NormanTheGr8 Loc: Racine, Wisconsin

What do you consider a heck of a deal :D

gwong1 Loc: Tampa, FL

Following to se reply.

Basil Loc: New Mexico

Since you were considering the older 5D Mark II you might also consider a used (refurbished?) First Gen 7D. I had that camera before I upgraded to the Mark 2 and found it to be very capable. You can get them for under $1000 these dayd.

Bloke Loc: Waynesboro, Pennsylvania

Following on from this... Over the past few months I upgraded to a 7DII, and added a used 5DII to see what the FF hype was all about. Unfortunately, weather and work considerations mean that I have hardly had a chance to use either, so I am not a lot of use for info on the comparison...

However... I sold my 7D and some lenses to a friend, who is having buyers remorse and thinking about moving to mirrorless. If you (the op) or anyone else is looking for a great starter DSLR kit, send me a PM. I had offered to place an ad on here for him, since joining and immediately offering a sale would be frowned upon.

The 7D is only just a year old, and comes with a vello battery pack, 18-55mm kit lens, 55-250 kit lens. Everything is in perfect condition, and he would probably sell the lot for under $1000.

Sorry if this looks like hijacking the thread, but I thought that this really does follow on. I will now return you to your scheduled viewing...

studavis

When it comes to lenses I would not get any "s" lenses. They will restrict you to a non full frame camera. As to Cameras a full frame (5D & 6D) will give you bigger pixels and should give you a better picture. A non full frame camera (7D) will have smaller pixels except the new 7DII has enough improve meant (It's new) to be as good as the full frame older ones. You will ave an advantage in a wide angle lens with a full frame camera and an advantage with a telephone lens with a non full frame. Now you can decide the + and - of them.

imagemeister Loc: mid east Florida

With your budget, for now - 70D and the Sigma 18-35 f1.8 for the fast aperture - Later, get the Canon 70-200 f4.

Desert Gecko Loc: desert southwest, USA

I have to ask: Why did you choose several Canon models while ignoring other brands? As you are starting out with a DSLR, the playing field is wide open. I suggest you take a step back and consider other brands as well. When I made the leap to DSLR several years ago, I went in thinking of a particular brand based on my experiences with film cameras and point & shoot digital. I quickly learned that the brand I was so fond of didn't offer a DSLR to suit my needs. I started looking at other brands thinking I would end up with Canon, but I kept an open mind.

Turns out there were so many choices I started a spreadsheet to keep track of models and features. I listed characteristics such as resolution, frames per second, low-light sensitivity, etc., as well as options such as in-camera HDR, focus peaking (unique to Sony, an invaluable tool for manual focus), and more, and checked them off in my spreadsheet. I was surprised when a couple Sony cameras quickly moved toward the top, edging out Nikon and leaving Canon far below.

I am not suggesting any one brand over another. I would not choose my Sony DSLR today if I were to do this again (though I would strongly consider a Sony mirrorless). All brands make fine cameras, and loyalists will insist one is better than another. What I do suggest is you take a hard, objective look at all that is available before you decide. You might want to first consider whether a mirrorless or traditional DSLR is the direction you want to go. If I were starting out today, especially with needs as you described, I would probably go mirrorless, which I believe is the future of all cameras. And for stars, northern lights, and indoor photography as you described, I would put much weight on sensor low-light performance. Nikon and Sony mirrorless have a decided edge on Canon in that regard. If you need a gazillion lenses, though, Canon has them at generally more reasonable prices than the aforementioned brands.

jeep_daddy Loc: Prescott AZ

Yes on this. Start taking pictures, then you'll be able to see where this camera and lenses fall short so that you can start to really see what lens or camera body you might need and you can start saving for that.

Peterff Loc: O'er The Hills and Far Away, in Themyscira.

I'm not sure I agree with that as far as the specific camera is concerned. I do agree about getting started, none of the items in that package are really good choices for a number of reasons.

The T5 is a cut down, limited growth potential design. For a Rebel the 'i' designation bodies would be a much better choice. Neither of the lenses in the package are brilliant. The 18 -55 IS II is OK, but the 75 - 300 has no IS and just isn't that good.

With the OP's budgets there are much better choices both new and used.

I strongly suggest that the OP waits a few months as there appear to be several new Canon models coming in the next couple of months and that will affect the pricing of several things.

We are expecting the 80D imminently which will affect 70D pricing, and those are models that could be worth considering.

The T5 is apparently about to be replaced also, although what is being leaked about its specs doesn't seem to have a lot of difference compared with the T5.

Finally the 5DIII replacement is expected within two or three months which will also have an impact on pricing.

Given the budget ceiling of $2K, I expect the options may be quite different two to three months from now, which may allow for getting better lenses...

Going to be interesting...

sirlensalot Loc: Arizona

Perhaps more informative replies could be generated if we had an idea of the primary use(s) intended for your set-up?

amfoto1 Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA

If you have never used a DSLR, the 7D might be quite overwhelming. It's designed with fairly experienced users in mind and it's a rather complex camera that just doesn't have a lot of support for beginner users.

T5 is the other extreme... One of Canon's most entry-level models. The EF-S 18-55mm IS II is a plasticky kit lens, slower micro drive AF, but decent optical performance. The STM model that costs about $50 more has faster, smoother, quieter AF. The EF 75-300mm you mention is one of Canon's cheapest and, frankly, worst lenses. It has no stabilization, micro motor focus that's iffy at best, and the weakest optics of any of Canon's tele-zooms.

The EF-S 55-250mm IS is a much better lens that sells for about $50 more typically... And the 55-250mm STM version that's another $50 more expensive adds better AF performance. A 200 or 250mm lens on an APS-C camera is marginally "long enough" to get started with wildlife photography and birding... Eventually you might want a more powerful telephoto, but those typically cost upwards of $1000 and are considerably larger and heavier, so you're more likely to want to use a tripod or at least a monopod.

For scenic/landscape/cityscape shots often folks want something wider than 18mm (on APS-C cameras). Within the past year Canon introduced the EF-S 10-18mm IS STM that's a true bargain selling for under $300 (few other ultrawides cost under $400... and many are over $500... though Sigma has discounted their 10-20mm a lot recently, perhaps to compete with the Canon, or perhaps because they are planning to announce a replacement model soon, or both).

For astrophotography that you mention, the Tokina 11-16mm f2.8 lens has been a popular choice. It's very sharp and has been the only f2.8 ultrawide lens until recently. Unfortunately, it also is very prone to flare, which can be problematic for some times of shots (cityscapes, for example). And, in order to have the very large aperture, it has a very narrow range of focal lengths. Within the past few months Tokina has introduced an 11-20mm f2.8 that's superseding the 11-16mm... I haven't used the new lens ($550) so can't really comment about it's overall performance and how it deals with flare, but obviously it does address the limited focal length range of the earlier lens.

There also is the faster Canon EF-S 17-55mm f2.8 IS USM that's a serious upgrade from the 18-55mm, especially with it's larger, continuous aperture, also USM and better build. But it's around $900 by the time you get it with the separately sold lens hood.

Another possibility is the Canon EF-S 15-85mm IS USM that, if 15mm is adequate for your purposes, might take the place of both 10-18mm and 18-55mm... It's an excellent lens optically, with better build, sealing and higher performance USM. This lens costs about $800, though.

Note that all these are EF-S or "crop only" lenses. 6D and 5D-series cameras you mentioned are full frame format and CANNOT be used with these lenses. In fact, lenses for full frame need to produce a larger image circle to cover the bigger sensor, so will generally be heavier, larger and very often cost more.

The primary advantage of a full frame camera its enlargement potential. You can make much bigger prints from a FF camera's files, before they start to fall apart. But, today's crop sensor cameras (T5, 70D, 7D, etc.) are all quite good and capable of making pretty large prints... 16x24 easily... maybe a bit larger with a little extra work.

Yes, full frame cameras are also more low-light capable... They have less image "noise" at higher ISOs simply because their larger sensors are far less crowded that make for less heat and cross-talk that are common causes of the noise. But, really, it's a difference of a stop at most.... comparing a newer 70D APS-C to an older 5D Mark II full frame. The newer 6D full frame is another stop or two capable.

5DII and 6D both have rather simple and straight-forward auto focus systems, about on par in many respects with T3i or T5. This is fine for many of the subjects you mention, but may not be ideal for faster moving subjects, such as birds in flight or active wildlife.

The 18MP 60D's AF is a step up in some respects, although it looks about the same in the viewfinder. The 20MP 70D's AF is a further step up, actually is a slightly dumbed down version of the 19-point AF system in the original 7D, which was quite high performance and made the 7D one of the best, reasonably affordable sports/action cameras that Canon has produced to date. Now the 7D Mark II has taken this even farther, but has gotten even more complicated.

Here's a quick summary of the Canon camera line up:

Entry-level (easiest to use most automated):
- SL1/100D (most compact), T3 and T5

[/b]Step-up entry-level[/b] (still a lot of automation, but some add'l features such as articulated LCD screen):
- T3i/600D, T4i/650D, T5i/700D

Advanced entry-level (a bit less automation, more advanced AF system similar to 70D's)
- T6i/750D, T6s/760D (the latter has more advanced controls - similar to 60D, 70D - that give more direct access to some common functions).

All the above use a penta-mirror to save size, weight and cost, but also is a bit less bright and smaller than a true pentaprism. All of them also use lower specification shutters: top speed of 1/4000, flash sync of 1/200 or slower, probably rated for about 75,000 "clicks".

Mid-level, advanced amateur (true pentaprisms, in most cases higher specification shutter that have 1/8000 top speed, 1/250 flash sync on crop models, 100,000 or higher click rated, includes the lowest spec full frame models):
- APS-C models: 40D (10MP), 50D (15MP), 60D (18MP) and 70D (20MP, 7 frames per second, more advanced 19-point AF), new 80D (20MP and new 45-point AF)
- Full frame (most have 1/200 or slower flash sync): 6D (20MP, 1/4000 shutter), 5D Mark II (21MP, AF makes it mid-level, build and sealing is more pro quality).

Pro-oriented (better sealing, more metal, heavier, larger)
- APS-C models: 7D (18MP, advanced 19-point AF, 8 frames per second, 150,000 clicks), 7D Mark II (20MP, very advanced 65-point AF, 10 fps, 200,000 clicks).
- APS-H models (all discontinued now): 1D Mark IV, 1DIII, 1DIIN, 1DII, 1D.
- Full frame: 5D Mark III (22MP, 61-point AF), 5DS and 5DS-R (50MP, 61-point AF), 1DX (18MP, 61-point AF, 12 frames per second), new 1DX Mark II coming soon (20MP, 61-point AF, 14 fps). Older 1Ds Mark III, Mark II and original are FF too.

1D and 1Ds series cameras use a much larger batter pack and have a permanently installed vertical grip that makes them quite a bit larger. They have the best sealing and durability... some have shutters rated for 300,000 or even 450,000 clicks. Most use dual image processors to handle higher frame rates (7D models and 5DS use dual processors, too).

Lenses are arguably more important than the camera they are used upon... They are a bigger factor determining image quality and performance that allows you to get more difficult shots. Less expensive Canon and third party lenses use micro motor focus drive that tends to be slower and in some cases noisier or even less accurate, but is fully adequate for a lot of less active shooting purposes. Canon is the only current maker of STM (stepper motor) lenses that are still affordable, but have somewhat faster, quieter and smoother operating AF... are ideal for videography in particular. For still photos of faster action, Canon USM (ultrasonic) and similar from other manufacturers (Sigma HSM, Tamron USD) gives the quickest and most accurate performance.

Of course, optical qualities of lenses are important too... but even the worst or least expensive today are actually pretty good.

Image stabilization - Canon IS, Sigma OS, Tamron VC - is very helpful, especially on telephoto lenses, though it's nice whenever you can get it on any lens.

Lens build and sealing against dust and moisture is probably as important or even more-so, than camera build and sealing. There's not much sense spending extra for a camera that's built like a tank and sealed for good resistance to dust and moisture... Then fitting it with a lens that's not up to the same qualities.

And, honestly, no DSLRs or their lenses are fully sealed and weatherproof... They are at best weather resistant. I wouldn't take my gear out in the rain and snow without some sensible precautions, which can be as simple as a plastic bag, some rubber bands and a bit of gaffer tape. Anecdotally, at a rainy Super Bowl a few years, the pro's 1D series cameras were dying so fast that Canon Pro Services, who were there with lots of backup gear to support their pro users, ran out of backups! The main culprit seemed to be when opening the memory card door, water got inside and shorted out the camera circuitry. So even with the best gear, some common sense is still needed. Some years ago I got stuck out in a sudden downpour with a pair of 30D fitted with lenses and flashes. I did what I could to protect them with my coat and such, but the gear and I got soaked. I turned the cameras and flashes off, removed the batteries, mopped off the worst of the wet and set everything aside to dry for a couple days... all was fine in the end and still works today. But I learned my lesson and bought a bunch of cheap, plastic ponchos to keep in my camera bags and car... as well as some plastic bags to serve as rain covers for the gear.

By the way, the metal-bodied, better sealed cameras in general DO NOT have built-in WiFi, if that's a feature you want. Canon says the metal interferes with the wireless communication. Instead they offer Wireless File Transfer (WFT) modules for those more pro-oriented models, which aren't cheap (upwards of $600), but offer much greater reach as well as faster and more reliable remote control or data transfer. Many of those cameras also do not have an articulated LCD screen, another nice feature, but one that makes the camera harder to seal and perhaps a bit less durable (it's one more thing to accidentally break). None of the Canon full frame cameras have an articulated LCD, and they also do not have a built-in flash.

Speaking of which... for most of your described uses, I really think an APS-C model would do just fine. There will be a limit with it, how high an ISO you want to use in lower light conditions... but most can do ISO 800 and 1600 easily... 3200 with a little extra work in post processing. The latest can even go higher. This isn't quite as good as full frame cameras might offer. But a simple solution is to get and learn to use a tripod for the shots where long exposures are possible... And get a good accessory flash for those situations where it's needed. Though they might be helpful in an emergency, no flash that's built into a camera is particularly good.... Even the smallest accessory flashes are more powerful, have their own separate power supply so they don't rapidly drain the camera's battery, and can be relocated farther from the lens axis to reduce redeye and ugly shadows. Learn to use a flash... it can do wonders for you.

Alternative to or in conjunction with flash, "fast" lenses also can be useful for low light shooting (but using them at larger apertures means shallower depth of field). For example, the EF 50/1.8 STM is a very affordable ($110 right now) short telephoto "portrait" lens when used on an APS-C camera.

All things considered, including your budget of $2000, depending upon your comfort level with some more advanced features and experience with SLRs and photography in general, I would recommend:

T5i as the more entry-level camera, 70D as somewhat more advanced that requires more effort to learn, without being over-the-top.

There are some really good deals on these two models right now, since both are being superseded by new models (which doesn't stop the older models from being very capable of taking great shots.... besides, many of your other choices are no longer available new and may not have as good a warranty or that "new car smell" ;))

The 18MP EOS Rebel T5i is currently offered for $750 (after $350 instate rebate) for T5i in kit with EF-S 18-55mm STM IS and EF-S 55-250mm STM IS lenses.

The 20MP EOS 70D is now $1250 (after $400 instant rebate) with EF-S 18-55mm IS STM and EF-S 55-250mm STM IS. Alternatively, it's available with EF 70-300mm IS USM lens (USM might be a little better for sports/wildlife action) for $1600.

For those landscape shots, you might want to seriously consider the $300 EF-S 10-18mm IS STM. And for low light/portraits, that $110 EF 50/1.8 STM.

In either case, you may still have budget for other necessities such as memory cards, spare batteries, lens hoods, and possibly some image editing software such as Adobe Elements, a tripod and/or a flash. Canon's 270EX Mark II flash is a neat little unit that's currently offered for $140. Use it with a generic off-camera shoe cord and flash bracket (about $40 for both) for best effects.

While I agree with the idea of supporting your local camera store, it's hard to pass up some of the options offered by some of the more reliable, online mega-stores... All the pricing I've quoted are from B&H Photo in NYC. Adorama also is very good, as are a few others. Amazon, too. They also have used gear, and KEH in Atlanta is hard to beat.
Have fun shopping!

alandg46 Loc: Boerne, Texas

if you really want to do night skies, without star trails, the best option is a Pentax with the GPS gadget. That's what i use.

Desert Gecko Loc: desert southwest, USA

I think for night skies the consensus runaway champ is the Sony a7s or a7sii. I believe it's without rival for low light photography.

Bob Boner

If you want to do birds, reach is necessary. I have the 7DII which I use for birds and other wildlife. The Canon 100-400 would be useful for that. Canon has a 10-?mm zoom wide angle that should work for landscapes. You could probably get the body and one of your lenses with your budget, and get another later.

Marionsho Loc: Kansas

If I was in your shoes, I would have to take a really hard look at the weather sealing that the garage currently has. Might want to upgrade that before you consider spending any more money on camera equipment.
Marion