Ugly Hedgehog - Photography Forum
Home Active Topics Newest Pictures Search Login Register
General Chit-Chat (non-photography talk)
Operation Tiger: Tragic Prelude to D-Day.
Page <prev 2 of 2
Jun 5, 2016 09:40:20   #
DrWilk Loc: .
 
The E-boats were seen by hundreds of men both on shore as well as on the various ships taking part in the exercise. There was no credible evidence to indicate that a U-Boat was involved.

lateron wrote:
I know this beach and the surrounding area, Legend has it that a u-boat (U17 - Gunther Prien) was responsible for the carnage, and not E Boats. Which version is best believed?

Reply
Jun 5, 2016 10:10:07   #
rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona
 
I was aware of this incident, but not the details to the degree which you included. I've always appreciated your contributions covering history. They are fascinating. What surprises me is that with all this, the invasion was still rather a surprise to the shore based Germans defending the beaches.

Now if we could only keep people from making the same decisions which cause us to keep repeating mistakes, we'd be doing a lot better.
--Bob


DrWilk wrote:
In two days, many here on the forum will commemorate the Allied invasion of Normandy, also known as D-day. For those of you who learned your history from, "Saving Private Ryan, Band of Brothers, The Longest Day," and other assorted movies, the landing force was actually made up of roughly equal numbers of American and British Commonwealth soldiers attacking at five beaches along a 50 mile stretch of French coastline. From East to West the beaches are: Sword-British, Juno-Canadian, Gold-British, Omaha-US, and Utah-also US.

It is an event that took place during the training for the landing at Utah beach that I am relating here. A tragic event that was kept hidden from the troops and public during the war and for a long time afterwards.

On the South coast of Devon lies a lagoon and a beach. This beach was chosen by the American Army as the site for training of the troops for the invasion of Normandy due to its resembalnce to Utah Beach. For several days in late April, 1944, 300 ships and over 30,000 American soldiers and sailors practised and rehearsed their part in the invasion. There were the normal screwups that occur during any rehearsal, whether military or otherwise, but nothing major. Until the night of April 27th. On that night, the 6th of a planned 7 rehearsals were due to take place, complete with tanks and a artillery barrage.

At around 2a.m. nine German fast-attack boats spotted the ships circling in the bay and attacked. The only defence was a British Corvette which attempted to warn the American ships. Unfortunately, due to an error in radio frequencies they couldn't raise them. The shore batteries had also spotted the attacking boats but were ordered not to open fire because it would reveal their positions.

Three of the landing ships were hit by torpedoes with one severally damaged and two sunk taking many soldiers and sailors down with them. Because of poor training, many men were wearing their lifejackets around their waists instead of their chests and when they were inflated, the soldiers were flipped upside down and drowned.

The final tally was 198 sailors and seamen dead and a further 552 soldiers dead,and 89 wounded or otherwise injured from burns and broken bones. The ironic thing was that this death tally far exceeded the tally incurred during the actualattack of Utah Beach just 5 weeks later. In order to keep the Germans from learning about the invasion, the bodies were quickly buried and all mention of the tragedy was hushed up until after the war.

I realize this forum is an unusual place for another history lesson but I also realize that a very large number of readers are interested in the subject. I hope you don't mind me indulging myself.
In two days, many here on the forum will commemora... (show quote)

Reply
Jun 5, 2016 10:12:36   #
EdJ0307 Loc: out west someplace
 
twr25 wrote:
Diep was a test of amphibious landing. . .
DrWilk wrote:
The attack on Dieppe, . . .

Thanks, DrWilk, for the clarification of the spelling in twr25's post. Googling "Diep" brought up something about a Free Multiplayer game and a Chinese and Thai restaurant in Paris. You can say this is one reason that correct spelling is important even though there are those who would rag on you about being the spelling or grammar police.

Reply
 
 
Jun 5, 2016 10:19:44   #
Duggy
 
From my studies I thank the navy seals began there days before, They set charges with very little knowledge of I say on the job training. But their value was revealed there, and Seals today Call those guys Hero's.

Reply
Jun 5, 2016 11:01:27   #
richosob Loc: Lambertville, MI
 
DrWilk wrote:
The attack on Dieppe, although in some ways a disaster did teach the allies a number of valuable lessons which were implimented later on. As for the plans for Market Garden having been known by the Germans ahead of the attack, there is no evidence to support this. The primary failure of the entire plan was that it was too ambitious for the number of men available. The number of bridges that they needed to capture and do so quickly was simply too many and the failure of the 82nd Airborne to grasp the importance of capturing the bridge at Nijmegen proved to be a major error on their part.
The attack on Dieppe, although in some ways a disa... (show quote)


I did read that in Operation Market Garden a set of maps was found by the Germans on the body of a slain British officer that outlined the entire operation. Saw this in a documentary on the attack but haven't found any other way to confirm this.

Rich

Reply
Jun 5, 2016 11:10:35   #
MTG44 Loc: Corryton, Tennessee
 
I have never read anyhting about this incident. Thanks for posting and any others that come to mind.

Reply
Jun 5, 2016 11:29:38   #
DaveMM Loc: Port Elizabeth, South Africa
 
There is a Sherman tank as a memorial on the beach, which I visited a few years ago. Wikipedia says of it:

With little or no support from the American or British armed forces for any venture to recover remains or dedicate a memorial to the incident, Devon resident and civilian Ken Small took on the task of seeking to commemorate the event, after discovering evidence of the aftermath washed up on the shore while beachcombing in the early 1970s.

In 1974, Small bought from the U.S. Government the rights to a submerged tank from the 70th Tank Battalion discovered by his search efforts. In 1984, with the aid of local residents and diving firms, he raised the tank, which now stands as a memorial to the incident. The local authority provided a plinth on the seafront to put the tank on, and erected a plaque in memory of the men killed.
.

Here is a picture I took of the tank.



Reply
 
 
Jun 5, 2016 11:43:35   #
EdJ0307 Loc: out west someplace
 
DaveMM wrote:
Here is a picture I took of the tank.
When I first saw this post I was wondering where the picture was. I checked the time the post was put up and saw that it was only a minute or so earlier. So I waited a minute or two figuring it will appear and sure enough there it was. Thanks for the information and the picture.

Reply
Jun 5, 2016 11:50:13   #
lateron Loc: Yorkshire, England
 
The tank was after my time.

Reply
Jun 5, 2016 12:16:31   #
lateron Loc: Yorkshire, England
 
richosob wrote:
I did read that in Operation Market Garden a set of maps was found by the Germans on the body of a slain British officer that outlined the entire operation. Saw this in a documentary on the attack but haven't found any other way to confirm this.

Rich


There is no mention anywhere of German Intelligence finding maps prior to the attack, Mysupervisor (who was part of xxx corps)
Stated that the troops"on on the ground" blamed the Guards Armoured Div. for the Arnhem fiasco. According to the Para's, The Guards Armoured Div. allowed the Germans to regroup by their delay in arrival. This was according to my Supervisor at Peugeot - I was'nt there so I can only take his word.

Reply
Jun 5, 2016 22:18:40   #
JoAnneK01 Loc: Lahaina, Hawaii
 
DrWilk I do enjoy the excerpts of WW II which has been presented here on UHH. Mahalo for sharing.

Reply
 
 
Jun 6, 2016 13:23:07   #
rps Loc: Muskoka Ontario Canada
 
It is DIEPPE (not DIEP.) It was a Canadian operation, involving the Essex Kent Scottish. The waterfront park in Windsor Ontario, home of many of the casualties, is named DIEPPE GARDENS. To this day, the Windsor Star publishes any number of memorial items in its obituary section on the August anniversary of the raid. There were no actual tanks but tracked armored vehicles. However the beach at Dieppe is pebbled and the small pebbles jammed the tracks and immobilized them. A veteran told me that when Mountbatten gave the troops a pep talk, he returned to shore rather than continue with them. He said that's when he realized it would be a major screw up.

Reply
Jun 6, 2016 21:04:42   #
raymondh Loc: Walker, MI
 
I sure do enjoy your history lessons. Thanks for posting!!

Reply
Jun 7, 2016 09:53:35   #
EdJ0307 Loc: out west someplace
 
rps wrote:
It is DIEPPE (not DIEP.)
This had been brought up earlier in the discussion.

Reply
Page <prev 2 of 2
If you want to reply, then register here. Registration is free and your account is created instantly, so you can post right away.
General Chit-Chat (non-photography talk)
UglyHedgehog.com - Forum
Copyright 2011-2024 Ugly Hedgehog, Inc.