ptcanon3ti Loc: NJ

The admins and mods are completely worthless. This place is like the wild west. pathetic.

wapiti Loc: round rock, texas

Ah, ha! The REAL cause surfaces. It's another Nikon/Canon thing.

rbfanman

"Refurbished" means different things at different places. Ask if in doubt. To some, merely wiping dust off an item is a refurbishment. In other places, a refurbishment involves taking a thing apart, replacing worn parts, cleaning inside, and outside, thoroughly, and giving a full "as new" warranty. The best refurbishments are usually "Factory Refurbishments." Nikon techs dismantle, repair, clean, etc, a Nikon Factory Refurbished item. Some individual stores may just factory, or from a store which sends items to the factory for such refurbs. I got my factory refurbished Nikon gear from nikonusa.com, and I have had no problems with it. I saved a lot of money with factory refurbs.

Peterff Loc: O'er The Hills and Far Away, in Themyscira.

Mark, I know that I am a significantly guilty party in this situation, but I mostly agree with you.

What do we do with someone like MT that spreads misinformation periodically and presents that information as fact? Unfortunately these things sometimes cross multiple threads. I have no objection to the information MT has put in this thread, but he sometimes gets things very wrong and yet will not even discuss those things.

How do we address those situations? I've tried being polite and it doesn't even move the needle. The man doesn't seem to want to respond to reasonable questions or to even provide any evidence to support his assertions.

We have seen B&H (Henry and Hershel) and Adorama (Helen) on the receiving end of significant abuse here on UHH and yet they continue to respond in a highly professional manner. If we compare and contrast that with MT's contributions does he meet the same standards?

MT does add significant value, but he does sometimes get things wrong as we all do. If he can't actually deal with those situations in a civil manner then what does that say about the rest of his statements? If he can't deal with things when he really is wrong, then what does that say about his credibility?

For myself, unfortunately, I have lost trust in MT's integrity. I'm totally happy with B&H, Adorama, Amazon (when used carefully), even eBay, but I struggle to do that with MT when he is unwilling to respond.

So, I may be guilty here, but I certainly don't see MT as an innocent victim, just another opinionated person such as myself.

SharpShooter Loc: NorCal

Mark, maybe I can shed a little light on this.
A while ago, I read here but don't remember who said it, that MT has put everyone that has ever challenged the accuracy of his knowledge on his "ignore list" and that Petterff is on that list. If that is true, then many here can't discuss anything with MT via PMs(or others). If that's true it is indeed very cowardly of him since it gives him free reign to say what he wants without giving knowledgeable people any chance to correct his information. That is a great disservice to the people on the Hog that are actually interested in actuall facts.
It has been MT's MO now for many years to attack and insult people for either their choice of camera brand usage, occupation or choice of geographical location. Unfortunately if they ARE on his ignore list, they can't even PM to say, "hey, what the H*LL was that about?". That is indeed cowardly, as those individuals are left to sit there and take his pot-shots after with he always puts tail between legs and runs and won't return to a post. You can bet your bottom dollar he's still reading them. This post is no exception!!
I don't ever participate in MTs posts as they are a pretty basic in nature. I wouldn't doubt it for a second though that I'm on his "ignore list" as well!!! It fits his MO!
I also have no idea why Jerry asked this. Maybe it was prearranged since this question comes up and is explained with much more thoroughness than this quite frequently. All of us that have been here for a while have seen this question a hundred times.
I'm sure we'll never get answers to any of this, but these have been my observations as a long time participant.
SS

Papa j Loc: Cary NC

Pathetic get a life

Peterff Loc: O'er The Hills and Far Away, in Themyscira.

An excellent observation, and MT's information in this thread seems good enough by my level of knowledge. Unfortunately PM's aren't available to those of use that he has put on his ignore list, so there is no way of commenting except in a thread that he does not initiate himself.

When MT is in fact spreading misinformation the question is then how one actually queries that?

I can't send him a PM and take it off line, I can't respond to a thread that he initiates, just to other threads. When I do ask him legitimate questions or respond to his posts with factual information, or even ask him to clarify things he drops out of the conversation except when he leaves an insulting response.

Perhaps we should ask why someone of MT's caliber assumes that he would be attacked? I have no wish to attack him except when he makes demonstrably false statements and allows no other method of response.

If he was willing to stand up in a public scenario we could actually have a civilized conversation that was witnessed by others. He has prevented many of us from doing that. What does that tell you all?

I make no apologies for calling him to task, and the ball is in MT's court to respond.

For the record much of what he contributes is excellent information, but he is sometimes wrong. Don't we need to try and support accurate information on UHH?

Peterff Loc: O'er The Hills and Far Away, in Themyscira.

Thank you Papa j. I have one, perhaps it is just not the same as yours.

Scruffy Loc: North Ridgeville

I have tracked the complete thread, as I try to do daily on UHH. I found OP's question and MT's response both helpful, and I also thought SharpShooter and Peterff"s positions were very useful and mostly valid. I always like Mark's input humorous posts in the Attic; however, I do disagree when the wishes for more oversight by Admin. are desired. I think they do a decent job of tight-rope walking. Maybe Mark was right in suggesting the Attic as more appropriate for this thread, but I think even that is debatable. Happy health and Holidays to All the members, and thank you for improving my basic understanding of photography on a daily basis.

Photo One Loc: Clearwater Florida

I agree with you Jerry. MT Shooter is extremely knowledgeable on Photography, and cameras, lens. I have called him several times when I have questions pertaining to photography.

Kenny

Peterff Loc: O'er The Hills and Far Away, in Themyscira.

'Mostly valid' is one of best compliments I've received recently. It's a bit like 'Mostly Harmless'. Thank you!

markngolf Loc: Bridgewater, NJ

Sharpshooter,
Thanks for the information and background. What I sense are the huge egos at stake. I'm an outsider, yet a subscriber and one who enjoys contributing. Mainly, I see UHH as a resource for learning. No doubt, most others do too. The amount of negativity is minimal and sporadic in comparison to the volumes of positive exchange. Sharpshooter, I always appreciate your point of view and willingness to share your knowledge. Just continue to be that model and let those who chose to live in the "Attic" remain there. They have a choice to continue or allow themselves an opportunity to become positive forces.
Those who allow themselves to be "hooked and baited" can also choose to ignore. I trust I am not speaking out of turn. I really don't know the "players" well.
Mark

n3eg Loc: West coast USA

MT comes from the perspective of "I'm not just a camera shop owner, I'm also a client." He uses the same type of equipment that he sells. I'd trust his advice over that of someone who just sells equipment. I'm the same way about batteries: I work with them, I use them, my place of employment sells and services them. My battery analyzer tells the full story about batteries, not "Oh well, I done bought a Wazoo brand battry and it takes 10 times more pitchers than tha OEM battry." If MT says the D810 is the sharpest camera out there, I believe him.

lamiaceae Loc: San Luis Obispo County, CA

Perhaps we should petition Admin to change the criteria for the "Ignore" tool. Perhaps only Admin can place anyone on any restricted list after investigating and finding (nearly legally) actionable verbal written abuse or threats, h**e, anger or profanity that distracts from the entire experience of participation on the UHH. Many UHH members seem to just have thin skins, or can't take a joke, or even constructive criticism. We mainly don't want personal attacks. Opinions are just that opinions. I'm on two ignore list and only one of them do I have an idea why. The other I'd like to discuss with the other person since I now have created "non-standard" images not totally unlike his. If anything now he can feel I was a hypocrite instead of someone who just was not crazy about his images at that time. I've been applying Topaz and Nik filters to images to create "paintings" too now.

lamiaceae Loc: San Luis Obispo County, CA

Exactly. ...At least equal to the Pentax K-1.