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Curse Sony's proprietary hot shoe
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Nov 11, 2015 12:40:34   #
chapjohn Loc: Tigard, Oregon
 
I started with sony A500 with Minolta flash shoe. when I got A77m2 I also got an andaptor that lets me use my flash.

Looking at adaptors might be a good option.

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Nov 11, 2015 12:53:39   #
lev29 Loc: Born and living in MA.
 
chapjohn wrote:
I started with sony A500 with Minolta flash shoe. when I got A77m2 I also got an adapter that lets me use my flash. Looking at adapters might be a good option ...

... so long as you don't mind the adapter being permanently stuck on the flash!! I'm alluding to my 1st post in this thread.

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Nov 11, 2015 13:09:05   #
lev29 Loc: Born and living in MA.
 
scsdesphotography wrote:
Here is what happened to Betamax, which was superior to VHS with regard to video quality. Sony refused to license movies released in Beta for rental, perhaps fearing that the rentals would cut into their sale of the retail versions. They actually took legal action against many of the video rental stores that carried Beta movies ... Consumers made the final choice by deciding to buy a VCR that could be used for recording and for watching rental movies (VHS) or one that could only be used for recording (Beta). Professional video studios continued to use Betamax for quite a while after the consumer market collapsed. Maybe Sony should have looked at how the automotive companies handled rentals ... (as well as what) happened to IBM when they switched from off the shelf parts to their proprietary Microarchitecture PS2 system. It would do well for these business honchos to study business history before making those executive decisions.
Here is what happened to Betamax, which was superi... (show quote)

Thank you so much for your reply, which makes a lot more sense to me than what was asserted on a History Channel program. In it, they attributed Beta's downfall to the emerging Video porn industry. That claim made no sense to me, mainly because I'm under the impression that at the time, that particular sector of the Film industry was mainly West Coast-based, where I believe Beta dominated over VHS for years. Also, weren't consumer-grade Betamax tapes only an hour long vs two hours for VHS? I just wonder how many people could view a porno film lasting over an hour in one sitting.

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Nov 11, 2015 13:41:26   #
CHOLLY Loc: THE FLORIDA PANHANDLE!
 
coolhoosier wrote:
Fortunately, they're transitioning from that proprietary design back to the more conventional universal hot shoe.

Be that as it may, I have a problem with the Sony shoe. I have an A77 that refuses to recognize my Yongnuo 560 II flash even though they supposedly have compatible Sony shoes. The flash selection is for fill in flash, but the electronic display shows the flash is off or not attached.

I also have a remote trigger that the camera won't recognize either. I suspect the either the camera shoe is faulty (would have happened suddenly) or (just as likely) I'm doing something or not doing something that keeps the camera from seeing the flash.

Any ideas?

Thanks in advance.
Fortunately, they're transitioning from that propr... (show quote)


Tom, it has absolutely nothing to do with the hot shoe; it's all in the settings. ;)

A few questions:

Has your Yongnuo flash ever worked on your A77? Do you have any other Minolta Hot Shoe Cameras you can try it on?

If it has never worked on your A77, then check your camera settings.

If you push your function button, you can set your flash mode. If you set it to fill flash, be sure to place the gun on the camera BEFORE you turn it on.

Then, check to see that the flash recognizes the camera. You will need to look at your owners manual to be sure it is ready to fire on the camera.

One more check; go to your Camera 2 menu. Be sure it is set either to ADI or TTL... NOT manual, which will not work in Fill Flash mode. IF the camera is set properly, the try a test shot. Repeat on the other setting... ADI if the first shot was TTL, or TTL if the first shot was ADI.

If the Infrared AF Illuminator on the flash lights up, you are ready to go. If not, then there are a couple of things you can do.

First, turn off the flash, turn it back on, and try again.

Be SURE you are in a mode that will allow you to use fill flash.

Then shoot.

If it STILL doesn't work, then the problem is probably with the flash.

My A77 works perfectly with both of my Minolta shoe Sony flashes AND my old Minolta flashes, including the old ISO shoe Minolta I bought with my 35mm Maxxum.

Occasionally I will have to cycle through the Flash metering mode, switching from Manual to TTL or TTL to ADI, but usually all I have to do is turn the camera on then pop on the flash gun. It will automatically come on, recognize the camera mode, and be ready to use.

The Yongnuo flash for Minolta Hot Shoe has the required firmware installed to communicate with your A77. Not sure about your trigger. But the important thing is to make sure the settings are correct.

GOOD LUCK!

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Nov 11, 2015 13:56:22   #
CHOLLY Loc: THE FLORIDA PANHANDLE!
 
LoneRangeFinder wrote:
Exactly: I did video production in the 90's. Without question the Betamax was superior in every way to VHS and S-VHS. Too bad, their short-sighted proprietary mentality killed a very good product


^^^Betamax was EXTREMELY superior to VHS. But it wasn't the proprietary nature of the format that killed it for consumers. It was the fact that Sony was out marketed.

JVC did a MUCH better job of penetrating the consumer market than Sony did, offering it's format to twice as many companies than Sony, and selling their players for less, even though the tapes themselves were more expensive and subject to failure than Betamax tapes were.

Betamax is STILL found in video production around the world, and is the favored analog recording format in Television station across America.. but digital recording has killed ALL analog tape technology.

This comes after nearly 41 years of Betamax recording, and Sony will soon stop production due to lack of demand. It should be noted... that Betamax actually outlasted VHS, which was killed in the consumer market by the introduction of cheap DVR technology.

So VHS didn't kill Betamax, nor was it any more "proprietary" than VHS. Marketing was Sony's downfall.

And BTW, Memory Sticks are still being produced and sold.

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Nov 11, 2015 14:06:54   #
CHOLLY Loc: THE FLORIDA PANHANDLE!
 
dpullum wrote:
I will agree if you are talking about acceptance, however if you are talking design the Sony is mechanically superior... and is Auto-Lock. Sony would be MIL Specification, but we are not the military and 20 cents per camera is 20C. No one on UHH would pay 20 cents for a superior product, would we (?). The ISO design is "cheap" and works. Works and cheap is sufficient for most. A good read:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_shoe



^^^^This is SOOOOOOOO true!

The Minolta Hot Shoe design was superior is every way to the standard ISO configuration. It allowed for faster communication between the microprocessors in both the camera and flash gun AND offered a secure, 100% connection between both.

It is/was also more robust and durable than the standard ISO hot shoe.

A much better system than the current one.

And again, Sony expands Minolta's legacy of designing a better hot shoe by making all it's current hot shoes "Multi-Interface"... electronic connections at the north end of the seat that allow communication between accessory devices and the camera. Everything from Audio equipment like microphones to Monitors and recording devices.

VERY cutting edge and visionary.

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Nov 11, 2015 14:11:51   #
CHOLLY Loc: THE FLORIDA PANHANDLE!
 
lloydl2 wrote:
It's worse than that. ..the new is hot shoe is also different and the firing center pin doesn't lineup worn standard ISO devices. However I am able to use yungnuo 560 flashes with my sony a99. Did have to get a special cable and shoe to use my sony flash with pocket wizards and then again only in manual mode.


They do work.

The thing is NOT sliding the flash gun all the way forward as you would with other ISO hot shoes. This could potentially damage the connector pins of the Sony MI Hot Shoe.

When you slide on your flash, carefully slide it until the locking pin slides into the hole THEN STOP. Everything is perfectly aligned. Continuing to slide it forward takes the flash OUT of alignment.

Try it. :)

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Nov 11, 2015 14:19:15   #
CHOLLY Loc: THE FLORIDA PANHANDLE!
 
scsdesphotography wrote:
Here is what happened to Betamax, which was superior to VHS with regard to video quality. Sony refused to license movies released in Beta for rental, perhaps fearing that the rentals would cut into their sale of the retail versions. They actually took legal action against many of the video rental stores that carried Beta movies. Some of the smaller rental places were able to fly under the radar and continued to carry the Sony product for a while longer.

Consumers made the final choice by deciding to by a VCR that could be used for recording and for watching rental movies (VHS) or one that could only be used for recording (Beta). Professional video studios continued to use Betamax for quite a while after the consumer market collapsed. Maybe Sony should have looked at how the automotive companies handled rentals.

By the way the same thing happened to IBM when they switched from off the shelf parts to their proprietary Microarchitecture PS2 system. It would do well for these business honchos to study business history before making those executive decisions.
Here is what happened to Betamax, which was superi... (show quote)


The most important deciding factor in the Beta/VHS format war was marketing, plain and simple.

Sony Licensed Betamax technology to 13 companies. JVC on the other hand was MUCH more aggressive, in some cases reducing or waiving licensing fees until it had 42 companies using their technology.

As stated earlier, Sony decks were slightly more expensive than the cheaper in quality and construction VHS decks, and since more companies were selling those VHS decks in the consumer market, the downfall of Beta was a foregone conclusion.

It was sales of units... not tapes or videos... that relegated Betamax to professional studios.

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Nov 11, 2015 14:35:30   #
fahfah Loc: Detroitish
 
Another reason for the Minolta hot shoe design was that it was sturdier and more robust than the ISO design. Flashes were getting bigger and heavier and they felt they needed a design that could handle the extra size and weight. Herb Keppler from Popular Photography magazine had a hand in the design.

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Nov 11, 2015 14:36:56   #
CHOLLY Loc: THE FLORIDA PANHANDLE!
 
^^^It was/is a MUCH better design than the ISO standard hot shoe. :thumbup:

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Nov 11, 2015 15:04:08   #
lloydl2 Loc: Gilbert, AZ
 
To my knowledge the yungnuo flashes do not support sony ttl they would have to be used in manual mode..


CHOLLY wrote:
Tom, it has absolutely nothing to do with the hot shoe; it's all in the settings. ;)

A few questions:

Has your Yongnuo flash ever worked on your A77? Do you have any other Minolta Hot Shoe Cameras you can try it on?

If it has never worked on your A77, then check your camera settings.

If you push your function button, you can set your flash mode. If you set it to fill flash, be sure to place the gun on the camera BEFORE you turn it on.

Then, check to see that the flash recognizes the camera. You will need to look at your owners manual to be sure it is ready to fire on the camera.

One more check; go to your Camera 2 menu. Be sure it is set either to ADI or TTL... NOT manual, which will not work in Fill Flash mode. IF the camera is set properly, the try a test shot. Repeat on the other setting... ADI if the first shot was TTL, or TTL if the first shot was ADI.

If the Infrared AF Illuminator on the flash lights up, you are ready to go. If not, then there are a couple of things you can do.

First, turn off the flash, turn it back on, and try again.

Be SURE you are in a mode that will allow you to use fill flash.

Then shoot.

If it STILL doesn't work, then the problem is probably with the flash.

My A77 works perfectly with both of my Minolta shoe Sony flashes AND my old Minolta flashes, including the old ISO shoe Minolta I bought with my 35mm Maxxum.

Occasionally I will have to cycle through the Flash metering mode, switching from Manual to TTL or TTL to ADI, but usually all I have to do is turn the camera on then pop on the flash gun. It will automatically come on, recognize the camera mode, and be ready to use.

The Yongnuo flash for Minolta Hot Shoe has the required firmware installed to communicate with your A77. Not sure about your trigger. But the important thing is to make sure the settings are correct.

GOOD LUCK!
Tom, it has absolutely nothing to do with the hot ... (show quote)

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Nov 11, 2015 15:50:35   #
WayneL Loc: Baltimore Md
 
lev29 wrote:
I have a Problem in Reverse! I bought two Minolta Maxxum SLR cameras in the 1990's along with a Minolta Flash that still works. This flash mates, as expected, normally with my first two Sony dSLR cameras, the A100 and A55, but NOT with my Sony a6000.

So a couple of months ago, I purchased a Sony multi-shoe adapter (from B&H Photo,) so that my Minolta Flash now mates with my a6000. Yes, the pair does function together. However, I subsequently discovered I cannot detach the Adapter from the Flash. I had multiple other people try as well; all failed. The obvious next step for me is to consult B&H, even though it would be too late to return the Adapter even I wanted to.

So my problem is that I have, perhaps permanently, converted my Minolta Flash to work with Sony's "multi" mount? Besides no longer being functional with my Sony A-mount cameras, does this "obligatory" conversion have any other drawbacks or any unheralded advantages (e.g. now usable with different camera brands)?

Secondly, does anybody know of a method to detach that hot shoe adapter without damaging it or the Flash to which it is attached?

Thank you.
I have a Problem in Reverse! I bought two Minolta ... (show quote)


My Minolta mount flash which is a Sunpak has a lever/wheel at the bottom just above the shoe that you turn
to one side to lock or unlock

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Nov 11, 2015 19:20:33   #
speters Loc: Grangeville/Idaho
 
hcmcdole wrote:
Sony does odd things at times - Betamax and their own proprietary memory stick are two examples. Sometimes they win, sometimes they lose - (lose) their fan base when they do these kinds of things.

When Sony took over Minolta, they for a while continued using then Minolta's unique hot shoe design ( I for myself like it a lot better than the standard (the old Leica design, that's on everyone elses camera)!!!

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Nov 11, 2015 19:26:03   #
dpullum Loc: Tampa Florida
 
CHOLLY wrote:
^^^^ ... And again, Sony expands Minolta's legacy of designing a better hot shoe by making all it's current hot shoes "Multi-Interface"... electronic connections at the north end of the seat that allow communication between accessory devices and the camera. Everything from Audio equipment like microphones to Monitors and recording devices. VERY cutting edge and visionary.

Yes, we should mention those 16 pins for add on devices.

Innovation is too often the equivalent of failure. Studebaker had a mod body design, glow at night dash, and other innovations. The conservative old children of the USA laughed at them because they were different, were not the 1940s design of Ford and Chev. (well also you could not get parts, but also because they were not Ford or Chev.)

I have 3 Sonys... one pocket and two DSLR with lots of old Minolta lenses. Yep, also two Canon SX50s (unique).

We see so much zombie love for Canon Nikon and panning of Sony, yet the award winning Sony cameras are ignored for what is "know to be like every one buys."

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Nov 11, 2015 19:35:02   #
hcmcdole
 
Ah, I've had Sony Camcorders (first one sucked because of the battery but everyone was using NiCad back then, so they weren't the only ones) and my wife had a bridge camera - beautiful photos but I still hated the idea of buying their memory stick. Sometimes their better ideas catch on, sometimes they don't but all companies are guilty of this.

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