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Can't afford to waste $$ so which way to go
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Oct 21, 2014 11:02:53   #
sirlensalot Loc: Arizona
 
Without knowing more, the general cause of soft images is usually a slow shutter speed.
If you feel your shutter speed is adequate for the task, may consider sending the lens in with the camera to Canon and ask them to check and calibrate. Get a quote first.
Personally, for shooting outdoor soccer matches, the first lens I would be looking at would be the 70-200 f/4. You can pick up a non-IS version in the $500 range. This is an "L" lens and is arguably the best value for an L lens out there.
I have owned one for about 4 years and doubt I will ever give it up.

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Oct 21, 2014 11:42:03   #
alfeng Loc: Out where the West commences ...
 
UGUSA wrote:
Was into phtography (Canon A1's) back in the 80's and 90's then kinda moved away from it. Got back into it last year and, being happy with the brand, bought the Canon EOS T4i kit with the Canon 55-250mm lens.

...

I don't have a whole stack of $$ to throw away "testing" other lenses. Looked at various other lenses such as Sigma and Tamron but having lost touch with the industry these days, just have really no idea of which way to go to get a reasonably priced lens that produces sharp results.

Suggestions please.
Was into phtography (Canon A1's) back in the 80's ... (show quote)

FWIW. In the very distant past, I shot quite a bit of sports photography ...

The better that YOU understand the sport, the better your pics will probably be ...

In other words, YOU need to anticipate the action ...

And, pre-focus on a spot on the field/court/wherever ... which means, the manual focusing of a PRIME lens (yes, I am suggesting that you may as well attach the best 35mm camera's telephoto lens that you can afford which has the focal length you want to use + adapter on your Canon EOS) will probably give you the best results AFTER you learn to anticipate the action rather than having the camera follow the random action on the field.

Of course, you don't have to use a vintage 35mm camera lens, but (IMO) if YOU are manually focusing then you will get more-bang-for-your-buck if you buy a vintage, single focal length lens than either a "new" Prime lens OR a zoom lens.

In other words, you probably are not going to be able to achieve Sports Illustrated quality images if you continue to allow the camera body to focus a comparatively inexpensive zoom lens.


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Oct 21, 2014 11:51:56   #
tbetress Loc: Skippack, Pa
 
I have a Sigma 18-250 and absolutely love it.
Looking in to getting one for my son.
Shooting with Canon T5i and Canon 40D.

Great pics with this lens and a good walk around lens

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Oct 21, 2014 12:25:43   #
RRS Loc: Not sure
 
UGUSA wrote:
Was into phtography (Canon A1's) back in the 80's and 90's then kinda moved away from it. Got back into it last year and, being happy with the brand, bought the Canon EOS T4i kit with the Canon 55-250mm lens.

Being completely new to digital photgraphy I purchased a couple of books (suggested by this site) but try as I may, I just can't get anything like what I consider good pics from the subject lens. The pics always seem to come out soft and I want nice sharp pics even at full tele.

Looked at various reviews and it seems this lens has a reputation of being a "kit lens" and therefore not that great a performer.

I don't have a whole stack of $$ to throw away "testing" other lenses. Looked at various other lenses such as Sigma and Tamron but having lost touch with the industry these days, just have really no idea of which way to go to get a reasonably priced lens that produces sharp results.

Suggestions please.
Was into phtography (Canon A1's) back in the 80's ... (show quote)


To start with why don't you post one of your "soft" shots. I don't think that auto everything is the way to go. Why let the camera think for you? Try manual and control your focus. You may not have to buy a new lens if some of the problems and due to how you shoot.

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Oct 21, 2014 12:27:14   #
Dutzie Loc: I'd like to know
 
UGUSA wrote:
Was into phtography (Canon A1's) back in the 80's and 90's then kinda moved away from it. Got back into it last year and, being happy with the brand, bought the Canon EOS T4i kit with the Canon 55-250mm lens.

Being completely new to digital photgraphy I purchased a couple of books (suggested by this site) but try as I may, I just can't get anything like what I consider good pics from the subject lens. The pics always seem to come out soft and I want nice sharp pics even at full tele.

Looked at various reviews and it seems this lens has a reputation of being a "kit lens" and therefore not that great a performer.

I don't have a whole stack of $$ to throw away "testing" other lenses. Looked at various other lenses such as Sigma and Tamron but having lost touch with the industry these days, just have really no idea of which way to go to get a reasonably priced lens that produces sharp results.

Suggestions please.
Was into phtography (Canon A1's) back in the 80's ... (show quote)


I had a D60 with the "kit" lens. It was what I could afford. I have traded it for a D6 and a 50mm 1.4 prime Canon lens. The clarity is startling between two systems. You may never be happy with the lesser camera and lens. Rent a "FF" rig with a prime lens and you will see what I'm talking about. The zoom lens arn't the way to go if you want sharp, clear photos. I also have a Canon 40 - 70 2.8fL zoom. Isnt as sharp as the prime 1.4 50mm. It is head and sholders above the other Canon zoom I had. In my openion the "L" Canon lenses are the best for that kind of money. The price for all this stuff is about 2 to 4 times what a Kit lens set up is. If i'd started with the higher cost spread I'd be money ahead, and knowing where I was in the grand scheme of things. You get what you pay for. It really applies in this field.

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Oct 21, 2014 13:07:25   #
mwsilvers Loc: Central New Jersey
 
RRS wrote:
To start with why don't you post one of your "soft" shots. I don't think that auto everything is the way to go. Why let the camera think for you? Try manual and control your focus. You may not have to buy a new lens if some of the problems and due to how you shoot.


That's exactly what I suggested early on in the thread. I believe you are the only other person to suggest it so far, which really amazes me. We have no idea whether the issue is the lens, the lighting , slow shutter speed. Some errant camera setting or poor technique. An attached high resolution image with "store original" checked would go a long way to resolve the OP's problem.

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Oct 21, 2014 13:07:43   #
Pepsiman Loc: New York City
 
mdsiamese wrote:
It may be your lens, but then again it may not. Read this article from Ken Rockwell:
http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/unsharp.htm

Rule out all of the non-lens things that could cause softness before spending $$ on a new lens. But I'm definitely in the camp of spending what you need to spend to get what you want and not settling for cheap. If you want sharp, then read lens reviews and get what you want. It will be worth it when you see the results.

Thanks for posting :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

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Oct 21, 2014 14:41:58   #
UGUSA
 
lighthouse wrote:
Yes, the Canon kit lenses are nowhere near as well regarded as the Nikon kit lenses.
So before you race out and spend any more money, next game, try this.
ISO 800
Focal length 200mm (backed off a bit the lens will be sharper)
F/5.6
aperture priority
solid photo taking technique.
If on a tripod, don't use IS.
If not on a tripod, do use IS.
Don't expect any shot slower than 1/400th sec to be supersharp.
IS is to help camera movement, not subject movement.


Good advice, thanks!

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Oct 21, 2014 14:43:09   #
gessman Loc: Colorado
 
lighthouse wrote:
http://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-254014-1.html


You may be able find those old lens used at Keh.com, bhphoto.com, and Adorama.com plus a variety of other places but perhaps the best place is on ebay. You can usually get them on ebay with an old camera like the EOS 650 attached cheaper than you can buy one of the lens alone. If you're lucky, you can find a 650 with all three lens, a bag, flash, and maybe even a tripod for under $150 or way less if you're slick with ebay bidding.

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Oct 21, 2014 15:05:54   #
UGUSA
 
mwsilvers wrote:
That's exactly what I suggested early on in the thread. I believe you are the only other person to suggest it so far, which really amazes me. We have no idea whether the issue is the lens, the lighting , slow shutter speed. Some errant camera setting or poor technique. An attached high resolution image with "store original" checked would go a long way to resolve the OP's problem.


Ok so here's the best example I still have and it's worth noting that I have acheived much better results with this lens when set on a tripod, in the backyard.....details......

AE; 1/320; f5.6; ISO 200; 250mm; Fine; AI focus; AF area selected = manual, single point under right elbow.


(Download)

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Oct 21, 2014 15:18:39   #
lighthouse Loc: No Fixed Abode
 
UGUSA wrote:
Ok so here's the best example I still have and it's worth noting that I have acheived much better results with this lens when set on a tripod, in the backyard.....details......

AE; 1/320; f5.6; ISO 200; 250mm; Fine; AI focus; AF area selected = manual, single point under right elbow.


I see absolutely no problem that you were talking about, apart from very slight movement blur caused by the player himself, not your technique or the lens.
ISO 400 and 1/640th sec would have fixed that.
ISO 800 and 1/1000th & F/7.1 would have meant you didn't even have to think about it.

We didn't need the best example of photo.

We needed the best example of the problems you were experiencing.

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Oct 21, 2014 15:26:00   #
amfoto1 Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA
 
It's always easiest to blame the gear when there appears to be a problem... But that's usually not where the fault lies.

It is possible the lens is faulty... out of calibration or has a de-centered element. But these issues are rare.

The EF-S 55-250mm is not known to be a "problem" lens... actually is quite good for the money (even if rather lightly built, i.e. "plasticky" )... especially in the two most recent "IS II" and "STM" versions. I didn't see any reference to which version you have... But these two latest ones are both currently available and improved upon the original a little bit in terms of image quality. The STM version basically is the latest and greatest with little changes from the IS II other than it uses a modestly improved (quieter and smoother) autofocus drive system.

Most common problems are user errors or poor/incorrect techniques...

1. Do you have a "protection" filter on the lens? If so, remove it and try the lens without it. Also spend a few $ for the proper, fitted lens hood. The hood will do a better job protecting the lens, can't hurt actually might even help image quality, and may even help auto focus performance. If you must use a "protection" filter, get a good, multi-coated one.

2. All versions of the 55-250 haves IS so you can use a little slower shutter speeds so long as you leave IS turned on. Without IS, on your camera you'd actually need around 1/400 minimum shutter speed to handhold a lens at the 250mm focal length setting. People differ in their ability to hold a steady shot... so you might be able to get by a little slower with care, or may need a faster shutter speed if your hands aren't very steady.

With IS on, you should be able to handhold it at 1/100, maybe even 1/50, as far as camera shake is concerned.

However, IS cannot do anything at all to prevent subject movement blur. You are going to need 1/400 or better to stop the movement of feet and the ball shooting soccer. I'd try for upwards of 1/500 or 1/640 or 1/800, to be sure to stop movement... faster is better so don't be afraid to use 1/1000 or faster if possible.

Out in broad sunshine I'd recommend ISO 400 or 800... in shade or on a fairly overcast day, use ISO 1600.... all to be sure your shutter speed is fast enough to capture action shots.

Inside and for night sports photography "under the lights", even higher ISOs help (3200 and 6400), but these always require more work in post processing to rein in image noise. I'll only shoot RAW, am very careful to avoid underexposure and plan to do a little to a lot of extra work on the images after the fact. Generally speaking much more expensive and heavier gear is needed, too... f2.8 and faster lenses for example.

3. Shooting too fast, not allowing autofocus time to acquire the subject or trying to track fast moving subjects adds difficulty. A USM lens is both faster acquiring and better at tracking movement. USM focus drive becomes even more important in low light situations.

4. Too much automation... setting the camera to the "Sports" scene mode, I have no idea (never use it) how this sets up autofocus, what shutter speeds and ISO the camera forces/limits you to use, etc. I know it will allow JPEGs only and am betting it puts it in AI Focus mode and All Points/Auto Selection pattern, neither of which I will use for sports photography.

When I'm shooting sports I use AI Servo and Single Point/Manual Selection. This way, the camera and lens operate as quickly as possible and do their best tracking moving subjects, but I have to do my part as the photographer and keep the AF point (usually just the center one, which is more sensitive than others on many Canon cameras) right where I want the camera to focus.

I also use Back Button Focusing, to separate focus from the shutter button and puts AF more fully under my control. It takes a little practice, but soon becomes second nature to use this technique. It's especially popular among sports photographers. http://www.learn.usa.canon.com/resources/articles/2011/backbutton_af_article.shtml for more info.

5. Massive over magnification of your images when viewing them on your computer is another common mistake. The T4i is an 18MP camera. If you view images at 100% on most computers monitors, assuming that the monitor is set to it's native resolution, that's like viewing the image printed five feet wide, from about 18" away. (The Ken Rockwell article linked above is pretty old now, referring to 2006 image resolutions and some other now-defunct technologies.)

Back off to 50%... or to the actual size you'll be printing which will probably be more like 33%, 25% or even less. Zoom in to high magnifications for retouching, if needed... but not for image evaluation. You can end up simply looking at the image too enlarged, and thus be overly critical of it.

Digital images typically need some sharpening, but that usually should only be done once the image has been re-sized for it's final, intended use.

6. If every image you look at appears soft... it might be your computer monitor. There are different qualities among monitors, too. Consumer grade monitors aren't all that great (not to mention they usually are off on color and way, way off on brightness, too). I use a graphics quality IPS monitor that's great for photos (but lousy for games!)

7. Using auto focus well takes some practice. Watch the three videos beginning with this one http://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/photography/tips-solutions/look-canon-autofocus-system-part-1 to learn how it works. I don't believe your camera is mentioned, but the 50D is and it's AF system is virtually identical to what's in your T4i.

After viewing those, it will take some practice.

You'd do better shooting sports action with USM lenses (faster focusing and better tracking), but should be able to do pretty well even what you've already got. IMO, the minimum cost of "stepping up" is a Canon EF 70-300mm IS USM at about $650. That would be a good "daytime" lens. If you want to shoot sports in lower light (indoors or evenings "under the lights" ) you'll need a lens with larger aperture such as EF 70-200/4L IS USM ($1300) or, even better, EF 70-200/2.8L IS II USM ($2300). As you can see, the "cost to play" goes up rapidly, as the shooting situation gets more demanding!

Avoid "micro motor" Canon and third party lenses for any sort of action photography. The Canon EF 50/1.8 is the company's cheapest lens and may be fine for portraiture, but it is lousy for sports. It's AF is too slow and erratic. A Canon EF 50/1.4 or 85/1.8 each cost about 3X as much, but both of them have USM that's faster focusing and much better tracking.

Only blame your equipment once you have eliminated all the other possibilities.

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Oct 21, 2014 15:27:27   #
gessman Loc: Colorado
 
UGUSA wrote:
Ok so here's the best example I still have and it's worth noting that I have acheived much better results with this lens when set on a tripod, in the backyard.....details......

AE; 1/320; f5.6; ISO 200; 250mm; Fine; AI focus; AF area selected = manual, single point under right elbow.


I think I'd start by hanging a newspaper or poster with fine lines on it on a wall or fence, mount the camera on a tripod, use a remote release and see if your lens is focusing correctly. If it's blurred, google micro-adjust test and perform it or just put a ruler down flat and shoot down on it at a 45 deg angle with shallow depth of field, wide open lens, and see if the center target you picked is clear or if it's clearer above or below that target. That'll let you know if your equipment needs adjusting or not.

In your picture the focus is off and depth of field is too shallow. Looks like near perfect focus on the inside of that left leg between knee and bottom of foot. Lens looks pretty sharp there actually. I'd auto focus single point on the head regardless of everything else, kick up my iso to about 800 and go up to f/8 aperture preferred or use auto-iso, or finally, use shutter preferred on 1/500th or 1/1000th whichever I needed to keep my aperture at f/8 or above, auto iso and probably burst mode. Any one of those should give you a good starting point. Practice on a moving target before game-time to see what type settings work best in game-time light.

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Oct 21, 2014 15:52:31   #
amfoto1 Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA
 
UGUSA wrote:
Ok so here's the best example I still have and it's worth noting that I have acheived much better results with this lens when set on a tripod, in the backyard.....details......

AE; 1/320; f5.6; ISO 200; 250mm; Fine; AI focus; AF area selected = manual, single point under right elbow.


Let's break it down...

AE? - Okay, which Auto Exposure mode... You're camera has three:

- Av or "aperture priority" (where you set the aperture and ISO, the camera chooses a shutter speed based on that)

- Tv or "shutter priority" (where you set the shutter speed and ISO, the camera chooses the shutter speed based on those)

- P or "program" (where you set the ISO and the camera sets both shutter speed and aperture). '

Many people use Tv for sports, just to be sure insure fast enough shutter speed. Personally I use Av, then keep an eye on my shutter speeds.

Or, if lighting conditions are pretty stable, use M and set everything yourself.

If, by AE you mean you are selecting the "Sports" (Running Man) Scene mode, that means you are stuck with all those settings that some programmer in Japan decided were "correct" for sports photography, and also limits you to shooting JPEGs only (no RAW), as well as the focus method and pattern being used.

1/320 is marginally slow to stop the action in sports photography. Using such a low ISO forced this... There's no reason to use such a low ISO!

f5.6, if at one of the longer focal lengths of your zoom, this probably means the largest possible aperture of your lens... most lenses aren't at their best "wide open". It can help with sharpness if you can stop down a little.

ISO 200... There's no good reason to use such a low ISO. There is very little difference in the image quality of the 18MP Canons from ISO 100 through 800, and only very minor noise at 1600. I use minimum of ISO 400 on mine... and shot a sporting event on Sunday entirely at 1600... others I've shot at 3200 and even occasionally 6400.

AI Focus... isn't really a focus mode at all. This is just more automation and in my experience, tends to backfire on you. Honestly, I haven't even tried it in ten years or more... but when I did my "missed focus" percentage went way, way up. The reason is that with AI Focus the camera is supposed to detect whether or not the subject is moving, and then switch to use One Shot (stationary subjects) or AI Servo (moving subjects). AI Focus seems to cause a brief delay while it's deciding what mode to use... and sometimes seems to choose wrong.

Instead, for sports set your camera to AI Servo. This is continuous focus, to track moving subjects. It also can be used with stationary subjects, but if you ever use focus & recompose techniques, have to use Back Button Focusing too.

Single Point is good... Just be cautious letting the AF point slip off the subject (under the elbow). AF points are a little larger than what's shown in the viewfinder, but if you get too far off target, the camera will focus on the background instead. It's better to zoom out slightly, then crop the image later in post-processing, rather than try to frame the subject so tightly in the viewfinder that it forces your AF point off target. With 18MP camera, you should have plenty of resolution to allow a little careful cropping.

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Oct 21, 2014 15:58:43   #
G Brown Loc: Sunny Bognor Regis West Sussex UK
 
I have both Canon and Sony. Sony is renown for being sharp Canon is a softer in-camera focus...you can dial it up in settings. It used to drive me crazy. As a novice to the whole photography thing I just learned to post process clarity a little or use a high pass sharpening technique. However, I am a novice and the discussions around different F stop for the same scene is something that I can do with landscapes but struggle with when shooting moving things as I can't flick through F stops quickly enough to 'get lucky'.

I have both The 18-55 kit lens and a nifty 50 F1.8 there is absolutely nothing wrong with the kit lens....its technique.

George

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