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Trying to decide, mirrorless or DSLR
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Jan 1, 2017 06:50:41   #
pecohen Loc: Central Maine
 
Algernon wrote:
I've owned everything from film SLRs, DSLRs, and various point and shoots. I do most of my shooting while traveling, so size is important to me. As soon as Sony offered the NEX series I realized that there was finally a camera that fulfilled my primary needs: large sensor, viewfinder, and small form factor. I just recently upgraded to a Sony A6300 from my NEX-6. Now I have all the basic advantages plus many new wonderful features (mostly new programmable buttons and two memory settings**) that I didn't have on my NEX.

But it is not the right solution for everyone. As jerryc41 mentions, people with large hands might not like the size. But you indicate that's not an issue.

So, try to get hold of the cameras you are considering and see how they feel to you, and see if you like the controls. Some people complain about the Sony menu system, but to me it is like any other new software -- you simply have to get used to a new interface.

Good luck!

** Memory settings are not something that most shooters would prioritize, but for me, I have one that is pre-set for Milky Way photography; and another pre-set for timelapse photography. I'm in heaven. :) Again though, while this is not something that differentiates my Sony from other cameras, it is not a deficiency.
I've owned everything from film SLRs, DSLRs, and v... (show quote)
I use a Sony A6000 and love it. Maybe some day I'll upgrade to an A6300 or an A6500 or something yet to be released, but for now I'll stick with the A6000.

But I have big hands. Years ago I tried to learn to play a mandolin but decided my fingers were simply too big for that job - even playing a steel-string guitar was a challenge so I settled on a classical guitar in large part because of the wider string spacing. That being said, I find no problem at all using the A6000. My suspicion is that in most cases (I do recall once trying to shake hands with someone and not being able to reach around his hand with mine), this problem is an imagined one and it is more of an issue of habit. If you are used to a big camera then the A6000 is apt to feel odd to your hands at first. But that feeling would probably dissipate with a few weeks of using the A6000 and then that old favorite would begin feeling odd.

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Jan 1, 2017 08:37:25   #
johneccles Loc: Leyland UK
 
If you are considering going mirrorless I would having a look at Olympus or Panasonic M43 cameras they both as good as each other.
Some models don't have viewfinders so bear this mind when choosing which one suits you needs.
I have two Olympus cameras, an EM10 and an EPL-5 there are newer models of both but I don't want to upgrade them yet.
I have three lenses, 20mm prime, a 25mm prime and a 14-45 zoom which are Panasonic, my favourite lens is the 20mm f1.7 prime which is very small and produces excellent images even in poor lighting condition.

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Jan 1, 2017 08:39:58   #
Pier23
 
Newbie here, so please forgive any protocol errors in my first post.

I shot professionally for years -newspapers then as part of my wife's and mine comminications consultancy. I always shot Leicas or Nikons - film. My wife went with a Nikom D7000 several years ago and loves it since it so closely (forgive me) mirrors her old film camera.

A couple years ago, I went digital with the Sony A6000. For half the size I have the same sized sensor as my wife's Nikon. And I haven't lost any investment in my old Nikon glass. With an adapter, I can use my old 300 or 500 mm lens, although obviously these don't autofocus.

If you go mirrorless, you NEED an eye-level viewfinder. The screen does not work outside. The Sony kit zoom lenses for the A6000, which range from 16 mm to 220mm (two separate lenses, not one) are adequate but nothing to scream about. But they serve my purposes right now. Sony autofocus lenses are not cheap, and quite limited in what is available.

Shop sensor. Everything else flows from there. IMHO, micro 4/3 is fine for what it is but for me the APS-C was the smallest I was willing to go.

Would have preferred full-size sensor, but cost, lens and body sizes made that option impractible for my purposes.

Enjoy! FUN decision time!

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Jan 1, 2017 08:53:52   #
pithydoug Loc: Catskill Mountains, NY
 
saparoo wrote:
My dilemma-I would like to upgrade my Canon 60D and thinking of going mirrorless. What are the advantages of a mirrorless? I like that they are smaller and lighter. Since my hands are small, I think a mirrorless would fit me better. I've looked at a Sony a6000 and the Canon M3. Any advice?
Thanks and Happy New Year, Sylvia


If you want the latest and greatest technology go mirrorless. Not only are they lighter but the guts compared to the mirrored are changing faster with outstanding quality. The major parts of R&D money are going into the new stuff. Sometimes the decision is hard especially if you have a $$$lens$$ that become obsolete. Quite a few of the heavy hitters in my club are swapping the big iron for smaller and screaming about the better quality and their pictures show it.

FWIW, I'd go mirrorless.

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Jan 1, 2017 08:57:10   #
magpix Loc: St. Michaels, MD
 
Yes, smaller and lighter are their major advantages that made me sell all my Nikon gear for the Fuji X system. The Fuji XT-2 is styled like a DSLR, and its ergonomics, with easy-to-read dials for ISO, shutter speed and exposure compensation make shooting fun again. Aperture is quickly set using the aperture ring on the Fuji lenses. 2-Way tilting LCD is also a big plus. High res EVF is fantastic, and lets you see the exact exposure with histogram before you shoot. A big reason for me choosing Fuji was its selection of very sharp lenses, especially the primes. (Typically, they're also less expensive than the larger, heavier Nikon or Canon glass.) Auto focusing on the new Fuji XT-2 is as fast as my Nikons. Build quality and weather sealing on the camera body and lenses are superb. But I highly suggest you try holding these cameras in your hand before you make a decision. I tried the Sony, and it just didn't feel right. The Fuji fits me like a glove. But above everything else, the quality of the images is impressive, and Fuji's film simulation modes make shooting jpgs a viable alternative to shooting RAW in certain cases. I think the better mirrorless systems (Fuji, Sony and Olympus) have finally caught up to the performance of DSLRs. Good luck. It's a great time to to be buying a new camera!

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Jan 1, 2017 09:00:52   #
Delderby Loc: Derby UK
 
pecohen wrote:
I use a Sony A6000 and love it. Maybe some day I'll upgrade to an A6300 or an A6500 or something yet to be released, but for now I'll stick with the A6000.

But I have big hands. Years ago I tried to learn to play a mandolin but decided my fingers were simply too big for that job - even playing a steel-string guitar was a challenge so I settled on a classical guitar in large part because of the wider string spacing. That being said, I find no problem at all using the A6000. My suspicion is that in most cases (I do recall once trying to shake hands with someone and not being able to reach around his hand with mine), this problem is an imagined one and it is more of an issue of habit. If you are used to a big camera then the A6000 is apt to feel odd to your hands at first. But that feeling would probably dissipate with a few weeks of using the A6000 and then that old favorite would begin feeling odd.
I use a Sony A6000 and love it. Maybe some day I'... (show quote)


I was taught that what is needed for string instruments is "fingers like little hammers" - finger tips curling down on to the frets - vertically (unless barring with the forefinger). You would have had greater problems if you had short fingers, unable to reach across the neck. I understand your "getting used to" theory - that is sound. But - when you are trying to decide what feels best (in a camera store e.g.), surely there is no time for "getting used to". Therefore perhaps small cameras are better for small hands?

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Jan 1, 2017 09:05:41   #
jmizera Loc: Austin Texas
 
tdekany wrote:



I think there is no question about this. The main hold up has been the viewfinder quality. The advantages are many as mentioned here. I do think manufacturers get overly obsessed with just how teeny they can be made, at the cost of ergonomics. Looking at you here Sony. Though it would not necessarily be my first choice at the price point. Panasonic hit a pretty good balance with the GH4. Just big enough to be useable. If I had the money to buy new now, it would hands down be one of the Sony A7s.

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Jan 1, 2017 09:12:52   #
repleo Loc: Boston
 
saparoo wrote:
My dilemma-I would like to upgrade my Canon 60D and thinking of going mirrorless. What are the advantages of a mirrorless? I like that they are smaller and lighter. Since my hands are small, I think a mirrorless would fit me better. I've looked at a Sony a6000 and the Canon M3. Any advice?
Thanks and Happy New Year, Sylvia


You won't go wrong with the A6000. Two recommendations: 1. Get David Busch's guide to the A6000 (available a Nook book) 2. Get the Sony 18-105mm; f/4.0; G Oss lens as your first lens. It may be the only lens you will need. Also, consider getting one of the Canon / Nex smart adapters if you have decent lenses for your 60D.
Happy New Year and enjoy your A6000.

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Jan 1, 2017 09:17:43   #
djlouden Loc: Ocala, Florida
 
I have both the A6000 and now the Canon M5. The Sony has faster focus so for in my comparison.
The M5 has about the equivalent features of the 80D, though it will take me a little while to get used to the M5 menu structure and controls.

If you have many Canon lenses you will be better served by the M5. At the moment they are offering the EF lens adapter free with the camera purchase. Other brand lenses don't work or barely work from my tests.

Neither the Sony nor the M5 will replace my DSLRs. I just don't like the feel of the smaller cameras when trying to do serious shooting, BIF for example. I'll use the mirrorless for times when I'm not specifically on a shoot.

Just my opinions of course. Others will be weighing in with there's.

Happy shooting

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Jan 1, 2017 09:18:25   #
Cdouthitt Loc: Traverse City, MI
 
Just sayin'...it rocks...not cheap, but it checks a lot (if not all) of boxes on what I want in a camera.

http://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-431625-1.html

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Jan 1, 2017 09:32:00   #
tdekany Loc: Oregon
 
Pier23 wrote:
Newbie here, so please forgive any protocol errors in my first post.

I shot professionally for years -newspapers then as part of my wife's and mine comminications consultancy. I always shot Leicas or Nikons - film. My wife went with a Nikom D7000 several years ago and loves it since it so closely (forgive me) mirrors her old film camera.

A couple years ago, I went digital with the Sony A6000. For half the size I have the same sized sensor as my wife's Nikon. And I haven't lost any investment in my old Nikon glass. With an adapter, I can use my old 300 or 500 mm lens, although obviously these don't autofocus.

If you go mirrorless, you NEED an eye-level viewfinder. The screen does not work outside. The Sony kit zoom lenses for the A6000, which range from 16 mm to 220mm (two separate lenses, not one) are adequate but nothing to scream about. But they serve my purposes right now. Sony autofocus lenses are not cheap, and quite limited in what is available.

Shop sensor. Everything else flows from there. IMHO, micro 4/3 is fine for what it is but for me the APS-C was the smallest I was willing to go.

Would have preferred full-size sensor, but cost, lens and body sizes made that option impractible for my purposes.

Enjoy! FUN decision time!
Newbie here, so please forgive any protocol errors... (show quote)


While it may sound like I am defending m4/3, I really am not. We all have our preferences, but if m4/3 is good enough for Pulitzer Prize winning and Nat Geo photographers I think statements like yours is not based on actual personal experiences. But again let me repeat it. You can give me medium format gear and my shots would still suck. There is very little difference in IQ between m4/3 and APSC. Besides that, for most of us amatures, what do we do with them snaps? You will see excellent work with full frame gear, and you will see terrible shots with FF setups. There are also amazing photos taken with m4/3 and there are also no shortages of snaps taken with m4/3. We are most definitely the weak link, never the gear if we are talking about an award winning shot. Enjoy 2017!

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Jan 1, 2017 09:34:53   #
pecohen Loc: Central Maine
 
Delderby wrote:
I was taught that what is needed for string instruments is "fingers like little hammers" - finger tips curling down on to the frets - vertically (unless barring with the forefinger). You would have had greater problems if you had short fingers, unable to reach across the neck. I understand your "getting used to" theory - that is sound. But - when you are trying to decide what feels best (in a camera store e.g.), surely there is no time for "getting used to". Therefore perhaps small cameras are better for small hands?
I was taught that what is needed for string instru... (show quote)

I agree that it is good to try out a camera before you buy. But the criteria should not include something so arbitrary as "does it feel right". If you think this is a requirement then just stick with whatever camera you have - it's probably the only one you will find that feels right.

If you find you cannot push one of the buttons without pressing one of the other ones, then sure that is a good reason to reject it - you cannot just get smaller fingers to use. If you cannot grip the camera to keep it steady or you worry about dropping it that is another good reason to look elsewhere. But a vague feeling that camera just does not feel right is much the same as it not being familiar. With use that will change.

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Jan 1, 2017 09:42:14   #
tdekany Loc: Oregon
 
pecohen wrote:
I agree that it is good to try out a camera before you buy. But the criteria should not include something so arbitrary as "does it feel right". If you think this is a requirement then just stick with whatever camera you have - it's probably the only one you will find that feels right.

If you find you cannot push one of the buttons without pressing one of the other ones, then sure that is a good reason to reject it - you cannot just get smaller fingers to use. If you cannot grip the camera to keep it steady or you worry about dropping it that is another good reason to look elsewhere. But a vague feeling that camera just does not feel right is much the same as it not being familiar. With use that will change.
I agree that it is good to try out a camera before... (show quote)


Imagine if you are a small female - should that person just take your suggestion on getting a huge body that would not only feel uncomfortable, but may also be too heavy. It has to feel right to really enjoy a camera, and I can tell you that also from personal experience. I used to use an Olympus one em5 that is a smallish camera - once I sold it and bought the em1 which is somewhat larger, it fit me like a glove. While it will not improve my snap shots the experience of using it is day and night.

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Jan 1, 2017 09:44:10   #
Cdouthitt Loc: Traverse City, MI
 
Keep in mind, using dslr lenses on a smaller mirrorless body, while a great way to re-use existing lenses and expanding the available lenses in a system, often leads to an unbalanced setup as well as a setup that ends up being almost as equally large as a dslr setup...which IMHO defeats the purpose of going mirrorless. Look for a mirrorless system that has a great variety in native mirrorless glass. Often times native glass will work better/faster than adapted glass.

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Jan 1, 2017 10:13:06   #
Pier23
 
tdekany wrote:
While it may sound like I am defending m4/3, I really am not. We all have our preferences, but if m4/3 is good enough for Pulitzer Prize winning and Nat Geo photographers I think statements like yours is not based on actual personal experiences. But again let me repeat it. You can give me medium format gear and my shots would still suck. There is very little difference in IQ between m4/3 and APSC. Besides that, for most of us amatures, what do we do with them snaps? You will see excellent work with full frame gear, and you will see terrible shots with FF setups. There are also amazing photos taken with m4/3 and there are also no shortages of snaps taken with m4/3. We are most definitely the weak link, never the gear if we are talking about an award winning shot. Enjoy 2017!
While it may sound like I am defending m4/3, I rea... (show quote)


Understood, and I am not ruling out the M4/3 categorically. I admit to a format bias from my film days - the bigger the negative the better the image. But one can't take a 4x5 everywhere and Eisenstadt managed some good snaps with the lowly 35mm.

If the OP's needs run to Facebook posts and other low demand uses, then the world open up. Are wall murals in the future? Then other considerations enter.

Here is another consideration: buy used, one generation old. Savings are huge, the disadvantages of being a generation behind minor, and if you decide you want something different, you have not committed all funds to one new option. Very few used cameras are shot out.

And here is to 2017!

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