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Jan 30, 2017 14:16:40   #
GrandmaG Loc: Flat Rock, MI
 
jerryc41 wrote:
As always, I'll steer you toward reviews and comparisons. I use DSLRs except when I need something small and compact. Then I use my Sony A6000.

Read comparisons and specs, and decide what features are important to you.
(Reviews) https://www.youtube.com/user/TheCameraStoreTV/videos
http://cameras.reviewed.com/
http://camerasize.com/
http://www.imaging-resource.com/IMCOMP/COMPS01.HTM
http://snapsort.com/compare
http://www.dpreview.com/products/compare/cameras?utm_campaign=internal-link&utm_source=mainmenu&utm_medium=text&ref=mainmenu
As always, I'll steer you toward reviews and compa... (show quote)


Right on Jerry. Even though I love my Sony a6000, the DSLR takes better pictures.

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Jan 30, 2017 14:45:50   #
tdekany Loc: Oregon
 
GrandmaG wrote:
Right on Jerry. Even though I love my Sony a6000, the DSLR takes better pictures.


How is that possible? Maybe it is the lens used on the Sony

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Jan 30, 2017 15:29:58   #
n3eg Loc: West coast USA
 
Mirrorless vs. DSLR is the new Canon vs. Nikon.

My new E-M5 II should be here tomorrow. That will be my fourth mirrorless (not counting the Pentax Q10!) and all of them have been excellent performers.

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Jan 30, 2017 15:30:36   #
Lance Pearson Loc: Viriginia
 
Your review of Canon eos M3-5 is off. A simple adapter and any canon lens you have works. the clarity and color of the images taken is superb and the only critique is that it does not focus fast enough for sports action photography like my Nikon D4 which weighs hugely more and costs quite a bit more.

I met a fellow shooting the new Sony full frame leaf shutter non mirror camera who loved the images but said it was even slower to focus than the Canon and that it had a dearth of dedicated lenses.

You can chase perfection all you want but if it were me and money were no object I'd disagree with your analysis and for travel I'd have first the Sony 7 newest full frame then if not that the Canon EOS M5 based on the results I've had with the M3. I've had Panasonic lumix before and found them to be plebian.

With all due respect, I have different views than you do based on actual experience.



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Jan 30, 2017 15:31:11   #
jimmya Loc: Phoenix
 
JamieLM wrote:
Is anyone using a mirrorless camera? If so which one, and what do you love about it. If not and you know about them, please chime in. I don't ask for much do I. I would like this body purchase to be my last for the next few years.


Thanks.

Jamie


I use only one, an old Fuji model from the mid 2000's - a Fuji 9000. It looks lots like a dslr but is actually a point and shoot like today's mirrorless cameras. I believe the 9000 is no longer made by Fuji.

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Jan 30, 2017 15:34:24   #
TMcD Loc: Minneapolis, MN
 
I shoot both DSLR and mirrorless. I had planned to trade my Canon gear on Olympus m4/3 primarily to save on weight and space for motorcycle trips. I spent two years shooting an Olympus EM-5 mk II almost exclusively and have been so pleased with the results that I recently upgraded to the EM-1 mk II. That said, a few months ago I picked up a Canon 5D mk IV and since have been shooting both formats.

They both have advantages and disadvantages. The full frame Canon produces better images, particularly in low light situations. You can use much higher ISO settings and still come away with good images. I also prefer its optical viewfinder to the EVF on the Olympus and I find it easier to change settings and navigate menus, though this may simply be because I have been shooting Canon cameras for over 40 years and the muscle memory is pretty well established.

The Olympus provides quite the savings in weight and space, especially when carrying very long lenses. The Leica/Panasonic 100-400 is a small fraction of the size of a full frame lens with an equivalent field of view (200-800mm). The new EM-1 mk II is super fast at focusing and has very fast burst modes. It also produces excellent images at lower ISO settings.

The good news is that you can hardly lose with all the fantastic cameras available today. As others have said, get out to a camera shop so you can hold the various models and find one that feels natural and comfortable in your hands. Consider what type of photos you will be taking and how often a savings in weight will be of benefit. I agree that mirrorless is the way of the future, but it has a little way to go yet.

Good luck and most importantly, get a camera that you will use as much as possible!

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Jan 30, 2017 15:36:54   #
tfblack Loc: Moraga, CA
 
I too have Panasonic GX8, which is terrific. Made leap of faith in converting from Nikon DX. Glad I did. Also considered Olympus equivalent, which is smaller. Probably every bit as good as GX8, but Panasonic felt better in hand and has OLED viewfinder. Plenty of good mirrorless 4/3 on market, so tire kick thoroughly.

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Jan 30, 2017 15:40:12   #
Lance Pearson Loc: Viriginia
 
I like having the smaller leaf shutter for travel (also on my motorcycle) and the bigger, much more capable full frame Nikon for other uses. Several professionals who shoot canon carry the m3-5 bodies as backups to their full frame canon since with an adapter all the lenses will work. Easier than lugging two big dslrs around. I shot both companies but I have the lenses and am comfortable as I don't carry both at the same time.

I am a big fan of the mirrorless. The M3 I have, Canon, has a magnesium frame I think and feels quite solid.

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Jan 30, 2017 16:33:28   #
timbambam Loc: Manhattan, NY
 
I have an Olympus OM-D 5 Mk2. I have had it about 6 months. I purchased it because my Canon gear was just to heavy. I had surgery on my neck and regular DSLRs really bother my neck. I have used different types of straps but even that caused my neck problems. I also travel quite a bit and carrying the gear through airports also was a problem
I really like this camera. It takes great photos. It has a 16 megapixel sensor but the camera can take a photo using tech that makes a 40 megapixel photo. If you use good lenses the camera takes good photos in low light. Overall I am very happy with my purchase. I still use the DSLR for work though I have started to use the Olympus more as I have learned all the nauseas of the camera. I hope this helps you.

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Jan 30, 2017 17:17:42   #
bsprague Loc: Lacey, WA, USA
 
burkphoto wrote:
After an exhaustive search that took me four years, I bought a Panasonic LUMIX GH4 about 18 months ago.

There are four outstanding mirrorless providers: Fujifilm, Olympus, Panasonic, and Sony. Canon and Nikon are generally behind the others, for various reasons.

Fujifilm uses an APS-C size X-Trans sensor (1.5x crop factor). They have around 20 mostly phenomenal lenses. Their claim to fame is excellent straight-out-of-camera JPEG files that simulate Fujifilm films. Their latest models are excellent, with fine performance, image quality, and very easy to use menus and bodies. They have both rangefinder style and SLR style bodies. MetaBones SpeedBoosters for Fuji are adapters that reduce focal length and improve performance, while adding a full stop or more of effective maximum aperture. So those with lots of dSLR lenses, particularly Canon EF, should look at them.

Olympus and Panasonic share the Micro Four Thirds (Micro 4/3, m43, M4/3) format (2x crop factor). They share the same lens mount, with over 90 native lenses available, and hundreds more that can be adapted (with varying degrees of automation). The native lenses can be 2/3 to 1/4 the weight and bulk of full frame lenses. THAT is what makes the format so appealing. You can stuff a LOT of gear in a small space, which makes travel and nature photography much easier. Lenses are available in a wide array of features and performance, with fast, weather-sealed pro lenses to light, compact travel lenses that work best on the smaller bodies. Voigtlander, Samyang, and Tamron make lenses for M4/3, too. Canon EF lenses can be adapted to Micro 4/3 cameras and retain IS, AF, and auto-aperture control. MetaBones SpeedBoosters for M4/3 are adapters that reduce focal length and improve performance while adding a full stop or more of effective maximum aperture. They are particularly useful for videographers and cinematographers using GH series cameras.

Olympus is known for excellent JPEGs, retro styling, great performance, and in a few models, a mode that makes super high-resolution files from multiple exposures (great for landscapes, products, copying artwork, and other still-life work). They are highly customizable, so the menus can be a bear to navigate. They feature the best IBIS (in-body image stabilization) on the planet, and it works with all lenses. They make a few lenses that have IS in them, and their latest model can use IBIS and lens IS at the same time. They have both rangefinder style and SLR style bodies. The OM-D EM-1 Mark II is their flagship rugged, freeze-proof to -10°C, splash-proof, dust-proof, and fast as a rabbit.

Panasonic is known for excellent raw files, modern styling, great performance, and fantastic video performance. I got the GH4 because I put equal emphasis on stills and video in the work I do (documentation and training). The latest models feature Dual IS (in-body and in-lens stabilizers working in tandem). Panasonic lenses and bodies work together to reduce or eliminate chromatic aberrations. Panasonic has partnered with Leica on a number of their lens designs. Those lenses are outstanding. The Panasonic GH series and some Panasonic lenses are splash-proof and dust-proof. The GH5, due in late March/early April, is freeze-proof to -10°C also. Panasonic makes one notable retro design, the GX8 and GX85. Their G85 and GH5 are really advanced. Panasonic's menus are also extremely well laid-out. Their electronic viewfinders and OLED screens are among the best in class. The G85 and GH4 controls are the easiest to use of any camera I've ever had in my hand, and I've used Canons, Nikons, Pentax, Bronica, Mamiya, Yashica, Beattie, Camerz, Calumet, Hasselblad, and more. Panasonic has worked with a lot of pros over the past few years to help design their flagship.

Sony makes both Full Frame and APS-C mirrorless designs. Their full frame cameras are known for low noise, best low light performance, decent video, and a comparatively few, heavy, and expensive (but excellent!) lenses. Their APS-C cameras are light, excellent performers, too, although the lens weight is still a consideration. The A7 series is full frame, with both high resolution and low light models available. The 6xxx series is APS-C, and the a6500 is their latest. The a6300 is probably the better value. Reviewers tend to score them about the same. Configuring Sony cameras can be a confusing challenge, due to a complicated menu structure. One GREAT feature of the Sony cameras is that most Canon EF series lenses can be adapted to the Sony bodies and retain IS, auto aperture, and slow autofocus (using the correct adapter). MetaBones SpeedBoosters for Sony are adapters that reduce focal length and improve performance, while adding a full stop or more of effective maximum aperture.

Canon's new M5, its third generation mirrorless camera, is getting good, if not great reviews. Canon has been late to the mirrorless game, and has fewer than ten native lenses for their M, M3, and M5 bodies. They do have an adapter for their dSLR lenses, but it has been panned as slow to focus, and inaccurate in its focus. Personally, I'd rather adapt Canon lenses to Fujifilm, Panasonic, or Sony cameras...

Nikon's 1 system has been out for awhile. It is a small, compact, lightweight travel camera that features a CX sensor, about half the size of Micro 4/3. The format has 12 of its own lenses, and an adapter for certain specific Nikkor lenses. I will simply point you elsewhere for commentary on the format, because I've never been a fan. There are some rabid fans out there, however. More power to 'em...

I think you can see that there is something for everyone in the mirrorless camp.

The major complaint about mirrorless from the start was performance. The very latest from Fujifilm, Olympus, Panasonic, and Sony have drastically narrowed the performance gap between high end dSLRs and mirrorless. Electronic viewfinders and processors have improved tremendously in the last few years. That has received plenty of attention. The GH5 will be able to take 6K (18MP) photos at 30 frames per second, at full 4/3 aspect ratio, so you can grab the peak of most any action. It gets faster than that with 4K (8.2MP) photos.

There are many here who pooh-pooh the notion that mirrorless cameras are good for anything. I was once in that crowd — about 2012. No more. My GH4 does what I need done. Most of my work is an even split of video and stills for training documentation, and the vast majority of that is either 1080P video or letter-size documents and PDFs with smaller images in them. Once in a while, I send an image out for a 40x30. I have yet to be disappointed, and I'm picky! Over a decade ago, I set up and ran the digital printing and color correction areas of a large pro lab.

I would encourage anyone interested to go online and watch reviews of all the mirrorless camera lines. Go to http://www.dpreview.com and look up reviews of the various models and their lenses. They arrange their site by brand and date released, so it's easy to view the most recently reviewed models.
After an exhaustive search that took me four years... (show quote)


Well written summary!

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Jan 30, 2017 17:31:27   #
GrandmaG Loc: Flat Rock, MI
 
tdekany wrote:
How is that possible? Maybe it is the lens used on the Sony


I'm sure it is the lens because I mostly use the 24-70/2.8 on the DSLR, although some say you shouldn't use full-frame lenses on crop cameras except for wildlife.

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Jan 30, 2017 17:38:49   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
tfblack wrote:
I too have Panasonic GX8, which is terrific. Made leap of faith in converting from Nikon DX. Glad I did. Also considered Olympus equivalent, which is smaller. Probably every bit as good as GX8, but Panasonic felt better in hand and has OLED viewfinder. Plenty of good mirrorless 4/3 on market, so tire kick thoroughly.


Well, the Oly Pen F is the GX8's main competition. Pen F has mediocre autofocus, but looks cooler and has better film simulations for JPEGs. The GX8 has Dual IS, which uses OIS in the Panasonic lenses along with sensor stabilization in the body for up to five stops of shake reduction. The Pen F has IBIS, which provides up to 5.5 stops shake reduction. IBIS is better at shorter focal lengths, while Dual IS is better at tele focal lengths.

The GX8 has better video, but the Pen F doesn't have shutter shock issues. However, the Pen F tends to be unbalanced with larger zoom lenses mounted, and can be a bit of a pain to use with tripods when using fat-barreled lenses. (The GX85 fixed the shutter shock issue by using a new shutter mechanism.) Pen F menus are arguably harder to decipher... Panasonic has a very straightforward layout.

dpreview.com gave both a Silver Award, and a score of 82. It will be interesting to see what Panasonic does with the GX9, and what Oly does with the Pen F II. Both companies have advanced their latest models way beyond the GX8 and Pen F. Micro 4/3 is maturing quite nicely! The good news is, whatever lenses you get for one brand will fit on the other. You might lose a feature or two, but they'll still make images.

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Jan 30, 2017 17:40:28   #
ccardona
 
Sony A6300 with 35mm lens (much better choice than the 16-55 kit lens) and 55-210mm lens. Switched to this after being a Canon user for many years, but I can still use all of my Canon lenses with the Metabones adapter. Yes, it's $400, and there are cheaper choices, but if you want better compatibility (and faster autofocus) you spend a little more. Main reason for change was weight, and Sony sensor envy! Does a lot of what my Canon does, but the Canon's still a Full Frame sensor, so better low light and better bokeh than the Sony, if that matters to you.

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Jan 30, 2017 17:41:58   #
ccardona
 
BTW, I still use my big Canon 6D, depending, and still love it!

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Jan 30, 2017 17:47:32   #
bsprague Loc: Lacey, WA, USA
 
burkphoto wrote:
Well, the Oly Pen F is the GX8's main competition. Pen F has mediocre autofocus, but looks cooler and has better film simulations for JPEGs. The GX8 has Dual IS, which uses OIS in the Panasonic lenses along with sensor stabilization in the body for up to five stops of shake reduction. The Pen F has IBIS, which provides up to 5.5 stops shake reduction. IBIS is better at shorter focal lengths, while Dual IS is better at tele focal lengths.

The GX8 has better video, but the Pen F doesn't have shutter shock issues. However, the Pen F tends to be unbalanced with larger zoom lenses mounted, and can be a bit of a pain to use with tripods when using fat-barreled lenses. (The GX85 fixed the shutter shock issue by using a new shutter mechanism.) Pen F menus are arguably harder to decipher... Panasonic has a very straightforward layout.

dpreview.com gave both a Silver Award, and a score of 82. It will be interesting to see what Panasonic does with the GX9, and what Oly does with the Pen F II. Both companies have advanced their latest models way beyond the GX8 and Pen F. Micro 4/3 is maturing quite nicely! The good news is, whatever lenses you get for one brand will fit on the other. You might lose a feature or two, but they'll still make images.
Well, the Oly Pen F is the GX8's main competition.... (show quote)


"The GX8 has better video, but the Pen F doesn't have shutter shock issues." I beg your pardon. My GX8 does not have shutter shock issues. If I took the worst lens, the made the worst settings choices, took pictures of test patterns hand held and examined the images at 300%, a tiny bit of fuzziness might be there. I don't know for sure, because doing that is time wasted.

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