Nightski

I have been taking some graphic pics since Sharp Shooter has run his composition threads. Let me know what you think. I don't do much b&w so any helpful hints on that would be appreciated.

F/8
1/400 second exposure
ISO 200
150mm

At the Marina in Itasca State Park

(Download)

rook2c4 Loc: Philadelphia, PA USA

I like the composition and idea. Very contrasty, which works great for this scene.

I see you retained some color in the otherwise monochrome image - a slight brownish hue on some areas of the snow. Wouldn't perhaps a bluish hue instead have been more befitting? I think blue would give the snow a more "cleaner, fresher" appearance.

Graham Smith Loc: Cambridgeshire UK

I think you have let the snow go muddy, it should be blindingly white to contrast more starkly with the boats to accentuate the zigzag line.

Nightski

Okay ... let me work on it.

Billyspad Loc: The Philippines

In many ways I like the photograph. I would have liked it even more if it was a picture. Showing the F stops ISO etc and the mention of a composition thread shows you were taking it to meet a technical criteria which eliminates the heart and soul from the photograph. A picture should stir the emotions amuse make one wonder be seen to have moved the photographer in some way before they pressed the shutter.
We both admire Grahams work. Look at his bird picture. technically as imperfect as you will ever seem him get probably but his picture is alive. Chasing technical perfection and nothing else produces dead images.
Liken it to cars. Aston Martins are wonderful looking beautifully crafted vehicles, then stand one next to a Ferrari. The soul and the passion of the Ferrari positively screams at you. The technical excellence of the Aston leaves one admiring simply that.
Lots of books are written about composition etc and Im sure one can book up for lessons and attend lectures. Heart and soul is within everyone, you just have to let it show.
So to the photograph - the B/W conversion has worked on the boats not so much the snow as others have mentioned. If you used Silver Efex for the conversion try the drop down box that changes film types and ISO to improve the look of the snow. You may need one conversion shot for the boats and a different one for the snow and then in Photoshop with a layer mask brush the snow through.

Nightski

You have given me an idea with the heart and soul comment, Billy. Thanks.

jim hill Loc: Springfield, IL

Really good shot. I think the image could benefit from even more cropping. Get rid of the upper left clutter. Crop out the snow at the bottom which distracts from the strong graphic form above. Crop from the right to achieve a balance of the masses. Further in from the left to just touch the curve of boat #5.

This cropping would bring to view more of the downward thrust of the upper snow line. I am really poor at verbal directions. I would much rather be able to demonstrate. I do understand why this is not allowed in Critique.

For the presence of color - I don't see it. If it exists easy enough to get rid of. The image is strong enough and doesn't need any addition of hue. The textures are marvelous.

There are other textural things in regard to the snow. For instance, the snow probably has workable texture that could be brought out without making it muddy. I'm not a fan of taking such strong images to abstraction by whiteout and/or black-in. (My term.)

Billy makes a lot of sense.

Nightski

Thank you, Jim. I think instead of trying to process it anymore I will re-shoot with the idea in mind that I just want the just the boats in the frame. Thank you for recognizing that I meant this to be a graphic image, not a landscape shot. I struggle with graphic images because I fail to resist the temptation of including some landscape with them. This was a grab shot right before leaving the state park .. these boats catch my eye everytime I visit the park, and I thought what the heck. I had my 150-500 on and I didn't want to change the lens because I was going to hunt eagles. I think I would like to take this again with my 50mm.

Any suggestions about getting bright white snow and bringing out the detail? I can do one or the other with this image as shot, but it seems that I am failing to both at the same time.

jim hill Loc: Springfield, IL

I know how to give snow substance (texture) with B/W film. It takes a plus 2 exposure - sometimes a little more - from Zone 5 battleship gray. Development then would be a minus 2, on the average. One would need to experiment with their equipment to be able to do this consistently.

As far as digital is concerned I have not done snow. I would most probably begin with a snow layer (or, outline with your tool and a feathering of maybe 2 0r 3) and decease the brightness while increasing the contrast. There should be some point at which the snow begins to feel like snow with texture without turning gray. Not sure but I think this should NOT be worked on in jpeg.

Or, you might be able to get by with an exposure which places the snow on Zone 5 and the play with your
brightness/contrast controls.

We have not had much snow this year but I think it would be a good idea for me to try this for myself.

I thought I noticed some detail in the snow of your photograph. If its there then you might possibly be able to bring it up without making the snow gray.

Due to its strength I think this image deserves your best efforts. It has an ephemeral quality that brings it into the realm of supra-reality. This one goes beyond other boat pics I have seen on UHH. Most of them are just boats. Good boats but still just boats. This one is so much more.

lighthouse Loc: No Fixed Abode

Maybe a luminosity masked tone curve on either Brights 1 and/or 2?

Billyspad Loc: The Philippines

To whiten your snow and bring out detail try Nik Filters.
Nik Color Efex 4 >Detail Extractor. Play with the settings as it can increase noise dramatically.
To make snow bright try Glamour Glow and maybe Bleach By Pass. Look at Grahams Bench shot and you will see what Glamour Glow can do.
All the filters need using very carefully and ALWAYS less is better than more.
Also the filter is going to affect the whole image so you need to use with a layer mask generally so you only get the effect you are looking for on a selected area.
Then say nothing at all to convince folks your technical ability is indeed immense!!!!

Nightski

Hey Billy .. you know, I just went to redo this image and I really looked at it in a different way after all the feedback. I had my 150-500 on and even though I had it at 150, I think that focal length was too long. I think I didn't have enough DOF. I looked very closely at my snow and I think it is lacking detail. I definitely want to go back there and play with the boats some more. I'm going back anyway for a couple of other things.

I'm going to use my 50mm and just get the boats ... not anything else. I just want the zig zag lines and the contrast between grunge and pure white snow. I want it to be a purely graphical pic. Plus I am going to be very careful to get every crystal in focus, so I have detail in the snow. I'm excited to go do this again. :-)

I love the nik products. I particularly like viveza for bringing out detail. I did use the structure slider when converting to b&w and I also set points on just the snow increasing the brightness and structure. That structure slider works very well, but it just wasn't working on my snow and that's why I think I missed the focus on the snow.

Nightski

You are funny ... me ... luminosity mask? But hey .. I'm watching my creative live class on photoshop right now .. faithfully every night and he does cover luminosity masking. Perhaps after he explains all the tools to me, I will be able to understand taht Jimmy McIntyre fellow. :-D

Billyspad Loc: The Philippines

Just allow your heart to play its part this time. Snow is not a technical thing its an incredibly beautiful part of mother nature. Each crystal is a thing of wonder so look at that before allowing your brain to be sidetracked with crap like DOF etc. Carry one camera and one lens. Keep it simple and the sheer beauty of what your Creator gave you will shine through.
Important to take photos with a smile not a frown of concentration
Here endeth the lesson for today lol
Sincerely hope you enjoy your venture out into that cold inhospitable place you choose to live

Nightski

Billy .. God made the cold, inhospitable places and the gear nuts like me too. :-) I love every piece of my gear and it makes me smile all over when I've got it strapped on my back, knowing I can pull any lens out that hits my fancy and slap a filter on it or an intervalometer if I feel like it .. or not. I do take time to enjoy the beauty .. usually while I've got my frozen hands inside my clothing to thaw them out .. I just sit there and enjoy the beauty until I get the feeling back in my digits. :lol: