening rodeo so the lighting became a problem as the sun went down forcing me to make changes. Something I am going to have to work on next time.

Jim D

westernlifestyles Loc: NV

Great job getting such good results in a challenging situation. Thanks for sharing. WSL

oldtool2 Loc: South Jersey

So what you are suggesting is something like this?

Jim D

westernlifestyles Loc: NV

It's all a matter of taste of course, but I think this set of images is much more interesting for viewing. Also, purpose has a stand here. If the image was taken for the cowboy to study his form, the first images are more appropriate. If you were going a journalistic approach, this set may be more applicable. I wish I was a better resource for you, I am still learning, please know that these suggestions and $1 will get you a Hershey bar at the 7-11, but I admire your work and your desire to progress and improve. I enjoy rodeo so much, you brought some great action to these shots, happy shooting. WSL

oldtool2 Loc: South Jersey

Thank you for your compliments and suggestions. As for learning, that is something we all are doing. This site brings a lot to the learning aspect of photography. You get so many different ideas at times.

I really enjoyed shooting at the rodeo and will be going back a few times this summer! I never dreamed I would still be doing PP on these photos. Because of the comments here I am going back and looking at the originals again. There are only about 700 to look at again. LOL! I have really changed my aspect and thoughts about cropping these shots. It is going to take me a while to go thru them again.

Thanks everyone for giving me a different view to use when looking at shots like these!

Jim D