selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA

In READ ME FIRST
The word "fun" appears twice, "serious" is not mentioned.

When something is posted in jest and a reader takes it seriously, I am reminded of the warden in Cool Hand Luke who said, "What we have here is a failure to communicate."

FYC is neither the Critique nor the Post Processing section. A post here is not automatically a request for a critique or for suggestions on how to improve an image. Sometimes it's just for fun.

Lighten up, folks. If you don't "get" the OP's intent, taking a post too seriously might make you look like you have no sense of humor.

minniev Loc: MIssissippi

You are correct that FYC is far more than a Critique section, even though critique can and often does take place here. Many image posts here are part of discussions or learning efforts. Those who agonize because image feedback here is not consistently harsh or negative enough have missed the boat on that point. Plenty of fun is readily available.

What FYC is not, however, is a two man comedy show run for the benefit of two members at the expense of all others. The spoof posts are designed to do just that: to entertain the two (or three?) amigos by making fun of a specific member or of everyone who isn't them. The Green Bridge is more obscure than most of the spoof posts. The OP has of course insisted that the Green Bridge was quite a serious post, designed to elicit sensible, intelligent discussion that was simply above the heads of the regular membership here. That kind of comment does not breed a sense of shared humor but of something else.

Even though I "get" their intent, I object to their abusive style. Hiding mean-ness under the guise of honesty or humor is in itself dishonest, and it isn't funny. A laugh among friends is good for everyone. But there is a difference between laughing "with" and laughing "at". One is about shared community and relationships that allow folks to laugh together. The other is simply elitism dressed up in other clothes.

Frank2013 Loc: San Antonio, TX. & Milwaukee, WI.

Well stated.

selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA

I don't think that FYC was intended to be anything other than what was defined at the outset, "This is where we have honest, respectful and open, conversations about art, in all its forms, with an emphasis on photography."

Other than the call for "respectful and open conversations" I don't see a problem with humor, even when it is subtly aimed at some recognizable compulsive posters. It would be better for the aggrieved party to remain silent than to expose themselves by reacting. When a humorous statement falls flat, the less said the better.

The ratio of views to posts within a thread here ranges from about 10:1 to 20:1. That means that there are many more people looking at the posts and deciding not to respond. Who is to say how these silent viewers feel about the progress of the thread? To disparage or put down the poster or the post on any grounds is itself an exercise in elitism.

Free will also calls for self control. We are free to ignore a poster or a specific post and make no comment. But, once we engage with them, we should keep it a congenial conversation.

pfrancke Loc: cold Maine

Much good general advise here. Only a couple of points that I wish to make..

If the fun that is being had is at someone else's expense, then all bets are off.

About silent viewers and what they may feel. Only the silent viewers know what they feel. Only they can answer how they feel. There are many threads without any kind of contention that also have many views - many silent views. The only thing silence means in such an instance is that someone looked and chose not to comment. But I tend to agree that feeding a troll (if that is the situation I think you are describing) is not always a good idea.

"This is where we have honest, respectful and open, conversations about art, in all its forms, with an emphasis on photography." seems to say it all.

edit -- but what specifically are we discussing? I would hate to assume that I know.
2nd edit -- if someone is NOT here to have honest, respectful and open, conversations and they are in fact here to be destructive to the group, then it would be much improved if such a person either changed their ways, or just stopped posting here.

tdekany Loc: Oregon

I am not sure if we read the same initial post from rosebud, but based on my limited understanding of the English language, it was neither honest, respectful, nor open. Maybe you can explain it to us. And don't forget that this is the same guy who claims that every picture he had for sale made millions of dollars. Every single one made millions.

What we are dealing with here is a person who was born without a conscience

selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA

You were one of the those who responded to the thread in the spirit in which it was presented, an entertaining send-up of sorts with no serious intent to deceive anyone. In fact, most people responded briefly and in good humor.

An objective review of the thread (now locked) shows that there was only one individual who took the whole thing seriously. If you remove his posts and the OP's responses to them you would be hard pressed to find anything amiss. It was simply a case where remaining silent would have been a better choice.

selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA

I don't a clue what you are talking about. Maybe you should not explain it here. Send me a PM.

jenny Loc: in hiding:)

* * * * *
Righto Scotty, and it's interesting that right after your comment, Linda or minniev wants to "correct" you. In no other section of this entire
site has anyone been here other than by his/her own free will, and every time there's a complainer, that person is free to leave!!!

We all have our special photographic interests, and more especially enjoy those who share ours, but the stifling petty attitudes we have
been subjected to defining individually "nice" vs "mean", have at times threatened to send this whole section to ruin. Since when in a forum,
or in life itself, have so many complained so much about so little as to trash the whole idea that humor is not welcome anywhere among friends?

Linda doesn't need to worry about her friends, they already left for another sub-forum where people are "nicer", and with all the preaching
about what a few people think "nice" is, I'm sure they will be welcome where there is no open forum. Only then may she, and any other
like-minded folks, be willing to let someone else there determine what is "nice", or "cruel truth" acceptable, regardless of individual
definitions of "correct".

That truth and honesty have to be qualified, debated, examined, and finally sacrificed to satisfy a few overly sensitive little minds is no
position to try to force on everyone else in an open forum.
Having been determined to keep away from this place until the controversies were settled, one might note that so often the basic issues
were never actually discussed! Do you want to be truthful....or a flatterer? Do you know enough to know
what needs help in someone else's picture? If you really don't know, why do you think you have a "right" to tell other people what's wrong
in a critique of their pictures?

If you throw daily snapshots at a sub-forum that was designed to discuss art, why would you expect praise, what are you doing here?
Do you think anyone wants to see every darned casual snapshot mistake you ever made?
Do you think you have to engage in post processing for hours to produce a picture of anything?
And do you really want to AVOID truth and honesty for anything less???

jenny Loc: in hiding:)

Sorry Linda, excuse, but after all you did your share of complaining on this forum.
Minniev, It was YOU who have come out of the closet complaining about another member's activity on this section. I don't
remember any relationship or exchange of conversation at any time between you and this individual who has a very keen
sense of humor....which you might have appreciated had you taken the time to be more familiar with his talents for both
photography and the separate art of pp, (which he never needs to make excellent photographs when he so chooses). But
why should he go to this trouble to cast his pearls among peasants and trolls? and just what "bad bug" bit you minniev,
that you go so far out of your way to complain about someone you neither know nor understand? Aaarrgh, it's enough to
give many of the rest of us some creepy feeling that, "maybe minnniev doesn't like me", or the rest of us either. I have news for you
then:
Many of us have silently tolerated other people on any forum without ever complaining behind their back as you have done
here. Many people have patiently tolerated minniev without an unkind word to anyone else, no matter how ubiquitous she
is on this section. And therefore the message remains the same, to you and to anyone else, you can ignore, or you can
just leave!!!

tdekany Loc: Oregon

That goes for you as well.

And are you comparing minniev to WR? Are you serious? All I can do is LOL and shake my head.

tdekany Loc: Oregon

I took it seriously as well. I can only go by what rosebud wrote - and he claimed to have seen the bridge in person.

Explain please?

Linda From Maine Loc: Yakima, Washington

(note to JENNY: no worries about your earlier rant accusing me of all manner of actionable offenses. Minnie and I are often confused for one another, and I'm quite proud of that fact.)

To the topic at hand:
In a worldwide forum, where even the word humor isn't spelled the same by everyone, we're bound to have failures of communication.

I learned early on in UHH to consider the source, and the easiest way to do that is to view a user's history. If someone has a history of posting topics whose purpose is to ridicule other users, or someone has a history of verbally abusing other users or disrupting topics, then I would be unlikely to find any of their entries fun.

Here are a few recent examples of sharing smiles with no intent to make anyone else the brunt of the joke (well, maybe Piet's doesn't count if you have arachnophobia )

http://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-406394-1.html

http://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-404451-1.html

http://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-405530-1.html

http://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-408239-1.html

-

selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA

Thank you for getting this back on track.

It seems to come down to a compulsion (there is no need) to respond to every person with whom we have had previous disagreements. That's where the train usually runs off the track. Objectivity has already been lost before the response is posted.

It would be better for all if we took a deep breath and questioned our own motivation for responding. Maybe we would realize it is often better to not respond at all or at least to take the high road - there is less traffic.

There is room here for a few class clowns. Our lives are richer for their presence.

selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA

A lot of us have seen the bridge in person, possibly from that same location. He did not imply that he took that image himself. It was a joke! Get it?