gessman Loc: Colorado

I AM a glowing a little cyan in my avatar pic which seems to be getting darker and darker but not when I pull the same pic in from my hard drive. On my monitor too and you're face has been glowing red over here but it isn't doing so as much this morning for some reason.

DB Loc: Myrtle Beach, SC

I work with a dual monitor system and one is older than the other. I can bring up a photo on one, adjsut it until it looks the way I want then move it to the second monitor and yuck not the same. Its also the same with my printer, Epson Artisan 700. Its main use is when I do military reunions and need a way to print off scrapbook pages immediately. One problem I think effects the printed vs monitor image is that monitors read RGB and Printers read CMYK. Basically meaning printers "see" more colors than a monitor. (you can read about it here: http://www.printernational.org/rgb-versus-cmyk.php )
I am so often really disappointed if I try to print something that looks fantastic on my monitor.

As for critiquing, a pat on the back for effort goes a long way in accepting constructive critiquing. Inside each of us is that hidden kidergarten child who comes home with his first art project beaming with pride, only to have someone say You Did It Wrong.... Photography is subjective, whether tach sharp or Artsy.... we must please our inner self first and not let anyone destroy that. Only then can we begin to learn from others.

And on that note, I'm going off to a classic car show this afternoon and try to bring some of the beautiful sunshine out there into my heavy heart today. Be kind to each other, it sure goes a longggggggg way.

gessman Loc: Colorado

...and Ladies, please.

Okay, Joe, perhaps I just need to say "ooops" and back up. I haven't seen all this discussion you're talking about that I can recall in the period of time I've been observing the forum. What I've been seeing is a situation where folks are making suggestions that were confusing me and the things they're saying are being said with the force of the Almighty in some cases, many cases, perhaps most cases. Maybe I raised more than one issue here and maybe we just need to separate those issues out so those of us who are less experienced and isolated from the broader photography world can get a little better grip on what's going on here.

The person who recommended to me yesterday that I perhaps should punch up my color came onto the forum just in the recent day or so and was no doubt well-intentioned and approached it in a matter of fact and confident way, courteously stating what they'd like to see me do to my images and I immediately backed up and said, whoa, what the heck. Most of my shots have, for whatever the reason gone largely un-critiqued by most in here except the faithful few who seem to appreciate a fairly pleasant image and their reaction has been mostly very positive. I've been taking that as "no news is good news." Not so much with my images but, I've seen recommendations that, "you should tone down the green, your image is out of focus, you need to do this or that," and I'm sitting here often not necessarily in complete agreement. I've seen a need to soften my own assessment of the images of others for a variety of reasons.

I'm wondering, "is it just me, or what." I'm not happy about that. It leaves the big question unanswered - "am I just peeing into the wind here or is there hope for me. Will I ever see it." The things I've seen in here have made me question whether any of my images would ever "make the cut." It hasn't caused me to lose any sleep since I'm not eating from the photography trough but I'm thinking, "if I'm getting what I'm taking away from here, what is happening with the folks who come into this forum saying, 'I'm brand new to photography.'" Some of them must really be confused not having a clue as to how to separate out what they can rely on as being valid and what they have to accept as useless. Any ideas on that? I would like to hear something besides, "beauty is in the eye of the beholder." I think we have to reserve that for when everything else fails. If it's real, then there's a real explanation.

I don't feel like my shots have been critically, adequately, and objectively assessed and while it's gratifying that there are those who appreciate my "work," it isn't very gratifying when someone blasts you out of the water when you're sitting fat and happy with what you're looking at. So, what you seem to be saying is have fun, show your work if you want to but you're really not likely to benefit critically from doing so. Okay. Fair enough. That sheds another light on what's going on here and I'll approach it from another angle.

This is my first participation in a discussion group of any kind and I've been on the 'net, as I've said, since before there was a www. As for the folks who have been using this forum as a bully pulpit, well... I think there's still merit in the discussion but I also think the game changes here. Sorry! I was hoping we were dealing with something a little more definitive. Obviously, we aren't. There's still some very good information to be gleaned from here being pointed to the useful urls, educational forums, etc., but it is clearly not a place where we can expect to come and get a seriously meaningful view from others about our work. It just isn't. So then it becomes "show and tell."

I apologize for bringing this up since there "has been no dearth of discussion about this subject." I'm just not sure how I missed that. I've been glued to this forum since I found it and I don't recall this discussion existing in to any degree of detail. Passing comments, maybe - thorough discussion? If so, I just missed it and it looks like I'm not the only one. Excuse me, please. I disagree with and dislike needless redundancy. Have a good one.
:-)

problem child Loc: Kingman AZ

Quick solution is get one of these.. I have one and my prints look fantastic.

http://www.pantone.com/Pages/products/product.aspx?pid=562

or if you have lots of coin you can get


http://www.pantone.com/Pages/products/product.aspx?pid=1148&ca=2

DB Loc: Myrtle Beach, SC

Thanks but does it have a trial version to try out first. According to the reviews there are installation problems I don't want to spend $99 for something I haven't tried first. Thanks for the information though...

problem child Loc: Kingman AZ

I am running Windows XP on this machine and it went in easy. There is a piece of hardware that comes with it so sadly there is no trial version. I am also running a CRT monitor.. I have tried flat screens but they don't cut it in my opinion. There are also these but they are a little more pricy.

http://spyder.datacolor.com/product-mc-s3pro.php

http://spyder.datacolor.com/product-mc.php

ShakyShutter Loc: Arizona

jrubin11 has outlined the only sensible approach to prints turning out the way you expect short of including a Macbeth chart and a gray card in every shot.

Yooper Loc: U.P. Michigan

Well, gessman, once again you've brought up an interesting and challenging question. I believe that you did indeed bring up 2 different issues; how images are seen by different people with different monitors, and what is done with what that perception. The first is easy to identify and discuss solutions to, such as what monitor or what calibration tool to buy, or even the need to calibrate, and is the first thing that my mind went to concerning this topic. I've gone to great lengths to do the best I can to get accurate color in my images, buying good monitors, calibrating them regularly, even having a grey desk and painting the walls of my office grey. While those things are important, and understanding the realities about the difference in how images are seen by different monitors can help the second issue, if I am understanding the point of this discussion correctly the second issue is much deeper and involves human nature and respect for one another.

In addition to differences in how images look depending on what monitor (and light, and viewing conditions, etc.), I think we should remember that photography is subjective, and we each have different visions of what an image should look like, and different knowledge of how to achieve that vision. I have forgotten that at times, and have probably made improper comments or suggestions, and to anyone I've offended, I apologize. As a rule, human beings are opinionated, and sharing our opinion can make us feel good about ourselves, especially to someone that we perceive to be less knowledgeable than we think we are, or when we think we see a way to improve someone else's work. Sometimes we are right, but at some time in the past, each of us was a beginner, and it would serve us well to try to share our suggestions with others in the same manner in which we would like other's suggestion shared with us, as well as understanding that what we are seeing on our monitor may not be what the photographer of that image sees. We should respect each other enough to make that effort.

I, too, was hoping for more significant input on my images. I know I am not doing professional quality work in all my images, although some have turned out fairly decent, but I desire to get there (not that I want to be a full-time professional photographer; that sounds too much like, well, work) and really appreciate it when someone takes the time to give a thoughtful critique. It does take some effort to figure out and put in words specifically what you like or don't like about an image, but those comments can help someone learn and improve and understand what other people like in your images much more than a generic "I don't like it" or, "nice shot" or even "wow". An atta-boy does give you a nice boost to your confidence, but a thoughtful critique would be of more benefit. Maybe I have been looking more for critiques than comments, and maybe this isn't the place for that.

problem child Loc: Kingman AZ

I too am a little disappointed in feed back. I've posted some old stuff a couple of times and got one coment from Sinatraman. Is it because I shoot film ? Anyways here they are again
http://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-1962-1.html#17079

and this one. 367 hits and no coments

http://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-1929-1.html

RFranko Loc: Albuquerque, NM

Well, I think we all agree that it is not possible to get accurate colors for our prints when viewed on the internet and on this forum. Just way to many variables.
Now, we have entered the realm of getting a color matched print from a lab.
Yes, you can print a bunch of prints making adjustments with each until you get what you want coming out of the printer. That is time consuming and a waste of expensive ink. Yes, you can then take that print to the lab and have them match the colors, brightnes etc.
Here is a better way and a lot cheaper.
Buy an Xrite passport color checker and white balance. Go to www.xritephoto.com to see what they are about.
what you do is place the color checker/white balance in the scene you are photographing. As long as you are shooting under the same lighting conditions you only have to do it for the first shot. If you change locations or change lighting conditions reshoot the passport.
Now at you editing software you can balance the color and white balance by using the white balance eye dropper and clicking the white balance card. Next you syncronize alll the images that used that white balance.
modify and select the images you want printed by the lab. down load the image file AND the passport image to your cd and take it to the lab. Let them know that you have a calibration image on the disk. They will print your image exactly matching your image.
There is no need to be running a bunch of test prints and adjusting the color and printing a bunch out trying to get the one you want. You are just wasting time, paper, ink and money. The passport color checker/white balance cost $100..

gessman Loc: Colorado

Thanks for that RFranko. That ought to be a lot of help for anyone making prints of their images.

nolte1964 Loc: Des Moines, Iowa

I look at the pictures on my monitor and then I look at them on my 50" THX plasma and it seems they are pretty close in results. I am going to cLivrate my monitor this week with spyder so will be interesting to see the difference. I will be doing my plasma also. Usually what I hear on my photos is my tones are a little off so hopefully I will be able to see rhis better.

liv2paddle Loc: Wall, NJ

If you want an honest critique..don't look for it here.I believe political correctness has reared its ulgyhedgehog..lol. There are few here with the gonads to express truth.No news is probably ..not good news. If I see something so bad ..its not worth a response. People will fix crop etc to improve on an image..truth be told..it was an unexposed..poorly composed..mess. and that Sir is the truth.

gessman Loc: Colorado

Pardon me if I seem a little uncommonly dense this morning, just getting up and all, no coffee, but in your last statement, "truth be told..." are you referring generically or to a specific image? I'm not getting it, I guess. Help me out a little here. I want to make sure I'm clear. I think may be you're on to something but just want to make sure I'm with you. Thanks.

liv2paddle Loc: Wall, NJ

Generically..I can see where you might have interpreted that personally ..but that was not my intent. I see many many awlful pictures posted..and no one except for a few will say..my God man what were you thinking! Its a fine line we tread..and certainly no one wants to hurt feelings although I have seen some pretty cruel opinions posted..not many I am glad to say. Art is very personal..but there is a base line in which I think we can address with some ..like read the freakin manual..learn how to get a proper exposure..study composition by looking at images and seeing what grabs you..hold off on a critique until this is the very best you can do..we are getting bombarded with crap..perhaps because it is basically a newbie forum..not the likes of others where you have to be approved in order to even show your work. It is a tough medium..much like the sport of Hockey in the respect that first you have to learn to skate..then you can learn to play hockey. First learn the freakin camera..learn some basics of good photography..then ask for a critique. I don't see a lot of question specific to what did I do wrong..its more like FIX IT FOR ME. We have some very talented editors on the board..but even they are not magicians. How about try getting it right in camera. I see the critique as "did this image grab you? How can I improve my perspective..etc in order to make a this image better. I stopped by to learn..and will continue to read the threads etc as there is some good info being spread..but the critiques..forget it..waste of my time.