Rongnongno Loc: FL

Well, been doing research on lenses and sensors as per my last post.

Numerous web sites confirm the sensor/lens matching combination in order to get the best result...

This thread is not about that, not really. It is more about how close we are from maxing out a lens resolution with newer sensors.

Well, we are not close at all. On a FF camera the sensor need to reach... 250MP!!!

While this appears far fetched it really is not. There are some really heavy duty caveats here as the aperture used has a strong influence in the lens quality and precision. The more you close the aperture the less precise the lens become.

So for what I understand and for all practical reasons it seems that lenses will start to be a limiting factor once the sensor hits about +-150MP.

A change in sensor geometry can throw a monkey wrench onto that. So far they are flat. What happens when they become curved or better yet, parabolic shaped?* The internal airy disk becomes more regular and reduce ovoid shape when moving away from the lens center.

We have a long way to go and by then we may not use the same optical system as it seems that there is a push toward using multi lenses with various focal length in order to produce sharper images using math. Something a bit like the multi mirrors used in telescope arrays to observe the cosmos.

Conclusion: No, we have not reached the point where lenses resolution capabilities are lower than a sensor resolution.

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* Which would mean brand new lens technology and optical properties as well...

tradio Loc: Oxford, Ohio

Agreed.

dpullum Loc: Tampa Florida

Yes, indeed I agree.

Present day sensors are still primitive in terms of capabilities ... as are materials used for the sensor chip (and why just one). We all (well perhaps not) remember the mono-color CRT or the wow Colored CRT... then the LED and Plasma screens, now they are going Printed, Flexible, Organic Electronics... Will wonders never cease! well perhaps.. the "want my country back group" feels that color is excessive information, the flat screen society!! :lol:

I look at the CPU and the amount of info on the modern 3-4 gigabits chips vs the old computers running at 8 meg! We become more efficient at grabbing photons with the aid of those multitudes of "Angels that dance on the head of a pin."

We have not yet reached the limit.. being approached by big sensors... and yes the small ones in phones and phones with stick on lenses... we will look back and wonder as I do when thinking about the wonders of my 1 mpix camera years ago.

WessoJPEG Loc: Cincinnati, Ohio

huh!

PixelStan77 Loc: Vermont/Chicago

Right ON!

DirtFarmer Loc: Escaped from the NYC area, back to MA

I can see why you might want a sensor with a spherical curve. All points of the sensor would be equidistant from the center of the lens. But only for one focal length.

Changing focal lengths would require a different curve, so the sensor would not only have to be curved, it would have to be flexible to assume a different shape. Again, not impossible, but I don't expect to see it in my lifetime. (If I make that statement, maybe I'll be proved wrong [again]).

SonyBug

And yet more higher priced toys to part me from my Social Security...

dpullum Loc: Tampa Florida

I agree with Rongnongno's "Conclusion: No, we have not reached the point where lenses resolution capabilities are lower than a sensor resolution."

Sorry to confuse about Angles on sensors... perhaps photos... but Angles is an old quandary. How many micro sensors can one put on a small sensor... similar to the ancient philosophical pondering of how many angles can be or dance on the head of a pin. (By the way, as i scold 9th graders, you should look up thing you do not understand. Ever hear of Google? Don't be lazy and say long statements like "huh) ") :?:

When we think we have maxed out, we are being naive,,, technologies will evolve and we will be in wonderment.... then print that 50 mpix image all post process to perfection on a printer of excellent quality only to to find that our eyes are the limiting factor... Tragic but true.

If you Wesso, do not care to count angles then think of fly droppings (poop), as you age the number of fly droppings you can see on that wall 12' away diminish. As was said when on the army range.. "Pullum, you can see a fly speck at a hundred yards.. your good." Now I am not sure if it is a horse fly or a floater in my eye. :XD: We are or will be the weakest link in the photo chain of perfection. :shock: :oops: :cry:

THERE ARE ANGELS AND ANGLE ON A CAMERA SENSOR

Jim Bob

Can the technology be improved? Absolutely. There is nothing groundbreaking in that observation. The ultimate question is are we looking for cameras with the resolution of high powered microscopes and if so, except for research in various fields, what would be the consumer applications. In terms of resolution, the unassisted human eye has limitations. It is doubtful most consumers would be routinely interested in wielding a magnifying glass to enjoy photographs.

dpullum Loc: Tampa Florida

Printers with 4 inks vs 6 print the same photo... same paper... same light.... Room A & B... can you see the difference? Excuse me, remember the difference well enough to say which is which?

Assuming both are excellent printers. Then, side by side, how much difference between them can be seen at a viewing distance of 6 feet? Dance on that for a while... I am not sure... but my eyes are far from prime...

"The best visual acuity of the human eye at its optical centre (the fovea) is less than 1 arc minute per line pair, reducing rapidly away from the fovea." If you love complicate math check out the source of that quote.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_resolution

WessoJPEG Loc: Cincinnati, Ohio

Thanks :roll:

The wind blew and the shit flew and there was you

(Download)

joer Loc: Colorado/Illinois

[quote=Rongnongno]No, we have not reached the point where lenses resolution capabilities are lower than a sensor resolution.[quote]

Agree.

jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY

That makes sense. Sensors are a relatively new arrival on the scene.

dsmeltz Loc: Philadelphia

But I still want a better lens :-D

selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA

If that were the case there would be no need to upgrade your lenses to keep up with the newer high-resolution sensors.

As it stands today, you have to buy a prime lens (zooms don't come close) that may be even more expensive than the body. See Best lenses for the Nikon D810 for DxOMark's assessment:
Add to that the fact that lens performance for color and resolution is not uniform across the entire sensor or at all apertures and it is clear that there will always be room for more improvement in lenses.

And if you want to escape the inevitable diffraction limits of lenses, there is no alternative to using a larger format.