gym Loc: Athens, Georgia

In today's digital platform, with cell phones and social media specializing in the sharing of people's photos, how are the bride's expectations/desires changing with regard to what she really wants as a pictorial memory of her very special day? Is the demand for that traditional 'coffee table album' now on the wane? Is there an increasing number of clients who ONLY want a CD with no prints at all?
I'd be especially interested in hearing from those who routinely do weddings as a significant part of their income.

wilsondl2 Loc: Lincoln, Nebraska

In My Not So Humble Opinion Brides want anything and everything. The Photographer needs to decide how he wants to shoot Weddings and then when talking to Brides see if that is what she wants. I do traditional coverage which includes dressing room shots, ceremony, and then "formal" shots of the B&G, Wedding Party and Family. The Bride and Groom leaving. If they want the reception it is extra. I shoot under 200 shots. With this few of shots I need limited time to do PP. This way I can make as much per hour as the thousand of shots photographers and still charge a moderate price. I also discuss with the Bride how all their fiends and relatives will be taking pictures of everything with their phones, point and shoot, bridge, dslrs will be taken pictures and to make sure that the send them a jpeg to them. What they are hiring me for is my skill at arranging groups and do beautiful posing. Of course I will do shots in the park, If I see an interesting candid I take them. I show at least two weddings I do to prospective customers so they can see what they will get. I do give the 4X6 prints of every picture and a disk with JPEGS. I know others have plans with three and take thousands of pictures and sell prints on the Web. And there is everything in between and more. - Dave

fotodon Loc: Oberlin, OH

Pretty much the way I see it also Dave. Except I might say that brides really don't know what they want. Or, at least they only know what they have been told by friends, relatives and bridal publications. And, to me, these sources of information are lacking in promoting quality wedding photography. Also, what is ironic, is that trade organizations like PPA, and WPPI work hard at teaching photographers how to supply a quality product, but no one is teaching the brides what quality photography is.

So, yes Dave, a photographer must decide on what his business model will be and then brand himself accordingly. If a bride wants just a disc then there are plenty of shoot and burn photographers out there that will take the assignment. We won't, because we don't think shoot and burn is quality wedding photography and we don't brand ourselves that way. We do give the B&G a high res disc as part of the package but the package always includes an album. Sometimes we have to reduce the album to a bare bones quality but only if the B&G have genuine financial restrictions. We have worked hard for 40 years to establish ourselves as mid to high end photographers and establish our price point to reflect that. We found out the hard way that shooting a couple of "budget" weddings can undermine that in a big hurry.

To summarize for the OP...the brides that come to you will come to you and want what you are selling because of what you are selling. If your product line includes bargain basement products you will be buried alive by bargain hunters and probably never be able to sell your high quality line. It follows that if you brand yourself as mid to high end then the brides that come to you want mid to high end products. (read album here) But, if you go mid to high end then they better be just that or you will find yourself out of business quickly. In addition to this, social media has become an integral part of wedding photography and must be judicially utilized to enhance your wedding package.

gym Loc: Athens, Georgia

Thanks for the replies. However, what I am asking is what you see as trends in the general wedding market. There will always be a wide diversity in the things that are wanted in wedding photography but what are the generalizations today that might be different from the days of film? Do you think that more and more are wanting to forgo actual prints or do you think that those who want CDs only are still very few in number and do not take a significant part of the market?

fotodon Loc: Oberlin, OH

Comparing film to digital is apple and oranges. Negatives were worthless to the B&G. Albums had legacy value. With the economic crash of 2008 and digital gaining a firm hold on photography things changed. Brides became more frugal. Bridal mags played to that with "You can save money by getting the disc only and printing your own album". This and price drops on quality cameras gave birth to the shoot and burn era. Weekend warriors who didn't even know what Photoshop was came out of the woodwork and had plenty of customers.

Let me insert a couple of historical items here. Top wedding pros were using Photoshop and scanned negatives to produce albums long before digital cameras gained widespread acceptance. There were no Snapfish or Shutterfly sites for brides to use to print albums and no scrapbook supply stores. Quality album suppliers only dealt with verifiable pros. Back in the 70's and 80's B&Gs age was 19 or 20 on average. Mom and dad's paid for the wedding and pretty much dictated what the money would be spent on. Of course, the wedding album was a must in their mind. Now the average B&G are well into their 20's, fresh out of college, feeling empowered and want to have control and are paying a big part of the bill. They do research online and in magazines and listen to their friends and are very into social media. Yes, this has driven the changes in "what a bride wants".

Now, in my opinion based on some facts, these are the changes. I believe that the shoot and burn era peaked about 2010. I see the trend going back to high quality photography and albums. There are a ton of reasons for this but here a few. PPA published a study back then that showed only 1 in 10 brides doing anything at all with their files on disc. Those brides are now more mature with different ideas. They are wanting to show their wedding pics to their kids or just relive some faded memories only to find that the disc is dead or lost or just no fun looking at on a computer screen. Articles in wedding mags are starting to reflect this dilemma. Wedding photography horror stories have gone through the roof. Weekend warriors are finding out the realities of wedding photography and are dropping out leaving those that love the art and are getting educated on quality wedding photography. As more high quality albums are showing up on coffee tables and being compared to junk the peer influence is having an effect on what brides want. This is a slow trend but positive one.

Brides are still frugal but are becoming smarter about what has value. I do an exercise with the B&G at the initial consultation. I have the bride hold out her hands upright and cupped. Then I say "This is what you are spending your money on" and place an imaginary ring, dress and album in her right hand and an imaginary limo, DJ, hall, caterer, flowers, cake in her left hand. Then I say "The day after and for years after the wedding this is what you have left" and I tip her left hand over and gently squeeze her right hand saying "You only have memories of what was in the left hand and those memories can only be preserved forever in your wedding album"

There will always be changing trends in wedding photography but smart wedding photographers can influence what those trends are. Regardless of whether you shoot 2 weddings a year or 20, if you are proud of what you are doing it is likely that the B&G will be proud of what they are getting. Don't sell yourself short or let the B&G shortchange themselves. You are the pro and they will almost always appreciate your advice. The real estate salesman selling $200,000 homes will not last long telling his customers that they are better off in a $50,000 home or wasting his time showing the big house to customers that are shopping for a small one. But he also has to remember that the small house customer is really looking for a reason to buy the bigger one that they really want.

Sorry for the long post, but I get long winded when I think I may be able to help a newbie become a better wedding photographer.

bkyser Loc: Fly over country in Indiana

Wow, Don, amazing post. Nobody suffers from the art of making wordy posts, more than me, but you made great points. I'm going to "borrow your 2 handed exercise tomorrow" Have another consultation. This one is weird, because the Bride and Groom want to schedule their wedding around MY availability. While flattered, I did tell them that I still need to talk to them in person for a consultation to make sure that we "connect." This is a thing that I use as a sales tool as well. I make them feel special that I won't shoot just anyone, which is true.

As for the original post.
I think Don nailed it as for the shoot and burn wedding shooters going out of favor at least a little bit. I still do get asked if we will do that, and my answer is no, and I tell them why. Some will say "no thanks" and some will say "wow, thanks" when I explain what happens to photos that are never printed. My personal opinion is that if someone wants something that I'm not comfortable providing (shoot and burn services) I'd rather have my Saturday free and go fishing, than to do something that I'm not proud of, and won't help my reputation.

I'm struggling really bad with getting album sales after the wedding, and after some of the suggestions here, I'm going to be working on my packages, and add albums and just make prints for the walls as add ons. The reality of it is, after 30+ years, my album is still on the coffee table, my kids and grandkids love picking it up and looking at it, and I find myself looking at it from time to time. Any prints we had on the wall are in a back closet, and I've been using the frames for more current family photos.

I'm looking at a couple of options. I haven't pulled the trigger yet, but I want to purchase some really nice laser engraved wooden albums that hold 200 4x6 prints as "parent albums" (several are available on Etsy) and then do a really nice press printed album. I just haven't found the perfect combination of price and quality. Of course, I want the best quality at the lowest price (like anyone) and haven't found "the" printer yet. I will probably just go with one, and keep shopping until I find the perfect vendor for me.

So, well, I guess, I'm also sorry for the wordy post. :oops:

wilsondl2 Loc: Lincoln, Nebraska

Do not look too far down on the shoot and burners. Even though I do not do it there are many folks that just can not afford any other photographers. When my #2 son got married his brides mother said I only have $350 to spend on the Wedding. We agreed to the Same amount. We did a great Wedding with a lot of work that was hired for our other children. Of course I did the photography. Many shoot and burners are good photographers - they know how to put roups together how pose the Bride and Groom, how to get a good white balance etc. Some are not but the good once are busy every weekend. They are doing a real service for those on a limited budget. And since taking the pictures is all they do there is not extra time doing PP. If they are not good they will not get many Weddings - Word gets around. Just wanted to geve another view. - Dave

bkyser Loc: Fly over country in Indiana

Good point, I'm not trying to put shoot and burn photographers down, they have their place. It is their business model. There are those that yell at me for my pricing structure, but it is what works for me. I stay busy enough, but also make enough to make it worth my while to lose a whole Saturday. (plus the time spent with PP) I'd be willing to go out on a limb and say there are TONS of Shoot and Burn people out there with a lot more talent than me. I'm my own worst critic. It just isn't the model that I want to have, and I certainly wouldn't want to get in a place where that's all I could do. I dare say that if I only made $350, and had to take expenses from that, I think I'd just do portrait work instead.

Beercat Loc: Central Coast of California

Here is where the lines get blurred when you discuss price with the B&G.

When the B&G go look at the work for the shoot and burn weekend warriors they don't get a real representation of what they will be getting. Do you really think the shoot and burn snapper uploads to his on-line gallery for all the B&G's to see stuff right out of their camera? That is where the problem arises. A Bride will tell me so and so will do it for $500 and I want 3+ times that. The examples the Bride views from both shooter look good. But in reality I'll take 3 man hours in PP for every hour on-site and for this reason my 3+ times price tag is warranted. But it's a hard one tell share with the Bride, all she sees is the examples from the shoot and burn that has been through PP.

I find many shoot and burn snappers misrepresent truth and for this reason I have very little respect for them. It's all about truth in advertising and in many cases the shoot and burn people are not being truthful.

gym Loc: Athens, Georgia

This is just ONE of the reasons I don't do weddings. I never want to be so presumptuous as to think I have the skills to compete with an established wedding photographer. I can't. But I have been asked on numerous occasions to do the 'CD' wedding for much less - BECAUSE the couple just can't afford the Cadillac package. To date, I have always refused, even though I know the b and g could never, in their wildest dreams, afford the services that an accomplished photographer can provide.
But if I DID consent to do the wedding, I would NEVER give them a CD with unedited images. Even when I do events with a CD as the primary part of the package, I ALWAYS edit, and NEVER give the client any images that I would not at least be equal to the standard I've set for the representation of my work. Any images I don't like, I delete, and the bride never even sees them.

Beercat Loc: Central Coast of California

So how many hours do you figure it takes to shoot a wedding and then do a solid job on the PP?

Now divide $350 by that number .......... did you at least earn minimum wage :shock:

wilsondl2 Loc: Lincoln, Nebraska

When folks just ca not afford the $1000 (low end) full service photographer. Their whole wedding budget may be only $1000 that is where the shoot and burn guy can be of geat service. Many I know show the B&G a disk of two or three weddings they have shot so they can see what they can get. Some get very good results. Remember film days you could do very little PP. I think why many full service photographers bitch so much about the shoot and burn guys is they do a pretty good job. And Brids see their work and opt to pay 1/3 even though the pictures may not be as good. It's a funny thing Wal Mart shoppers will not shop high priced shops but those who shop high priced shops do some of their shopping at Wall Mart. The same thing can be said about Wedding Photographers. - Dave

gym Loc: Athens, Georgia

The PP depends on how good the original photos are. As for the number of hours it takes to shoot a wedding, you're looking at how many hours it takes if you're a premiere wedding guy, with all the bells and whistles. That's not the issue.

And besides, I would never shoot a wedding for 350, regardless of the package. Oh, wait.......... I don't do weddings at all. :)

bkyser Loc: Fly over country in Indiana

An issue I see is when a couple spends a ridiculous amount of money on all the decorations, expensive catering, limos for them and the wedding party, then they complain about the cost of the one tangible service that should outlast the couple. (except for maybe the rings, what else from a wedding will live on? I have my parent's wedding album, and we occasionally look at the photos when family is around for different things. Dress, gone. Food, long gone, Flowers, gone, booze, long gone....wedding photos. Still in a place of honor in my house, right beside my own album. Their album consists of 12 square cropped photos in a slip sheet photo album, and I treasure those photos as much as anything I got from them.

Beercat Loc: Central Coast of California

I'll say this nicely ......... you didn't answer the question

And FYI, most shoot and burn snappers don't show there jpegs right from the camera to the potential client, they've been warmed up, anyone with some PP experience can spot this. Not saying there that some out there do show the true snaps but it's the exception.

My father drives a $100K+ corvette. When he wants some bottled water he goes to Walmart and yes, parks his ride in the parking lot.

But if he wants a top end Canon or Nikon he doesn't go to Walmart ........... because he knows the cameras Walmart carries are crap compared to a good photography store.

It most cases to get what you pay for, problem is you don't know sometimes because the advertising is misleading. That 'Walmar't shoot and burn advertises a Canon 5DIII, but when the UPS man delivers and you open the box it's a point and shoot :lol: I know, there are exceptions .......