White balance ? What is correct WB? (Page 2): Wow, thank you very much Burkphoto I shall read your post several times. It's seems you have some deep understanding about light, and I'll...

catalint Loc: oslo

burkphoto wrote:

You have a lot of questions and "what ifs", here.

Wow, thank you very much Burkphoto
I shall read your post several times. It's seems you have some deep understanding about light, and I'll have to not just thank you for it, but also understand it. This is a new learning for me. The HMI Stadium/Stage lights is something I did not read about before, and I shall make me a note in my photo bag with this and try to put it in practice as well.

C.

TheStarvingArtist

In photoshop click on Image, Adjustments, Curves. There are 3 eyedroppers. Use the black eye dropper and click on something black, then use the white eye dropper and click on something white, then use the gray eye dropper and click on something gray.

You might try using something like this
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/768395-REG/WhiBal_WB7_PC_G7_White_Balance_Pocket.html

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/429982-REG/Photovision_DT14010_14_Pocket_One_Shot.html

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/465286-REG/X_Rite_MSCCC_Original_ColorChecker_Card.html

catalint Loc: oslo

TheStarvingArtist wrote:

In photoshop click on Image, Adjustments, Curves. There are 3 eyedroppers. Use the black eye dropper and click on something black, then use the white eye dropper and click on something white, then use the gray eye dropper and click on something gray.

Thank you for your tip and the links. I think I have to swallow my words now, cause I know I said it once "I dont need those charts". And now I see they are good to have.

burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC

catalint wrote:

Wow, thank you very much Burkphoto
I shall read your post several times. It's seems you have some deep understanding about light, and I'll have to not just thank you for it, but also understand it. This is a new learning for me. The HMI Stadium/Stage lights is something I did not read about before, and I shall make me a note in my photo bag with this and try to put it in practice as well.

C.

You're welcome. I have dealt with these issues as a photographer, as a pro photo lab manager responsible for film scanning and color correction and digital printing, and as a photography trainer for many years.

I credit my background in slide photography for most of my understanding. From 1979 to 1987, I wrote, narrated, programmed, and produced large, corporate multi-image slide shows, and did or supervised most of the photography for them. It was totally unforgiving work... You had to nail exposure and color balance at the camera, much as you do for JPEG capture. That meant controlling light, filtering light, adding better light sources... After all, it all starts with LIGHT.

Because our eyes have the best "auto white balance" on the planet, we don't think about white balance, until we try to do photography.

wmurnahan Loc: Bloomington IN

catalint wrote:

What gotta me thinking about this is the fact that... (show quote)

I agree about the auto wb looking more color correct and prefer the auto to the as shot.

trc Loc: Logan, OH

catalint wrote:

Hi my fellow hogs, br Once again I turn to your w... (show quote)

Catalin,

Open LR and click on the Develop Tab at the top of the window. Then look at the temp. slider and just click on the grey area at the right end of the slider where the zero is. Next, when highlighted, just click on your up arrow key (gets warmer) on your keyboard to increase the number where the zero was or the down arrow key (gets cooler) to decrease the number where the zero was. That will change the value of your present temperature in increments of '1' where the camera was when you snapped the shutter.

You can also place your cursor over the '0,' and while holding down the left mouse button, move it right (warmer) or left (cooler). You can then make your image WB that is on your screen just the way you prefer and however much you like. Play to your hearts content until you like what you see on your screen. This is a quick way to make WB changes and see what your image looks like and how it has changed. Good luck.

Best Regards,
Tom

Rongnongno Loc: FL

burkphoto wrote:

.../...Because our eyes have the best "auto white balance" on the planet.../...

Never mind that aging changes the way we 'see' color, that our vision is closely tied to our health and that taste is more important than anything else...

We have the 'clinical' WB that we try to achieve with all the gizmos you describe and for a few scientific instruments but in the end, this is not what counts... The viewer taste. This last negates every effort made toward 'personal perfection'.

Light is more subjective in photography than anything else, even composition or subject matter. This is also true for B&W where there is no color.

If there was an 'universal' agreement as to a 'good' WB was there never would be threads like this one.

catalint Loc: oslo

trc wrote:

Catalin, br br Open LR and click on the Develop T... (show quote)

Thank you for the tip Tom. Been playing around with exactly that today and I've managed to get to some more preferable results :)

Cheers
C.

burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC

Rongnongno wrote:

Never mind that aging changes the way we 'see' col... (show quote)

If we had thrown our hands up and run our lab with this attitude, we would have never lasted a year in business.

Sorry, but without standards, you're just pissing in the fan! If you can approach duplication of reality, you can reliably repeat the creative offsets you like.

Of course, you can always wander off in the weeds and CALL it creativity...

Rongnongno Loc: FL

burkphoto wrote:

If we had thrown our hands up and run our lab with this attitude, we would have never lasted a year in business.

Sorry, but without standards, you're just pissing in the fan! If you can approach duplication of reality, you can reliably repeat the creative offsets you like.

Of course, you can always wander off in the weeds and CALL it creativity...

Your answer does not address the issues I levee.

Clinical color balance is achievable. Have you ever been in a clinic? Cold, soulless, same as color.

Color balance is about perception, feelings, appreciation.

None of what you said is wrong, far from it. It just does not take into account the human factor.

I calibrate everything on my end yet my bias shows in the end. When I was dealing with my lab in Detroit each professional photographer they had as client had an individual profile for their shooting style, subject and taste. THAT made them pro if nothing else.

burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC

Rongnongno wrote:

Your answer does not address the issues I levee. b... (show quote)

Half our lab worked that same way... we had numerical offsets for each client. The other half did school portrait processing for hundreds of photographers using the same advertising posters and flyers. Our system made it possible to have neutral (far from cold!) color balance across the country. The product was as advertised...

I don't begrudge anyone for taking artistic license. I just think it helps to have a notion of control.

Rongnongno Loc: FL

burkphoto wrote:

Half our lab worked that same way... we had numerical offsets for each client. The other half did school portrait processing for hundreds of photographers using the same advertising posters and flyers. Our system made it possible to have neutral (far from cold!) color balance across the country. The product was as advertised...

I don't begrudge anyone for taking artistic license. I just think it helps to have a notion of control.

err when I say 'cold' I did not blue... Just cold as a cold stare, a cold shoulder, a cold...

Beagleman Loc: Indiana

It's personal preference in most cases, and knowing your camera. Personally, I like the warmer rendering, but I know that it is not true reality.

--Beagleman

JCam Loc: MD Eastern Shore

catalint wrote:

Hi my fellow hogs, br Once again I turn to your w... (show quote)

I like the two warmer versions better. but I'd suggest that Auto is a good place to start unless you are in an area with very different lighting--florescent, artificial daylight, etc. As you showed us and yourself, WB can almost always be corrected in Post Processing, if YOU think it is necessary. Always having it set for Auto also avoids the problem of having to make a major editing because you forgot to change the setting for a new condition.

There is one more adjustment you have to make on the last two pictures: get rid of the dark shadow on her left cheek and under the jawbone on the left side. I think that would make the model--professional model, wife or daughter--much happier with the end product!

fourlocks Loc: Londonderry, NH

I've always been taught that white balance is largely a matter of taste...if it looks good to the viewer, then the setting was correct. To me, the white balance issue can become a rather philosophical discussion on the nature of reality and it begs the question "What is reality?" Is it what we see or what the camera produces? When we look at fall foliage under grey skies, we see the vivid reds, yellows and oranges yet when we take a picture, the colors are subdued. Why? Because our mind interprets what the eye sees based on past experience and it "processes" the image to match our expectations. To make what the camera captures match what we (think we) saw when we took the picture, we set the camera's white balance to a "cloudy" setting and the camera automatically increases the red end of the spectrum in the resulting image...just as our brain did. So my question is, is the image our mind reveals reality? Is what the camera captures reality? I say neither are and in fact we never actually "see" reality but rather an image processed by our brain (or the camera). My point is that whether using chemical film, digital capture or our eyes, the resulting image has undergone some form of processing/interpretation and we can never be absolutely certain what the subject actually looks like. So...pick the white balance that provides an image that looks the most flattering to the subject or what the viewer likes and go with it.